Our idiot will be next
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Our idiot will be next
She keeps on about “you’re voting NO, but you mean YES”
No No No Yes
The difference between us and them is there is a very strong independence movement , backed up by votes , in Scotland
Thankfully , from my point of view it's not the same here
I can quite understand that, in terms of the union, Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland have far less power, even combined, than England has on its own. In essence we are governed by England, given money to spend by England, England tells us what we can decide for ourselves in the Senedd. Politically, England is far different to the other countries and there's barely been an election where the votes of the other countries has made a difference. Some will say that England, being by far the biggest country, should have most of the power and say, but it's also understandable that some in Scotland and Wales will want more control over their countries.Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
I dont think that you quite grasp how a general election works. The votes in all four countries aren't separate, they are all added together to give an overall result for the whole of the UK. Hence the term ‘general’. It always makes me laugh when people like Nichola Sturgeon or Mark Drakeford come on tv after a general election and claim that Wales chose to be governed by Labour and rejects the Tories or Scotland voted for independance because their parties got more seats in their particular area. Er no ….. its not a country by country vote. The whole of the UK is split into constituencies and the WHOLE of the UK decides who governs the WHOLE of the UK. Thats what democracy is. Each country is then given some additional powers to run itself via assemblies voted for by the people of each country but what is devolved is decided centrally by the Government that the whole of the UK voted in. Simple really but some people don't like it.
I think the point is that if those countries were independant they could get a government that reflects the wishes of their populations, rather than one that is foisted on them by people in the south east of England.
Well said. Also true of the Brexit vote and Northern Ireland, where 56% of the population voted remain and look at the mess that's since caused.
To be fair, that's not how a general election works either.
You are correct that the whole of the UK decides who governs the whole of the UK. I haven't suggested anything else.
I will repeat myself as you seem a bit slow on the uptake here, but if you looked at virtually any general election over the last 100 years or more, took away the votes from Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland, the overall result would have remained unchanged, meaning the overall vote from Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland has not mattered in the grand scheme of things.
You clearly aren't interested in Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland having more of a say in how they run their own countries. To you, we're all one UK. That's fair enough, it's up to you. But surely you can see why those in the smaller countries don't think that set up works best for them in terms.
Foreign rule has served us well hasn't it.
Isn't Wales the lowest revenue from tax per population in the UK?
If so how would that work if we were independant?
I love this Phil Bennett quote..
Look what these bastards have done to Wales. They've taken our coal, our water, our steel. They buy our homes and live in them for a fortnight every year. What have they given us? Absolutely nothing. We've been exploited, raped, controlled and punished by the English — and that's who you are playing this afternoon.
If this vote goes ahead, I think the Scots will vote to leave the union. Can’t say I blame them.
I’m not sure independence would work out better for Scotland compared to being in the UK but I don’t see why people are so up in arms about them holding a second referendum 10 years after the previous one. We’ve had 3 general elections in that time and there’s a not insignificant chance we’ll have had a 4th before the next Scottish Referendum.
Considering how much has changed since the last vote (mainly Brexit) why shouldn’t the 600,000 new people now of voting age since the last vote not get a say in their future?
They want to join the EU, and still take their pensions from the UK governments pot?
They'd be bancrupt in ten years!
Surely if they've paid their NI into the UK pot, they should be entitled to it?
No it's paid for by the current tax payers, they've had back what they paid in already if they leave then it stops.
How have they had it back?
Excellent. Then we should be telling pensioners that their contributions don't matter as everything they receive is paid for by current tax payers.
They are entitled to it but there is no 'pot'. What is collected this week in NI payments goes out next week in pension payments, it has been so since the day it was started. In fact the pay out now is more each week than the income because people live longer, so in theory if Scotland leaves there will be no lump sum for them to be entitled to and should be less extra money going out each week.
Last referendum was 8yrs ago. Was once in a generation. A generation isn't 8,9,10yrs, it's a lot longer. If they had another now and lost, a few years down the line they'd want another, and another until it won. Similar to Wales who won the Assembly vote with 51%. If that had been 49% we would have kept having further referendums until it won. Once in, we never get another vote to scrap them unfortunately.
We should all be allowed to vote, everyone would vote to make leave and fail, as long as we build a wall to keep EU workers out!
“Once in a generation” is just a catchphrase though, there’s no binding agreement that means Scotland needs to wait 20 years between votes. If the result next year is Independence then surely it was the right time to hold a vote as enough time had past that a considerable portion of the population had changed their mind and wanted change.
As for a vote on the Senedd, there was an Abolish the Welsh Assembly party that won no seats and got a tiny percentage of the vote, ~3% if I recall.
Totally agree with you. The political landscape of the UK is unrecognisable from 2014. Labour has no mandate in Scotland. We've left the EU. NI is a mess. We have an English Nationalist Prime Minister and government.
Welsh Labour will not be able to ally themselves to a Starmeresque PLP (nor should they) if it's Tory-Lite. I really don't know how Welsh people can support this current crop of Conservatives and government as they hold us (Wales) in complete contempt. Starmer campaigning for a UK will just backfire in Wales and NI as it already has in Scotland.
I think it's perfectly reasonable for Scotland to have another vote. There shouldn't be any limit on the number of times. Anyone who argues against this argues against democracy itself. More voting is a good thing. More people voting is a good thing.
The Sennedd should have greater power. Westminster's style of government is ancient. Unfit for purpose. Invoking Henry VIII powers says all you need to know about its ability to support and respect the people who vote for our MPs. Don't even get me started on the The Lords.
Cyril makes great point about the border issues and the EU's attitude towards us. However, it's much more likely that in order to keep the UK in one piece, we'll have to embrace EU membership again. In a lot of respects, it would solve many problems (providing Cardiff, Edinburgh and Belfast keep their national governments).
Yes, the 'Abolish the Welsh Assembly Party' made themselves look right dicks as does anyone who wants to weaken the democracy of their country, speaks ill if the Senedd or even actively supports its abolition.
I've said many times, I'm not into Nationalism. I've now had enough of flags and anthems. I'm much more concerned about people's power to decide for themselves and for that reason independence appeals. Independence doesn't mean nationalism. F*ck it. I'd even like to see an independent Grangetown!
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