Kyrgios and Tsitsipas……………..

[lardy]

There's also a Tour de France thread going at the moment. I used to really love cycling but not anymore for all the obvious reasons, though I do think it's a sport that should take a long hard look at itself and decide on some realistic regulations. People tend to blanket the term 'drugs' but that sport is crazily hypocritical in my view.

Yes, cycling and the tours are probably the most extreme examples in all sports. I remember reading that the guy considered to be the last clean winner was in 1987, but maybe it's been cleaned up a bit now.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Yes, cycling and the tours are probably the most extreme examples in all sports. I remember reading that the guy considered to be the last clean winner was in 1987, but maybe it's been cleaned up a bit now.

Martina Navratilova

[Der Kaiser]

Bollocks , you are wet behind the ears

A few good international tournaments every 4 years doesn’t qualify any player to be anywhere near the likes of the games best.

[Citizen's Nephew]

Every time I see this thread title in the stream it just reads like the main event of a 5th Century BCE Greek amphitheatre.

[Rock_Flock_of_Five]

Pele

No sniff needed

Hmm... most of the highlights shown of his career almost always seem to show a missed goal.

[Wash DC Blue]

Pele has to be one of the most overated players in history.

Most of his goals were against pub teams.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Younger viewers will of course go crazy over modern lightweight diving ponces

But Pele was the real deal and had legs like tree trunks

When the game was not played by plastic footballs and you could tackle someone without them ordering an ambulance as they fell

[Citizen's Nephew]

Pele has to be one of the most overated players in history.

Most of his goals were against pub teams.

Careful now Wash, careful.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/27590899

[Joe Gillis]

Navratilova makes me laugh , she used to be nicknamed ratty

Most of em are spoilt brats

The crowd are all wankers

Ok

[Joe Gillis]

Pele has to be one of the most overated players in history.

Most of his goals were against pub teams.

That's a joke right?
He scored a hat trick in a World Cup semi final and two in the final, all at the age of 17!
He won the World Cup again 4 years later, was kicked from pillar to post in '66 (because he was shyte) and came back to be the star of the 1970 World Cup playing in one of the greatest teams of all time.
He's also the only player to win the World Cup 3 times.
Ah, but that was when everything was in black and white so it doesn't count,
You'll be telling us Di Stefano was over rated next. Go and boil your head!

[Wash DC Blue]

That's a joke right?
He scored a hat trick in a World Cup semi final and two in the final, all at the age of 17!
He won the World Cup again 4 years later, was kicked from pillar to post in '66 (because he was shyte) and came back to be the star of the 1970 World Cup playing in one of the greatest teams of all time.
He's also the only player to win the World Cup 3 times.
Ah, but that was when everything was in black and white so it doesn't count,
You'll be telling us Di Stefano was over rated next. Go and boil your head!

Expected a bit of pushback...but fcking boil my head.
You mention the great Brazilian teams, he was a part of the great teams...he didn't fcking drag them to the pinnacle like Maradona did for Argentina.

Anyway I digress...go boil your fcuking head!

[the other bob wilson]

I rate Maradona ahead of Pele, but you only have to watch Goal, the film of the 1966 World Cup, to see how the latter was kicked from pillar to post by Bulgarian, Hungarian and Portuguese defenders to be convinced that he was something special - why would he have got that sort of attention if he just was someone who had an inflated reputation?

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Ok

You are welcome dave

[North Cardiff Blue]

Going to come to blows soon here.

He must have done something pretty bad to him in the past, with all the bully agitations, and the fact he could get under his skin so easily!

[Citizen's Nephew]

I rate Maradona ahead of Pele, but you only have to watch Goal, the film of the 1966 World Cup, to see how the latter was kicked from pillar to post by Bulgarian, Hungarian and Portuguese defenders to be convinced that he was something special - why would he have got that sort of attention if he just was someone who had an inflated reputation?

Same thing happened to John Charles in ‘58. I read his autobiography. It was brutal, the guy could hardly walk after the games.

[Wash DC Blue]

I rate Maradona ahead of Pele, but you only have to watch Goal, the film of the 1966 World Cup, to see how the latter was kicked from pillar to post by Bulgarian, Hungarian and Portuguese defenders to be convinced that he was something special - why would he have got that sort of attention if he just was someone who had an inflated reputation?

Didn't Eusabio receive the same treatment that tournament?

My point is that his claim of 1200 odd goals is bollox that he has helped perpetuate.
It's not that he wasn't a great...but it could be argued convincingly that he's not even Brazils greatest player...just a default icon.

Garrincha was more important in 1962 and Jairzinho arguably more important in 1970.

He played for a stacked Santos team in a comparatively poor league.

Then its debatable that Romario dragged Brazil to the 94 World Cup similar to Maradonna...then you have Ronaldo (phenom) and Ronaldinho replicated their amazing ability in Europe.

[Hilts]

Didn't Eusabio receive the same treatment that tournament?

My point is that his claim of 1200 odd goals is bollox that he has helped perpetuate.
It's not that he wasn't a great...but it could be argued convincingly that he's not even Brazils greatest player...just a default icon.

Garrincha was more important in 1962 and Jairzinho arguably more important in 1970.

He played for a stacked Santos team in a comparatively poor league.

Then its debatable that Romario dragged Brazil to the 94 World Cup similar to Maradonna...then you have Ronaldo (phenom) and Ronaldinho replicated their amazing ability in Europe.

Nah its not debatable that Romario dragged Brazil to the final like Maradona.

[the other bob wilson]

Didn't Eusabio receive the same treatment that tournament?

My point is that his claim of 1200 odd goals is bollox that he has helped perpetuate.
It's not that he wasn't a great...but it could be argued convincingly that he's not even Brazils greatest player...just a default icon.

Garrincha was more important in 1962 and Jairzinho arguably more important in 1970.

He played for a stacked Santos team in a comparatively poor league.

Then its debatable that Romario dragged Brazil to the 94 World Cup similar to Maradonna...then you have Ronaldo (phenom) and Ronaldinho replicated their amazing ability in Europe.

I can’t remember Eusebio being fouled too badly in 1966, but I was only ten at the time, so might not have noticed it if he had been.

I wouldn’t argue about the 1,200 goals and would agree that there is a debate to be had about him not being Brazil’s greatest player. I was able to take in more of what was happening in 1970 and, although I thought Garson and Tostao were tremendous in that tournament, I’d rate Pele as the best international team I’ve seens pivotal player. You’ve also got to factor in 1958 when judging Pele, he was clearly something very special at 17. Nevertheless, it’s Maradona at number one for me because you’re right about Pele always playing in very good sides, whereas the 1986 Argentina team was basically Maradona and ten good, but not exceptional, players.

[Rjk]

I can’t remember Eusebio being fouled too badly in 1966, but I was only ten at the time, so might not have noticed it if he had been.

I wouldn’t argue about the 1,200 goals and would agree that there is a debate to be had about him not being Brazil’s greatest player. I was able to take in more of what was happening in 1970 and, although I thought Garson and Tostao were tremendous in that tournament, I’d rate Pele as the best international team I’ve seens pivotal player. You’ve also got to factor in 1958 when judging Pele, he was clearly something very special at 17. Nevertheless, it’s Maradona at number one for me because you’re right about Pele always playing in very good sides, whereas the 1986 Argentina team was basically Maradona and ten good, but not exceptional, players.

I was listening to a radio interview a while back, but I can't remember who, I think it was an Argentinian journalist, that was arguing that the degree to which Maradona carried the Argentina 1986 team has been massively overstated. They made a pretty convincing argument at the time, unfortunately I can;t remember most of it - I remember one other player had had a pretty good season up front for Real Madrid and scored some important goals.

[Hilts]

I was listening to a radio interview a while back, but I can't remember who, I think it was an Argentinian journalist, that was arguing that the degree to which Maradona carried the Argentina 1986 team has been massively overstated. They made a pretty convincing argument at the time, unfortunately I can;t remember most of it - I remember one other player had had a pretty good season up front for Real Madrid and scored some important goals.

I know what I witnessed in 86.

He carried them.

He was unstoppable.