WFH

[JamesWales]

What are reasons number.1 to 7?

I jest by saying reason number 8 but here goes off the top of my head. All can be disputed of course, and I refer to 100% WFH, not hybrids, which reduce many issues.

1 - Generally bad for mental health, especially for some
2 - Bad for staff development
3 - Bad for public transport infrastructure
4 - No better for the environment
5 - Bad for creating team cultures
6 - Worse for younger staff
7 - increases inequalities
8 - very questionable productivity gains, especially in long term
9 - takes forever to get some stuff done
10 - questionable savings long term

I just find staff are sadder, miss eachother, more anxious and have far less holistic knowledge about what is going on. Silos are strengthened etc. It is also profoundly unfair that the 50 year old person in the large 5 bed house with garden and home office was previously given the same resources as the 25 year old in a shared house, whereas now their working environments reflect their status. It's cruel in many respects.

[Pedro de la Rosa]

I jest by saying reason number 8 but here goes off the top of my head. All can be disputed of course, and I refer to 100% WFH, not hybrids, which reduce many issues.

1 - Generally bad for mental health, especially for some
2 - Bad for staff development
3 - Bad for public transport infrastructure
4 - No better for the environment
5 - Bad for creating team cultures
6 - Worse for younger staff
7 - increases inequalities
8 - very questionable productivity gains, especially in long term
9 - takes forever to get some stuff done
10 - questionable savings long term

I just find staff are sadder, miss eachother, more anxious and have far less holistic knowledge about what is going on. Silos are strengthened etc. It is also profoundly unfair that the 50 year old person in the large 5 bed house with garden and home office was previously given the same resources as the 25 year old in a shared house, whereas now their working environments reflect their status. It's cruel in many respects.

Just like to add productivity has absolutely not gone down during the pandemic but the lines have definitely been blurred.

How have you got to 4, 8 and 10? It is absolutely better for the environment, people don't need to travel to the office. Massive savings too, as people need less office space. I've covered 8.

People who slack off, always have slacked off.

[JamesWales]

Just like to add productivity has absolutely not gone down during the pandemic but the lines have definitely been blurred.

How have you got to 4, 8 and 10? It is absolutely better for the environment, people don't need to travel to the office. Massive savings too, as people need less office space. I've covered 8.

People who slack off, always have slacked off.

It's not better for the environment. UK energy demand went up for the first time in a decade during covid and WFH. How you commute is of course the issue; cars are worse than trains which are worse than walking or cycling. We have seen a significant decline in public transport infrastuture and a rise in energy use. It's hard to argue it's positive.

In short, 100 people in one large lit and heated room is MUCH better for the environment than 100 people in individually lit and heated houses.
https://grid.iamkate.com/

Big debate over productivity. Either way, loads of issues irrespective of WFH
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk...hours%20worked.

Companies save on office space but pay out in other areas; equiping everyones home, mobile phones, long term lack of creative development etc.

Some interesting bits here: https://www.europeanbusinessreview.eu/page.asp?pid=4793

All of this can be disputed, but i think 100% WFH is very damaging.

[Eric Cartman]

It's not better for the environment. UK energy demand went up for the first time in a decade during covid and WFH. How you commute is of course the issue; cars are worse than trains which are worse than walking or cycling. We have seen a significant decline in public transport infrastuture and a rise in energy use. It's hard to argue it's positive.

In short, 100 people in one large lit and heated room is MUCH better for the environment than 100 people in individually lit and heated houses.
https://grid.iamkate.com/

Big debate over productivity. Either way, loads of issues irrespective of WFH
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk...hours%20worked.

Companies save on office space but pay out in other areas; equiping everyones home, mobile phones, long term lack of creative development etc.

Some interesting bits here: https://www.europeanbusinessreview.eu/page.asp?pid=4793

All of this can be disputed, but i think 100% WFH is very damaging.

The mental health thing is going to affect different people in different ways. I am a single guy living on my own 10 minutes walk from work. It probably puts me firmly in the category of 'lose lots, gains little' when it comes to WFH but I still prefer it.

I can't imagine somebody who was commuting 2 hours through London twice a day, leaving the house at 6.15 and getting in at 7.45 at night, seeing their kids for a few minutes before bed and thoroughly nackered the rest of the time they are home, would see WFH as 'damaging to their mental health'.

[JamesWales]

The mental health thing is going to affect different people in different ways. I am a single guy living on my own 10 minutes walk from work. It probably puts me firmly in the category of 'lose lots, gains little' when it comes to WFH but I still prefer it.

I can't imagine somebody who was commuting 2 hours through London twice a day, leaving the house at 6.15 and getting in at 7.45 at night, seeing their kids for a few minutes before bed and thoroughly nackered the rest of the time they are home, would see WFH as 'damaging to their mental health'.

I agree, it does affect different people in different ways, though I think it is the already vulnerable or those in less suitable home surroundings who are more at risk. There is a lot of bad stuff that goes on behind closed doors and for many, work is an escape from that.

I just think people need to be very cautious on all this and whilst 100% office working isn't usually necessary, 100% home working can cause grave issues professionally and personally. I think it's been a total nightmare for both and things are generally much harder - simple tasks take much longer, understanding of issues is far less and generally people don't know what eachother are doing.

Commuting is of course the biggest issue. Personally I enjoy a modest commute and choose to live where I live because of the train and bus links and I enjoy a walk home, with time to think and process the day and seperating home and work is important. I know a lot of people who have just entered a general malaise about it all, some who have embraced it positively and some who really have seen significant mental health declines.

Personally I'm just a firm believer in the democratic nature of offices and of humans interacting and mixing more as opposed to less and thats the big issue for me; I think it is creating conditions where many negative things can flourish that previously were less likely to occur.

[Rjk]

I agree, it does affect different people in different ways, though I think it is the already vulnerable or those in less suitable home surroundings who are more at risk. There is a lot of bad stuff that goes on behind closed doors and for many, work is an escape from that.

I just think people need to be very cautious on all this and whilst 100% office working isn't usually necessary, 100% home working can cause grave issues professionally and personally. I think it's been a total nightmare for both and things are generally much harder - simple tasks take much longer, understanding of issues is far less and generally people don't know what eachother are doing.

Commuting is of course the biggest issue. Personally I enjoy a modest commute and choose to live where I live because of the train and bus links and I enjoy a walk home, with time to think and process the day and seperating home and work is important. I know a lot of people who have just entered a general malaise about it all, some who have embraced it positively and some who really have seen significant mental health declines.

Personally I'm just a firm believer in the democratic nature of offices and of humans interacting and mixing more as opposed to less and thats the big issue for me; I think it is creating conditions where many negative things can flourish that previously were less likely to occur.

very few places are mandatory 100% home working.
almost everyone I know is back in the office at least some of the time and most can go back ,100% if they want.

[the other bob wilson]

Just like to add productivity has absolutely not gone down during the pandemic but the lines have definitely been blurred.

How have you got to 4, 8 and 10? It is absolutely better for the environment, people don't need to travel to the office. Massive savings too, as people need less office space. I've covered 8.

People who slack off, always have slacked off.

Mr Wales has form for treating his opinions as if they’re facts.

[JamesWales]

Mr Wales has form for treating his opinions as if they’re facts.

As usual Bob, you pipe up and say this (with no hint of irony) but I've provided some links there. You haven't.

[the other bob wilson]

As usual Bob, you pipe up and say this (with no hint of irony) but I've provided some links there. You haven't.

I’ve had my say about home working in the other 349 threads we’ve had on here on the subject - all I’m doing here is saying your list of ten reasons why it is a bad thing is heavy on opinions.

[JamesWales]

I’ve had my say about home working in the other 349 threads we’ve had on here on the subject - all I’m doing here is saying your list of ten reasons why it is a bad thing is heavy on opinions.

The whole thread is about opinions Bob, but you pull out the only person who has provided links (on energy use, on productivity and mental health) as the one not backing up his arguments. That's curious.

[Rjk]

As usual Bob, you pipe up and say this (with no hint of irony) but I've provided some links there. You haven't.

he's spot on though