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Thread: Welsh Labour vote to increase in Senedd Members from 60 to 96

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  1. #1

    Welsh Labour vote to increase in Senedd Members from 60 to 96

    Welsh Labour vote, which will see reforms made to the Senedd.

    This includes an increase in Senedd Members from 60 to 96 ..

    Yey more bureaucracy costs ...

    I'd rather have 36 more ambulance crews , probably the overall year on year cost of the extra Senedd members would get us 100 new crews when you factor in their support staff , free transport costs , office space , IT set up , traveling abroad / UK missions to sell the Welsh dream , hospitality, free drinks , food , pensions , etc

    Cost of living crisis !!! cost of living crisis !! I hear Welsh Labour Senedd shout ,we cant feel it

  2. #2
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    Re: Welsh Labour vote to increase in Senedd Members from 60 to 96

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    Welsh Labour vote, which will see reforms made to the Senedd.

    This includes an increase in Senedd Members from 60 to 96 ..

    Yey more bureaucracy costs ...

    I'd rather have 36 more ambulance crews , probably the overall year on year cost of the extra Senedd members would get us 100 new crews when you factor in their support staff , free transport costs , office space , IT set up , traveling abroad / UK missions to sell the Welsh dream , hospitality, free drinks , food , pensions , etc

    Cost of living crisis !!! cost of living crisis !! I hear Welsh Labour Senedd shout ,we cant feel it
    Animal farm order more pig food for the troughs!!!

  3. #3

    Re: Welsh Labour vote to increase in Senedd Members from 60 to 96

    Why is there a plan for 36 more members?

    The current total of 60 has been the number since the creation of what was then called the National Assembly for Wales 1999. In those days it had very limited powers and no tax powers.

    The Senedd, and the Welsh government, have since acquired direct law-making powers and some tax powers, including over a share of income tax.

    It is argued that with all these extra powers more politicians are needed to scrutinise proposed new laws and government ministers' actions, and that there are simply not enough Senedd members to do that job as well as it could be done.

    Unlike at Westminster, where there are 650 MPs in the House of Commons, there is also no equivalent of the House of Lords in Wales, which provides a second check on the legal plans of UK ministers.

    In essence, it is said Senedd members currently have too high a workload if they do all they are required to do, and ministers plans and actions are not being challenged as much as they could be.

    That might mean for example, in extreme cases, that mistakes that would otherwise have been spotted in advance are that much more likely to occur.

    This proposal is to move from 60 to 96 members in Cardiff Bay, to cope with the additional work involved in providing greater scrutiny.
    Source - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-61393446

    Seems reasonable to me. If you're angry about this wait until you hear about the £1 TRILLION in debt the current UK government have added.

    And cost of living crisis, how about the £500 a year per person Brexit is costing? https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/bre...ts-2022-06-21/

    Or the wage stagnation of the past 40 years? I could go on..

  4. #4

    Re: Welsh Labour vote to increase in Senedd Members from 60 to 96

    Quote Originally Posted by Doucas View Post
    Source - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-61393446

    Seems reasonable to me. If you're angry about this wait until you hear about the £1 TRILLION in debt the current UK government have added.

    And cost of living crisis, how about the £500 a year per person Brexit is costing? https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/bre...ts-2022-06-21/

    Or the wage stagnation of the past 40 years? I could go on..

    Please use the sharing tools found via the share button at the top or side of articles. Copying articles to share with others is a breach of FT.com T&Cs and Copyright Policy. Email licensing@ft.com to buy additional rights. Subscribers may share up to 10 or 20 articles per month using the gift article service. More information can be found at https://www.ft.com/tour.
    https://www.ft.com/content/2c555bc7-...b-c2489e1f8304

    As Germany’s biggest union, IG Metall, begins discussions on demands for a wage increase of up to 8.2 per cent for the country’s 85,000 steelworkers in the coming weeks, Birgit Dietze expects reverberations for workers across Europe.


    Why is Germany and France and in debt , inflation rising is it Brexit ?????????

    Eurozone as a whole has a worse wage lag than UK

    Job vacancies in Europe rising

    I could go on ..

  5. #5

    Re: Welsh Labour vote to increase in Senedd Members from 60 to 96

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    Please use the sharing tools found via the share button at the top or side of articles. Copying articles to share with others is a breach of FT.com T&Cs and Copyright Policy. Email licensing@ft.com to buy additional rights. Subscribers may share up to 10 or 20 articles per month using the gift article service. More information can be found at https://www.ft.com/tour.
    https://www.ft.com/content/2c555bc7-...b-c2489e1f8304

    As Germany’s biggest union, IG Metall, begins discussions on demands for a wage increase of up to 8.2 per cent for the country’s 85,000 steelworkers in the coming weeks, Birgit Dietze expects reverberations for workers across Europe.


    Why is Germany and France and in debt , inflation rising is it Brexit ?????????

    Eurozone as a whole has a worse wage lag than UK

    Job vacancies in Europe rising

    I could go on ..
    I must admit, for a group of people who portray themselves as pro-european, there are an awful lot of them who don't actually follow what is happening in continental Europe.

  6. #6

    Re: Welsh Labour vote to increase in Senedd Members from 60 to 96

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesWales View Post
    I must admit, for a group of people who portray themselves as pro-european, there are an awful lot of them who don't actually follow what is happening in continental Europe.
    I must admit that some one trying to make an anti-European point should be aware that Germany has a debt to GDP ratio that is half that of the UK.

    I also admit I found it ironic that this commentator uses record vacancies in the UK to laud the success of the UK economy and record vacancies in Germany as a stick to beat it.

    I'm surprised that as an eager follower of continental economics you didn't point that out. Still what do I know?

  7. #7

    Re: Welsh Labour vote to increase in Senedd Members from 60 to 96

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesWales View Post
    I must admit, for a group of people who portray themselves as pro-european, there are an awful lot of them who don't actually follow what is happening in continental Europe.
    reddit.com/r/iamverysmart

  8. #8

    Re: Welsh Labour vote to increase in Senedd Members from 60 to 96

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    Please use the sharing tools found via the share button at the top or side of articles. Copying articles to share with others is a breach of FT.com T&Cs and Copyright Policy. Email licensing@ft.com to buy additional rights. Subscribers may share up to 10 or 20 articles per month using the gift article service. More information can be found at https://www.ft.com/tour.
    https://www.ft.com/content/2c555bc7-...b-c2489e1f8304

    As Germany’s biggest union, IG Metall, begins discussions on demands for a wage increase of up to 8.2 per cent for the country’s 85,000 steelworkers in the coming weeks, Birgit Dietze expects reverberations for workers across Europe.


    Why is Germany and France and in debt , inflation rising is it Brexit ?????????

    Eurozone as a whole has a worse wage lag than UK


    Job vacancies in Europe rising

    I could go on ..
    Let's take a look at wages between 2010 and 2017 https://www.ft.com/content/c4437c9e-...5-50daf11b720d

    Our wage growth is only currently better (over what, a one week snippet you've sniped from somewhere) because most EU countries haven't had 12 years of basically no wage growth.

    Do you honestly believe the standard of life is better in the UK than say Franch, Netherlands, Germany any of the scandavian countries etc?

  9. #9

    Re: Welsh Labour vote to increase in Senedd Members from 60 to 96

    Quote Originally Posted by Doucas View Post
    Let's take a look at wages between 2010 and 2017 https://www.ft.com/content/c4437c9e-...5-50daf11b720d

    Our wage growth is only currently better (over what, a one week snippet you've sniped from somewhere) because most EU countries haven't had 12 years of basically no wage growth.

    Do you honestly believe the standard of life is better in the UK than say Franch, Netherlands, Germany any of the scandavian countries etc?
    What I do know that wages are lagging behind in very country in the world this is not difficult just google wage lagging and almost every country pop up , and the Eurozone in the last decade has underperformed compared to the UK , hence the Eastern Europeans coming to the UK to work or did they come take a wage cut ????

  10. #10

    Re: Welsh Labour vote to increase in Senedd Members from 60 to 96

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    What I do know that wages are lagging behind in very country in the world this is not difficult just google wage lagging and almost every country pop up , and the Eurozone in the last decade has underperformed compared to the UK , hence the Eastern Europeans coming to the UK to work or did they come take a wage cut ????
    I thought most of the Eastern Europeans coming here in the years before Brexit were Poles and Romanians

  11. #11

    Re: Welsh Labour vote to increase in Senedd Members from 60 to 96

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    Please use the sharing tools found via the share button at the top or side of articles. Copying articles to share with others is a breach of FT.com T&Cs and Copyright Policy. Email licensing@ft.com to buy additional rights. Subscribers may share up to 10 or 20 articles per month using the gift article service. More information can be found at https://www.ft.com/tour.
    https://www.ft.com/content/2c555bc7-...b-c2489e1f8304

    As Germany’s biggest union, IG Metall, begins discussions on demands for a wage increase of up to 8.2 per cent for the country’s 85,000 steelworkers in the coming weeks, Birgit Dietze expects reverberations for workers across Europe.


    Why is Germany and France and in debt , inflation rising is it Brexit ?????????

    Eurozone as a whole has a worse wage lag than UK

    Job vacancies in Europe rising

    I could go on ..
    Well! you got your sovereignty back and control over your borders.What could be better.

  12. #12

    Re: Welsh Labour vote to increase in Senedd Members from 60 to 96

    Quote Originally Posted by Doucas View Post
    Source - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-61393446

    Seems reasonable to me. If you're angry about this wait until you hear about the £1 TRILLION in debt the current UK government have added.

    And cost of living crisis, how about the £500 a year per person Brexit is costing? https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/bre...ts-2022-06-21/

    Or the wage stagnation of the past 40 years? I could go on..
    This is classic whataboutery. Why not respond to the subject matter in hand?

  13. #13

    Re: Welsh Labour vote to increase in Senedd Members from 60 to 96

    Quote Originally Posted by Doucas View Post
    Source - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-61393446

    Seems reasonable to me. If you're angry about this wait until you hear about the £1 TRILLION in debt the current UK government have added.

    And cost of living crisis, how about the £500 a year per person Brexit is costing? https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/bre...ts-2022-06-21/

    Or the wage stagnation of the past 40 years? I could go on..
    Please don't ‘go on’. What you say has nothing to do with the thread anyway.

    Public debt has gone up because the Government had to pay for the pandemic to keep people like you and me alive and in work. If you want to see a real increase in the countries debt, help elect a new labour government next time around and then you will see what real debt looks like.

    The cost of living ‘crisis’ is being felt all over the world, lead by large increases in energy costs due to factors that are nothing to do with Brexit. Also in the last 15 years we have enjoyed record low interest rates and low inflation and everyone has benefitted from this, including the people who are moaning the loudest now that inflation has increased.

    Wages increases have been lower but as I said so has inflation. Wages certainly haven't ‘stagnated’ as you make out. If someone is prepared to work hard and put in the hours there are still rewards to be had and opportunities to better oneself. Some people seem to think that people should get a pay rise no matter how little effort (if any) they put in.

  14. #14

    Re: Welsh Labour vote to increase in Senedd Members from 60 to 96

    Quote Originally Posted by dml1954 View Post
    Please don't ‘go on’. What you say has nothing to do with the thread anyway.

    Public debt has gone up because the Government had to pay for the pandemic to keep people like you and me alive and in work. If you want to see a real increase in the countries debt, help elect a new labour government next time around and then you will see what real debt looks like.

    The cost of living ‘crisis’ is being felt all over the world, lead by large increases in energy costs due to factors that are nothing to do with Brexit. Also in the last 15 years we have enjoyed record low interest rates and low inflation and everyone has benefitted from this, including the people who are moaning the loudest now that inflation has increased.

    Wages increases have been lower but as I said so has inflation. Wages certainly haven't ‘stagnated’ as you make out. If someone is prepared to work hard and put in the hours there are still rewards to be had and opportunities to better oneself. Some people seem to think that people should get a pay rise no matter how little effort (if any) they put in.
    The world is in the same dilemma have to move beyond the hatred of Brexit and Boris desperate times ..

    Big economises are stuttering as are the job markets , wages , inflation and they include Germany .Japan , North America , I d just suggest you perhaps examine the plights of these countries in more depth ..

    As stated to Dorcus , why were folk coming to the UK ?? Why not stay in wealthy Germany / France if they are that better or go to a Nordic country .


    Please use the sharing tools found via the share button at the top or side of articles. Copying articles to share with others is a breach of FT.com T&Cs and Copyright Policy. Email licensing@ft.com to buy additional rights. Subscribers may share up to 10 or 20 articles per month using the gift article service. More information can be found at https://www.ft.com/tour.
    https://www.ft.com/content/6f325773-...1-6bc986ee90fa

    Trade balance of the overall eurozone, which had a trade deficit in goods of €32.4bn in April, a reversal from a surplus of €14.9bn a year earlier. Eurozone trade figures for May are due to be released on July 15.


    Germany records first monthly trade deficit since 1991 as import costs soar
    Lower demand for exports also contributes to €1bn negative trading balance for May

    Eurozone’s long-stagnating wages start to rise as cost of living soars
    After a decade of little to no pay growth, workers are finally starting to see higher settlements

    All of the above from the FT who are no friend of the Tories or Brexit

  15. #15

    Re: Welsh Labour vote to increase in Senedd Members from 60 to 96

    Quote Originally Posted by dml1954 View Post
    If you want to see a real increase in the countries debt, help elect a new labour government next time around and then you will see what real debt looks like.
    Nice to see this old chestnut re-emerge. It's utter bollocks and has been proven to be nonsense time and again.

    Out of interest, care to say make any comparisons between our national debt in 2010 after a global recession and any time close to the beginning of the Covid pandemic?

  16. #16

    Re: Welsh Labour vote to increase in Senedd Members from 60 to 96

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    Nice to see this old chestnut re-emerge. It's utter bollocks and has been proven to be nonsense time and again.

    Out of interest, care to say make any comparisons between our national debt in 2010 after a global recession and any time close to the beginning of the Covid pandemic?
    In 2007 debt/GDP was 34%, and it rose dramatically to its current levels following the financial crash in 2008. It peaked at 81% in 2016 and started to fall, rising rapidly again after the pandemic to its current level of 95%.

    The debt/GDP rose continuously post financial crash, as to try and balance the books at that time would have ruined the economy. You cannot just remove £150bn of public expenditure from the economy to balance the books, it has to be undertaken by growing the economy, improving tax receipts and targeted cuts. Whilst the incumbent government succeeded in the first two (the Tories are not the party of low taxation), it is highly subjective whether they achieved the third aim.

    We should see a faster reduction of debt/GDP this time around, as there was a lot of one off spending during the pandemic.

    link

  17. #17

    Re: Welsh Labour vote to increase in Senedd Members from 60 to 96

    Quote Originally Posted by DryCleaning View Post
    In 2007 debt/GDP was 34%, and it rose dramatically to its current levels following the financial crash in 2008. It peaked at 81% in 2016 and started to fall, rising rapidly again after the pandemic to its current level of 95%.

    The debt/GDP rose continuously post financial crash, as to try and balance the books at that time would have ruined the economy. You cannot just remove £150bn of public expenditure from the economy to balance the books, it has to be undertaken by growing the economy, improving tax receipts and targeted cuts. Whilst the incumbent government succeeded in the first two (the Tories are not the party of low taxation), it is highly subjective whether they achieved the third aim.
    I would argue that growth during the period was fragile at best. Lots of working class people never had pay rises that matched inflation yet wages continued to soar at the opposite end. Cuts that affected people's livelihoods also stifled growth.

    I have always been of the opinion that the cuts were more to do with ideology as an attack on public services than economics. It's an easy one to win. People see less being done with the taxes they pay so they start to see public services as a waste of money.

    So to recap your point, the incumbent government barely achieved 1, which stifled 2 and they probably felt they failed with 3 as they wanted deeper and more savage cuts, regardless of who it affected.

  18. #18

    Re: Welsh Labour vote to increase in Senedd Members from 60 to 96

    How about they increase numbers by 10% say to then demonstrate the benefit/s? 60% increase off the bat seems crazy, and hugely expensive.

  19. #19

    Re: Welsh Labour vote to increase in Senedd Members from 60 to 96

    More jobs for the boys.

  20. #20

    Re: Welsh Labour vote to increase in Senedd Members from 60 to 96

    On the face of it this is classic politicians voting to support themselves stuff.

    However, I support it. The senedd has gained considerably more powers in recent years and despite what some say, the UK and senedd has received a raft of powers previously held by Brussels, so the senedd is more powerful and has more work to do. It's also worth noting that the number of Welsh MP's will fall in coming years to align the constituency sizes with the rest of the UK.

    Where I think cuts could be made is in councils. It remains preposterous that Wales has 22.

  21. #21

    Re: Welsh Labour vote to increase in Senedd Members from 60 to 96

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    Welsh Labour vote, which will see reforms made to the Senedd.

    This includes an increase in Senedd Members from 60 to 96 ..

    Yey more bureaucracy costs ...

    I'd rather have 36 more ambulance crews , probably the overall year on year cost of the extra Senedd members would get us 100 new crews when you factor in their support staff , free transport costs , office space , IT set up , traveling abroad / UK missions to sell the Welsh dream , hospitality, free drinks , food , pensions , etc

    Cost of living crisis !!! cost of living crisis !! I hear Welsh Labour Senedd shout ,we cant feel it
    How much is it costing?

  22. #22

    Re: Welsh Labour vote to increase in Senedd Members from 60 to 96

    Quote Originally Posted by Tito Fuente View Post
    How much is it costing?
    A lot ...


    Net expenditure of the Welsh Parliament, Welsh Assembly was at £56.5m in 2018-19.

    Approximately 460 people support the 60

    What I don't know is what next expenditure means does it include all the add on's i.e. pensions , cars , offices , IT , staff , trips , hospitality , free tea and biscuits ,subsidized food , etc ..

    Do you know ??????

    https://senedd.wales/commission/work...om-april-2021/

  23. #23

    Re: Welsh Labour vote to increase in Senedd Members from 60 to 96

    How does that compare with number of MPs in similar sized countries?

  24. #24

    Re: Welsh Labour vote to increase in Senedd Members from 60 to 96

    Quote Originally Posted by Canton Kev View Post
    How does that compare with number of MPs in similar sized countries?
    Thought I'd check myself out of curiosity. With 60 MS' that's 1 for every 54k people, with 96 it's 1 per 33k people.

    160 in Ireland = 1 per 31k
    129 in Scotland = 1 per 42k
    169 in Norway = 1 per 32k
    179 in Denmark = 1 per 32k
    151 in Croatia = 1 per 27k

  25. #25

    Re: Welsh Labour vote to increase in Senedd Members from 60 to 96

    Quote Originally Posted by Canton Kev View Post
    Thought I'd check myself out of curiosity. With 60 MS' that's 1 for every 54k people, with 96 it's 1 per 33k people.

    160 in Ireland = 1 per 31k
    129 in Scotland = 1 per 42k
    169 in Norway = 1 per 32k
    179 in Denmark = 1 per 32k
    151 in Croatia = 1 per 27k
    so what's the issue here?

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