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Thread: Train strikes

  1. #81

    Re: Train strikes


  2. #82

    Re: Train strikes

    Still no one is saying why they would vote for this Government I see.

  3. #83

    Re: Train strikes

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Labour certainly arenít going to win the one in Devon.
    Probably the outgoing MP was watching tractor porn in the house of commons, there is sure to be a protest backlash!

  4. #84

    Re: Train strikes

    Quote Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue View Post
    Probably the outgoing MP was watching tractor porn in the house of commons, there is sure to be a protest backlash!
    It’ll go to the Lib Dems if there is though.

  5. #85

    Re: Train strikes

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    It’ll go to the Lib Dems if there is though.
    Oh yes true!

  6. #86

    Re: Train strikes

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Talk about naive! Tomorrow, Labour need to get anything from 1,500 to 3,000 people who did not vote for them in 2019 in Wakefield to do so this time - do you really think that ďorganisingĒ a national rail strike is a good way to do that? Maybe thatís why Labour are losing General Elections - they should organise a General Strike for the one in 2024
    If Labour think that having a rail strike now is so bad, why did 25 of its MPís join in on the front row of the march supporting it ? I think that you are the naive one if you think Labour is doing anything but wringing their hands in glee at the prospect. They would actually have to talk about their own non existent policies otherwise.

  7. #87

    Re: Train strikes

    Quote Originally Posted by dml1954 View Post
    If Labour think that having a rail strike now is so bad, why did 25 of its MP’s join in on the front row of the march supporting it ? I think that you are the naive one if you think Labour is doing anything but wringing their hands in glee at the prospect. They would actually have to talk about their own non existent policies otherwise.
    I suggest you look up the meaning of “wringing their hands”, you don’t do it in glee. You really don’t get it do you, why do you think Starmer is, first, telling the shadow cabinet not to join picket lines and, second, so reluctant to back the strike? It’s because the strikes are a subject that puts his party on the defensive, just like Partygate, the cost of living crisis and stacks of other things I could mention puts the Tories on the back foot.

  8. #88

    Re: Train strikes

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesWales View Post
    Sorry, but there's a lot of populist left-wing tropes and inaccuracies here.

    1 / The wrong side of history comment is a reference to the fact that train use has fallen off a cliff (due to covid) and will in all probability never be the same again. If people want to work from home more, the result is a declining public transport. It's one of the reasons I caution against WFH.

    2 / Of course, inflation always occurs, normally at a far lower level than now however.

    3 / The wealth gap depends on how you look at it, but the average wage and personal tax allowance has risen far quicker under the current administration than the last one. The top rate of tax is also higher (45% v 40%) which rather undermines your party political point about the Tories wanting the gap to grow etc. That said, the pandemic and WFH is exacerbating the wealth gap considerably.

    4 / Pay shouldn't be in line with inflation, it should ideally be above it. But sometimes inflation spikes, typically due to wars or other 'acts of god' and when it's caused by that its sometimes the case that we need to ride it out. Countering it with 10% pay rises across the board will probably exacerbate the problem.

    5 / I agree, Mick Lynch is impressive, as was Bob Crow, but he has a job to try and protect his members, the govt' has to try and protect the entire country, and the two don't always align. Re Brexit - the RMT were prominent leave campaigners.

    6 / Network Rail is publicly owned - what they make in profit goes back into the railways. The dispute is with Train operators.

    Happy to be corrected on any of that. The reality, unfortunately is that very very little of the current inflation rate is caused by UK based policy decisions and thus much of it cannot be solved in that way. Political opponents will exploit the situation, but if you want the problem solved, you have to diagnose it properly. Inflation is happening near everywhere, so clearly it isn't caused by the Tories.

    Maybe the union will win. Maybe it won't, but giving the country a 10% pay rise to solve a temporary spike in inflation is not the answer, unfortunately. I wish it was, but it isn't.
    We are told to not ask for more pay, while Boris is going to remove caps on the banker's bonuses.

    We all need to "suck it up", while MPs pay has increased by 20% in the last 10 years. Network Rail and rail executives take home millions. Most of the train companies make millions, and they are all privately owned.

    Re wealth inequality: https://www.ft.com/content/d52743ca-...f-8281230a21b5
    That's the FT, not some left wing rag.

    UK inflation rates have been 2.5%, 2.3%, 1.74%, 0.99% and now 10% plus. The train staff have had a 0% increase in this time. They're also threatened with fire and rehire. If NR are publicly owned, and make 500m profit, surely they can pay their staff a decent wage?

    The Tories are happy to give 11bn and plus to their mates. They've wasted billions more on mismanagement. Rishi Sunak is absolute as useful as a chocolate fire guard when it comes to the finances of this country. They have done nothing to help the economy, only feed off it like vultures. Which is Sunak's MO. That's how he made his money in the first place.

    if anyone votes Tory in 2024, they need their heads checking or they're filthy rich. And by the way, DML is on your side.

  9. #89

    Re: Train strikes

    Quote Originally Posted by dml1954 View Post
    If Labour think that having a rail strike now is so bad, why did 25 of its MP’s join in on the front row of the march supporting it ? I think that you are the naive one if you think Labour is doing anything but wringing their hands in glee at the prospect. They would actually have to talk about their own non existent policies otherwise.
    It comes as no surprise that you have a slavish and sycophantic adherence to this Tory government as much as you do to the management of Cardiff City!

    You are the perfect drone that the likes of Johnson, Rees Mogg, Patel, et al rely on. Lynton Crosby would love you, as I'm sure would Vincent Tan.

    You seem incapable of any independent thought, a cap doffing worker bee obedient to your master.

    Here's a tip. You can occasionally be critical of your political party, football team, boss, etc. In fact it's healthy to do so.

  10. #90

    Re: Train strikes

    I think the strikes are organised you easily see and hear that from the various Union Leaders who are not dismissing the chance of joined up strike tactics this summer .

    Feeding of the world's issue and pandemic is a clever but thoughtless tactic , some folk are just about adjusting post lockdown Covid they now face more restrictions from the working forces that were paid 100% in pay during Covid many working from home ..


    The Tories are attempting to link it Starmer is a tactic to expose the uneasy alliance within the Labour Party..

    Labour MP's on picket lines won't help the current leadership, it will though benefit the more left leaning members waiting to ditch Sir Kier and instal a watered down Corbyn candidate..

    Teachers now balloting for inflation plus rises .. one union leader mentioned 21% ??

    Fill yer boots time, guess who will pay for all these rises ??

    Public sector inflation plus rises will cost 20 to 25 billion pa

  11. #91

    Re: Train strikes

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    I think the strikes are organised you easily see and hear that from the various Union Leaders who are not dismissing the chance of joined up strike tactics this summer .

    Feeding of the world's issue and pandemic is a clever but thoughtless tactic , some folk are just about adjusting post lockdown Covid they now face more restrictions from the working forces that were paid 100% in pay during Covid many working from home ..


    The Tories are attempting to link it Starmer is a tactic to expose the uneasy alliance within the Labour Party..

    Labour MP's on picket lines won't help the current leadership, it will though benefit the more left leaning members waiting to ditch Sir Kier and instal a watered down Corbyn candidate..

    Teachers now balloting for inflation plus rises .. one union leader mentioned 21% ??

    Fill yer boots time, guess who will pay for all these rises ??

    Public sector inflation plus rises will cost 20 to 25 billion pa

    He's between a rock and a hard place a lot of hardline lefties are reminding him of the name of the party and how it was founded, the problem is he is trying to move away from Corbyn type politics and become more electable, which will continue to split the labour supporters.

  12. #92

    Re: Train strikes

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Still no one is saying why they would vote for this Government I see.
    Mick Lynch has I think.

    https://twitter.com/jrc1921/status/1...223Kqh35g&s=19

  13. #93

    Re: Train strikes

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesWales View Post
    Pay shouldn't be in line with inflation, it should ideally be above it. But sometimes inflation spikes, typically due to wars or other 'acts of god' and when it's caused by that its sometimes the case that we need to ride it out. Countering it with 10% pay rises across the board will probably exacerbate the problem.
    Yet for around a decade, most low paid workers have never had a rise in line with inflation. Very few who work in the public sector have had rises in line with inflation. They were victims of Osborne and Cameron trying to save the public purse. Millions of people have seen costs rise while their wages haven't matched that for a decade or so. Now inflation is going through the roof while wages don't catch up. FFS, how much longer to working people have to "ride this out"?

  14. #94

    Re: Train strikes

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    Yet for around a decade, most low paid workers have never had a rise in line with inflation. Very few who work in the public sector have had rises in line with inflation. They were victims of Osborne and Cameron trying to save the public purse. Millions of people have seen costs rise while their wages haven't matched that for a decade or so. Now inflation is going through the roof while wages don't catch up. FFS, how much longer to working people have to "ride this out"?
    Forever. Just suck it up and take the scraps.

  15. #95

    Re: Train strikes

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    Yet for around a decade, most low paid workers have never had a rise in line with inflation. Very few who work in the public sector have had rises in line with inflation. They were victims of Osborne and Cameron trying to save the public purse. Millions of people have seen costs rise while their wages haven't matched that for a decade or so. Now inflation is going through the roof while wages don't catch up. FFS, how much longer to working people have to "ride this out"?
    How much longer are so many of those directly affected by the Tories prepared to not vote against them or not even vote at all ?

    The electorate are stupid

    If they shaped up the 35 percent who vote tory and let them run the country would be leathered

    It's not helped by starmer and whoever leads the liberals being a waste of time mind but still .....

  16. #96

    Re: Train strikes

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    Yet for around a decade, most low paid workers have never had a rise in line with inflation. Very few who work in the public sector have had rises in line with inflation. They were victims of Osborne and Cameron trying to save the public purse. Millions of people have seen costs rise while their wages haven't matched that for a decade or so. Now inflation is going through the roof while wages don't catch up. FFS, how much longer to working people have to "ride this out"?
    Well, sorry to bring some facts to the table, but the minimum wage was £6.19 in 2012. It's £9.50 now. Thats an increase of 53%.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation..._Wage_Act_1998

    We can add a little from the last few months, but Inflation from 2012 to 2021 was 25%.
    https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/mone...ion-calculator

    No one disputes the global financial crisis, then a pandemic then a war in Europe don't impact on things. They do. It's been fkn tough, but the solution isn't to give everyone 10% more money. You may want to support the union on ideological ground but you know that in your heart it isn't the answer for the country as a whole.

  17. #97

    Re: Train strikes

    The thing is with the Tories is that they still blame Labour for what was a worldwide financial crisis 14 years ago?

    But when they are told what about these utter feck ups on your watch .......they blame it on covid or Ukraine

    They are a bunch of oily chancers

    If murder was legal I would take them all out

  18. #98

    Re: Train strikes

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    The thing is with the Tories is that they still blame Labour for what was a worldwide financial crisis 14 years ago?

    But when they are told what about these utter feck ups on your watch .......they blame it on covid or Ukraine

    They are a bunch of oily chancers

    If murder was legal I would take them all out
    Sludge, inflation in Belgium is currently 9%. In Greece it's 11%, in Holland 8.8%. In Spain 8.7%. Germany 8%. In Poland it's 14%. Czech Republic, 16%! Nearly all of these are 40,50 year highs.
    https://tradingeconomics.com/country...ntinent=europe

    Is it the Tories causing this as well? Quite obviously anyone with half a brain can see it isn't. So if you genuinely care about the issue, it's worth working out whats causing it. If it's just a left-wing circle jerk people are after, then crack on, but you won't solve the problem you profess to care about whilst doing it.

    Just blaming the government for inflation rising is like just thanking them when it falls again. It's not like nothing can be done about it, but it's limited what can be achieved, and what has been done (£150 payments, forthcoming £350 payments, increases in personal allowance etc) put money in peoples pockets without changing the headline inflation figure anyway - could be argued it has helped fuel it I guess, but you can't win if thats the case.

  19. #99

    Re: Train strikes

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesWales View Post
    Well, sorry to bring some facts to the table, but the minimum wage was £6.19 in 2012. It's £9.50 now. Thats an increase of 53%.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation..._Wage_Act_1998

    We can add a little from the last few months, but Inflation from 2012 to 2021 was 25%.
    https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/mone...ion-calculator.
    For a start, let's not start putting words in my mouth. Not at any stage did I say to give everyone 10%, neither did I offer support for the union. What I did ask was how much longer have working people got to "ride it out". You were rather reluctant to offer an opinion on this.

    As for your stats on the minimum wage, good that there has been such an increase, but given that the minimum wage was so low to begin with, it needed to grow quickly. It also brings people into paying income tax, even with the rise in the personal allowance, so give with one hand, take away with the other.

    I notice you had no response to public sector workers, nurses, teachers etc who have had their wages virtually frozen for a decade. Do you support them in their struggles against inflation or not?

  20. #100

    Re: Train strikes

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesWales View Post
    Sludge, inflation in Belgium is currently 9%. In Greece it's 11%, in Holland 8.8%. In Spain 8.7%. Germany 8%. In Poland it's 14%. Czech Republic, 16%! Nearly all of these are 40,50 year highs.
    https://tradingeconomics.com/country...ntinent=europe

    Is it the Tories causing this as well? Quite obviously anyone with half a brain can see it isn't. So if you genuinely care about the issue, it's worth working out whats causing it. If it's just a left-wing circle jerk people are after, then crack on, but you won't solve the problem you profess to care about whilst doing it.

    Just blaming the government for inflation rising is like just thanking them when it falls again. It's not like nothing can be done about it, but it's limited what can be achieved, and what has been done (£150 payments, forthcoming £350 payments, increases in personal allowance etc) put money in peoples pockets without changing the headline inflation figure anyway - could be argued it has helped fuel it I guess, but you can't win if thats the case.
    The crisis the Tories blamed Labour for was a worldwide crisis in the same way this current euro wide inflation hike is a country wide crisis

    The Tories are in charge and if and political gain can be made by poking a stick in them , give me a stick

    They don't like the boot being on the other foot

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