Mick Lynch RMT Gen Sec

[Pedro de la Rosa]

Its always been this way for young people. This generation is not special.

Youth unemployment is much higher than other generations. It's also incredibly expensive to go to uni. Apprenticeships basically don't exist so you can't learn a trade and if you get a good paying job, house prices have grown so far out of line with wages, it's incredibly difficult to buy a house. Apart from that, young people have it great.

[HiVis]

There should be additional help for housing and working tax etc for people who need it, but people need to want to help themselves and move to a better paid job, it is only considered as a stepping stone to a decent wage.

Finding a better paid job isn't as easy as you suggest. but I do agree that most people just need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. Sadly most cannot afford any boots to do so.

[North Cardiff Blue]

Just get a better job, it's simple

Also, who is going to do those jobs?

Youngsters and new workers do the job's, it's a ladder then they move up and new youngsters replace them, you shouldn't start work at the bottom with the aim of staying there for ever?

[Pedro de la Rosa]

Youngsters and new workers do the job's, it's a ladder then they move up and new youngsters replace them, you shouldn't start work at the bottom with the aim of staying there for ever?

Where exactly is the ladder when you're a cleaner? What is the career progression?

[North Cardiff Blue]

Where exactly is the ladder when you're a cleaner? What is the career progression?

In front of you how are you going to do the upstairs windows?

[HiVis]

Where exactly is the ladder when you're a cleaner? What is the career progression?

well, if you're a window cleaner, the ladder is right in front of you

Being a cleaner, you could start your own business, although that is not for everyone.

[HiVis]

In front of you how are you going to do the upstairs windows?

beat me to it

[North Cardiff Blue]

Where exactly is the ladder when you're a cleaner? What is the career progression?

If you can clean you can deal directly with the customers and cut out the cleaning firm, I came across someone like that cleaning the caravans in Porthcawl, she was very welll paid.

Failing that work hard and work towards becoming a supervisor or manager, or go into a different area of work, if you are not earning enough thats what you'll have to do?

[SuisseBluebird]

Bewildered as to why people would attempt to form an argument that anyone in full time employment does not deserve pay that is enough to live off from without government handouts.

[Pedro de la Rosa]

well, if you're a window cleaner, the ladder is right in front of you

Being a cleaner, you could start your own business, although that is not for everyone.

With what money? As you're a cleaner on minimum wage.

[Pedro de la Rosa]

If you can clean you can deal directly with the customers and cut out the cleaning firm, I came across someone like that cleaning the caravans in Porthcawl, she was very welll paid.

Failing that work hard and work towards becoming a supervisor or manager, or go into a different area of work, if you are not earning enough thats what you'll have to do?

You are completely deluded. These people need to be paid a decent ****ing wage. You can't start a business when you're on minimum wage. You can't live on minimum wage so how are you going to save to start your own company. Why are we in a situation where we are attacking the most vulnerable people in society, so the rich can get richer and richer?

[North Cardiff Blue]

You are completely deluded. These people need to be paid a decent ****ing wage. You can't start a business when you're on minimum wage. You can't live on minimum wage so how are you going to save to start your own company. Why are we in a situation where we are attacking the most vulnerable people in society, so the rich can get richer and richer?

This woman was working for a firm cleaning the vans, chatted to the people in the office and said can I clean the vans for you, they said yes if you like £x per van, she said great i'll do 20 or whatever, she didn't need any cash start up, just iniiative.

[lardy]

This woman was working for a firm cleaning the vans, chatted to the people in the office and said can I clean the vans for you, they said yes if you like £x per van, she said great i'll do 20 or whatever, she didn't need any cash start up, just iniiative.

The firm didn't have contract with the cleaning company she worked for?

[JamesWales]

Of course, but you're being very selective with the facts you choose to use.

Because there was a specific point made that that disproved. I agree, statistics can be used anyway. Perhaps we should all recognise that and not make such hyperbolic or black and white statements? That would be a great thing!

[Pedro de la Rosa]

This woman was working for a firm cleaning the vans, chatted to the people in the office and said can I clean the vans for you, they said yes if you like £x per van, she said great i'll do 20 or whatever, she didn't need any cash start up, just iniiative.

People need to clean the train stations though. So why should they get paid sod all to do so? That's one example, which is good on her. Most cleaners can't go on their own though. It isn't feasible.

[Pedro de la Rosa]

The firm didn't have contract with the cleaning company she worked for?

And this?

[HiVis]

With what money? As you're a cleaner on minimum wage.

Given the plethora of owner managed cleaning companies out there, it must be possible

[HiVis]

Bewildered as to why people would attempt to form an argument that anyone in full time employment does not deserve pay that is enough to live off from without government handouts.

Whilst the right laud the reduction in benefits being paid as a result of job creation and left wax lyrical about how using the benefits system creates wealth equality, both sides really cannot grasp that in one of the richest nations in world, both arguments are wrong.

The minimum wage is anything but. It may work for teenagers and young 20 somethings living with their parents, but in the real world, all employers should strive to pay at least the living wage as a bare minimum.

[Pedro de la Rosa]

Given the plethora of owner managed cleaning companies out there, it must be possible

Given there is already a plethora, don't you think the market might be a bit saturated?

[Pedro de la Rosa]

Whilst the right laud the reduction in benefits being paid as a result of job creation and left wax lyrical about how using the benefits system creates wealth equality, both sides really cannot grasp that in one of the richest nations in world, both arguments are wrong.

The minimum wage is anything but. It may work for teenagers and young 20 somethings living with their parents, but in the real world, all employers should strive to pay at least the living wage as a bare minimum.

So why are you arguing against people getting a decent wage in other comments?

[Eric Cartman]

It is only in the past 12 years that interest rates have been as low as they are. Interest rates historically were around 7-10%, on occasions rising to 15%. It is accepted that housing is the single biggest cost, so I can't see how interest rates being a fraction of what they were back then has made the situation as bad today as you are alluding to.

You need to move away from the Thatcherite policy of homeownership that you favour. Whilst home ownership is nice to have, take a leaf out of our continental cousin's playbook where renting is so much more the norm.

I have said that in other threads that I am more than happy to rent for my whole life however a mortgage would lower my outgoings and provide something at the end, I earn enough to budget and pay my rent but I've not enough wage+deposit to get a mortgage. I don't think my situation is close to unique, the whole housing market is a trap.

My lease expires in September and I am waiting to see how much they try and up it.

[North Cardiff Blue]

And this?

I think they must have used various small cleaning firms?

She's an example of someone who was on her uppers but got out of poverty by spotting an opportunity, I appreciate not everyone has ambition and inititve, some would prefer to blame the government and would prefer to tax higher earners more and more.

[Pedro de la Rosa]

It is only in the past 12 years that interest rates have been as low as they are. Interest rates historically were around 7-10%, on occasions rising to 15%. It is accepted that housing is the single biggest cost, so I can't see how interest rates being a fraction of what they were back then has made the situation as bad today as you are alluding to.

You need to move away from the Thatcherite policy of homeownership that you favour. Whilst home ownership is nice to have, take a leaf out of our continental cousin's playbook where renting is so much more the norm.

I wonder why young people can't afford to buy houses?
https://www.newstatesman.com/politic...-average-wages

[Pedro de la Rosa]

I think they must have used various small cleaning firms?

She's an example of someone who was on her uppers but got out of poverty by spotting an opportunity, I appreciate not everyone has ambition and inititve, some would prefer to blame the government and would prefer to tax higher earners more and more.

Train stations need to be cleaned. There are many cleaners that need to clean them. Why should they not be paid a decent wage for doing a job that needs to be done? If they weren't needed, they wouldn't be employed. For every person that's "worked hard" to get to where there are, there will be many others who have failed. 60% of new businesses fail in their first 3 years.

[lardy]

I think they must have used various small cleaning firms?

She's an example of someone who was on her uppers but got out of poverty by spotting an opportunity, I appreciate not everyone has ambition and inititve, some would prefer to blame the government and would prefer to tax higher earners more and more.

Good for her but I think it's unusual for a contractor for Company A to just take Company A's work with Company B by simply asking for it.