Scottish Independence vote..

[Eric Cartman]

It doesn't upset me unduly. I just like to keep exchanges civil.

Oh well I don't, there is the problem then.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Oh well I don't, there is the problem then.

Fair dinkum, old fruit. We can agree to disagree

[JamesWales]

I’m open minded on it all.

In practice, I think not one of Scotlands problems is caused by Westminster and Scotland has a huge range of powers as it is. They also have considerable tax raising powers, so whilst they don’t control the benefits system, she could raise income tax and halve council tax, or give a payout to all lower income households etc. The SNP know this, but they choose to blame Westminster for nearly everything anyway, rarely with much basis in the truth.

Their record, as I understand it, is mixed, which is fair enough. I am never one to think the Tories, Labour or SNP or anyone else are all bad or all good and there are many competent SNP politicians and councils.

I dislike nationalism on principle, but I think it’s fair enough that if someone feels Scottish only, they may want independence. But equally, many feel Scottish and British and that creates an identity angle to it all that can’t be wished away. That’s the ‘heart’ side of the argument.

I would vote to stay in the UK, mainly because I think Scotland has a good deal. It pays in less than it receives and would have to grapple with a huge budget deficit and lenders would be less inclined to plug that gap than they would with the UK. I think they would enter a period of significant austerity.

That said, it would open opportunities to out compete the UK and Scotland is a significant financial centre in it’s own right. Also, on things like energy it would be a very considerable mass exporter, albeit having had to compensate the UK for their infrastructure first.

On balance I’m pro devotion, but opposed to independence so I hope they vote No.

[Dorcus]

I’m open minded on it all.

In practice, I think not one of Scotlands problems is caused by Westminster and Scotland has a huge range of powers as it is. They also have considerable tax raising powers, so whilst they don’t control the benefits system, she could raise income tax and halve council tax, or give a payout to all lower income households etc. The SNP know this, but they choose to blame Westminster for nearly everything anyway, rarely with much basis in the truth.

Their record, as I understand it, is mixed, which is fair enough. I am never one to think the Tories, Labour or SNP or anyone else are all bad or all good and there are many competent SNP politicians and councils.

I dislike nationalism on principle, but I think it’s fair enough that if someone feels Scottish only, they may want independence. But equally, many feel Scottish and British and that creates an identity angle to it all that can’t be wished away. That’s the ‘heart’ side of the argument.

I would vote to stay in the UK, mainly because I think Scotland has a good deal. It pays in less than it receives and would have to grapple with a huge budget deficit and lenders would be less inclined to plug that gap than they would with the UK. I think they would enter a period of significant austerity.

That said, it would open opportunities to out compete the UK and Scotland is a significant financial centre in it’s own right. Also, on things like energy it would be a very considerable mass exporter, albeit having had to compensate the UK for their infrastructure first.

On balance I’m pro devotion, but opposed to independence so I hope they vote No.

Pro devotion to the Tories and UKIP?

[life on mars]

Have you not seen the British deficit/debt?

And the UK probably has the better chance of pulling that back , I very much doubt Scotland could on their own .

[HiVis]

That's not irony - are you sure you know what it means?

There is no contradiction here either, it is perfectly reasonable to think that one union is beneficial to you and another not or no longer is.

Nobody is saying that there is "irony" in Ukraine wanting to leave the USSR and later wanting to join the EU?

Using Ukraine is a classic example of a strawman. You're comparing a dictatorship with a democratic institution. You cannot directly relate leaving the UK/joining the EU to what you have proposed.

As for Wales, we currently have more representation in the UK Parliament than we would in the EU Parliament, so I'm not really sure we'd be better off or have as much of a voice as we have now. We've also seen the cluster**** that's the Northern Ireland protocol...imagine what would happen if the rump UK didn't have to cater for both sides (which is the case for Wales as we don't have 17th century sectarian lines throughout our society)

I wasn't convinced leaving the EU was sensible and I'm not convinced leaving the UK would be either.

[HiVis]

Have you not seen the British deficit/debt?

Yes. What is your point? In the past 20 years we've had the financial crash and Covid. Is there any wonder the debt has risen. The deficit is now starting to come down so in real terms the debt will fall.

I always thought the left were happy for government borrowing if it meant better benefits and services. during Covid this current Tory government actually went centre left on us with the free money they were giving away.

Your comments go to show its not about borrowing etc, its about being against the politics of your adversary.