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I'm amazed. I've been waiting for a thread about the train strikes for some time now but there is absolutely nothing.
We have threads on here about just about everything from partygate to immigration to curry gate, Scottish independence, anything, even football occasionally, but regarding the train strikes...nothing!
The silence is almost deafening!
why is that? Shirly someone must have an opinion on it!
What's yours?Originally Posted by xsnaggle
It doesn't affect me really, but I do love the arguments!
I thought the same! Thought I was going mad at the lack of alignment between CCMB and the six o clock news..
The UK usage is terrible with only 10% using the train to commute, in Wales it's only 3% of the population comute on by train. I have been one of those 3% in the past and it wasn't too bad for me as a way of getting into the City Centre, it was certainly cheaper than parking.
By gong on strike those 3% will get another chance to work from home, they or there employers might think actually this works meaning it could reduce to 2.something.
I have been a union member in every job, but striking should be a last resort, I dont think they will win the public over with this and I think this strike was a mistake.
I take it that when the Government were talking about a high wage economy a few months back, they meant for the bankers and finance companies MDs whose wages cap they’re proposing lifting today?
Next you'll say that levelling up is a nothing slogan at best, and a lie at worst, as well
Johnson says we shouldn't ask for a wage rise, as it'll rise prices. So the high wage economy isn't for the working man.
Ha ha, nail on head!
The average rail workers wage is £33k, the average train drivers wage is £50k+.
This strike doesn't include train drivers so the average earnings of those striking is considerably less than £33k.
Train drivers have good wages due to strong union representation. Rather than criticising those that strike, why not support workers in their efforts for better pay. Their win is our win surely?
If the unions want to get the public on side, do what the Japanese bus drivers did. When they went on strike they carried on working but refused to take fares, ensuring the public were not affected but the employers were.
Although I do have some sympathy with Grant Schapps and the idea that working practices need to modernise, this invariably means jobs losses. The government appear to use this excuse to refuse any kind of eaningful negotiation, whereas if the employer could agree to a reduction in staff numbers over years through natural wastage, the unions and its members would be onside.
With the uncertainty of what services will be running tomorrow and Friday, it's effectively a week long strike. People would have made plans for the whole week so can't see too much extra demand tomorrow. Can see the roads being busier though as people would have seen them quiet today, so will take a chance.
Me I'm just a lowly civil servant working (occasionally) at home all day, so hasn't really affected me.
Up the unions🙂
Good on them
First thing I'd say is they obviously have a right to strike and that also it is very noteworthy that this ballot had a very high turnout and a very high level of support for striking. That is pretty rare and what undermines most strikes and dooms them to fail.
That said, whilst it may be good for the workers in question (or it may not long term, if it leads to higher fares or reduced services) but I don't think it's what the country needs for two reasons.
Firstly, after decades of rising passenger numbers, they absolutely collapsed during Covid. All the workers were kept in work not because they worked in a viable industry but through government support, paid for by us (or more accurately, our children). I think that makes a difference here.
Secondly, this won't solve inflation, if anything it will make it worse. If everyone tries to get a 10% wage rise to combat inflation, then the cost of what they are selling will quite likely also rise by 10%, unless there is a miraculous increase in productivity of course, which is unlikely.
It feels a little bit 'on the wrong side of history' really. With so many working from home, demand for rail transport will very likely never again reach the peak we saw about three years ago, and this will only exacerbate that. The disruption caused has been nothing what it would have been and it does feel like a battle they will not win.
On balance, i support their right to strike, but despite having a very clear mandate I think they've made the wrong call for themselves and the country. Inflation is shit, my pay rise will be well below the level of inflation but if we want inflation to pass I think this is a pain we are going to have to ride out without expecting huge pay rises.
A few points, inflation is happening and has been happening for years, certainly pre COVID. The hens are coming home roost about Brexit, as well. Network Rail made 500m last year. The rich are getting richer, and the working classes are paying for it. Inflation is brought on by Tory ineptitude and greed. Pay rises should be in line with inflation, as the products are made more and more expensive. National Rail also put their fares up by 4% this year, while staff haven't had a pay rise in 4 years.
Re the wrong side of history comment, if anyone will come out on the wrong side of history, it will be the Tories and the rich. The NR boss is on 600k a year while many staff are on under 20k a year, and are getting poorer year on year.
The gap between rich and the rest in this country is growing at an alarming rate, and if we don't stop it now, we never will. The Tories want this to happen, and they want the strike to sow division.
As for Mick Lynch, refreshing to hear someone sit so many of these politicians and "experts" down. He knows his stuff, and he also doesn't have to worry about his "progression" or the rest of the garbage the MPs and other guests think about. He's doing what he thinks is right and has the facts to back it up and the lying Tory MPs have no answer apart from personal insults.
Sorry, but there's a lot of populist left-wing tropes and inaccuracies here.
1 / The wrong side of history comment is a reference to the fact that train use has fallen off a cliff (due to covid) and will in all probability never be the same again. If people want to work from home more, the result is a declining public transport. It's one of the reasons I caution against WFH.
2 / Of course, inflation always occurs, normally at a far lower level than now however.
3 / The wealth gap depends on how you look at it, but the average wage and personal tax allowance has risen far quicker under the current administration than the last one. The top rate of tax is also higher (45% v 40%) which rather undermines your party political point about the Tories wanting the gap to grow etc. That said, the pandemic and WFH is exacerbating the wealth gap considerably.
4 / Pay shouldn't be in line with inflation, it should ideally be above it. But sometimes inflation spikes, typically due to wars or other 'acts of god' and when it's caused by that its sometimes the case that we need to ride it out. Countering it with 10% pay rises across the board will probably exacerbate the problem.
5 / I agree, Mick Lynch is impressive, as was Bob Crow, but he has a job to try and protect his members, the govt' has to try and protect the entire country, and the two don't always align. Re Brexit - the RMT were prominent leave campaigners.
6 / Network Rail is publicly owned - what they make in profit goes back into the railways. The dispute is with Train operators.
Happy to be corrected on any of that. The reality, unfortunately is that very very little of the current inflation rate is caused by UK based policy decisions and thus much of it cannot be solved in that way. Political opponents will exploit the situation, but if you want the problem solved, you have to diagnose it properly. Inflation is happening near everywhere, so clearly it isn't caused by the Tories.
Maybe the union will win. Maybe it won't, but giving the country a 10% pay rise to solve a temporary spike in inflation is not the answer, unfortunately. I wish it was, but it isn't.
I have a degree of sympathy for a lot of what you have written but the bit in bold is a little wide of the mark. Not everything that is triggering inflation is caused by Ukraine or the pandemic, and it is wrong to try and change the narrative to suggest that everything is down to external factors. It is not. This Tory government isn't absolved of all blame, and must take its (rather large) fair share.
We are told to not ask for more pay, while Boris is going to remove caps on the banker's bonuses.
We all need to "suck it up", while MPs pay has increased by 20% in the last 10 years. Network Rail and rail executives take home millions. Most of the train companies make millions, and they are all privately owned.
Re wealth inequality: https://www.ft.com/content/d52743ca-...f-8281230a21b5
That's the FT, not some left wing rag.
UK inflation rates have been 2.5%, 2.3%, 1.74%, 0.99% and now 10% plus. The train staff have had a 0% increase in this time. They're also threatened with fire and rehire. If NR are publicly owned, and make 500m profit, surely they can pay their staff a decent wage?
The Tories are happy to give 11bn and plus to their mates. They've wasted billions more on mismanagement. Rishi Sunak is absolute as useful as a chocolate fire guard when it comes to the finances of this country. They have done nothing to help the economy, only feed off it like vultures. Which is Sunak's MO. That's how he made his money in the first place.
if anyone votes Tory in 2024, they need their heads checking or they're filthy rich. And by the way, DML is on your side.
Yet for around a decade, most low paid workers have never had a rise in line with inflation. Very few who work in the public sector have had rises in line with inflation. They were victims of Osborne and Cameron trying to save the public purse. Millions of people have seen costs rise while their wages haven't matched that for a decade or so. Now inflation is going through the roof while wages don't catch up. FFS, how much longer to working people have to "ride this out"?
Forever. Just suck it up and take the scraps.
Well, sorry to bring some facts to the table, but the minimum wage was £6.19 in 2012. It's £9.50 now. Thats an increase of 53%.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation..._Wage_Act_1998
We can add a little from the last few months, but Inflation from 2012 to 2021 was 25%.
https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/mone...ion-calculator
No one disputes the global financial crisis, then a pandemic then a war in Europe don't impact on things. They do. It's been fkn tough, but the solution isn't to give everyone 10% more money. You may want to support the union on ideological ground but you know that in your heart it isn't the answer for the country as a whole.
This is all just crackers. For the last decade or so the country has had low inflation and very low interest rates, from which everyone in the country has benefitted, even those people who rely on savings rates for part of their income. Mortgages and loans have never been so cheap up until very recently. Now, mainly due to global pressures, outside the control of most Governments, a correction is taking place and inflation is temporarily high. Cue Labour and other Socialsts screaming like stuck pigs and Unions claiming 10% plus pay rises for their members. They are back in their element, having not been able to use this card for many years. Opportunist policies on the hoof I call it. Next month's fish and chip paper, as they move on to moan incessantly about something else.
It does make a change from he should resign for having a drink and saying goodbye to someone in work for six minutes.
encase the strikers in concrete and use them as railway sleepers
Solidarity to the workers.
Mick Lynch is superb. He’s knocking the media out of the park. I wish the industry I worked in had someone like that fighting for us.
He is a formidable speaker as was Bob Crow.
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