Chaos in Government

[HiVis]

So, you think twelve years of Tory rule (five of it with the Lib Dems) has been good for the country? Why? Nearly every attempt I’ve seen to answer that question begins with “but what would it have been like with Labour”, but it would be good to see why anyone thinks we’re better off now than we were in April 2010 in the month before the Tories regained power.

There really is no way of saying whether the country would have been in a better or worse position than it is now if Labour had been in power for those 12 years, given it is hypothetical and it just is not possible to compare. An individual's viewpoint is going to be driven by their own politics so if you're left wing you'll think it would have been better and if you're right wing you'll think it would have been worse.

Historians love counter factual scenarios, and almost every occasion, counter factual tends to result in convergence with actual events in the long run. Given most political decisions only tweak around the edges, certainly in respect of the economy, my view is that we'd probably be exactly where we are today.

[Michael Morris]

Podium is out in Downing St.

[North Cardiff Blue]

You speak for yourself , I don't vote for what's in my best interest

Wow don't you, big tax payer then are you?

Never received any benefits?

[The Lone Gunman]

I'm not sure how being technically correct can be wrong, but here we are.

You know full well that you're wrong, but you're acting the twat anyway. And here we are.

[chrisp_1927]

Am I the only person in the country who actually quite likes Starmer ? I'd happily vote for him. The only thing that puts me off the Labour Party are the amount of loonies associated who are still throwing their toys out the pram about corbyn being kicked out. The hard done by 'worlds against us' narrative is almost trumpian in nature. The biggest drawback both corbyn and Johnson have is that they are both as thick as dogsh*t . They may have charisma and pedigree in their respective movements, but sooner or later that complete lack of intelligence will always shine through.

I'd happily see 5 years of a starmer led Labour party with a sensible tory leader in opposition. I hope Labour are tough with the red wall tories aswell. I'd imagine a few will be looking to defect . Labour need to tell them where to go, and then beat them in the election.

[the other bob wilson]

There really is no way of saying whether the country would have been in a better or worse position than it is now if Labour had been in power for those 12 years, given it is hypothetical and it just is not possible to compare. An individual's viewpoint is going to be driven by their own politics so if you're left wing you'll think it would have been better and if you're right wing you'll think it would have been worse.

Historians love counter factual scenarios, and almost every occasion, counter factual tends to result in convergence with actual events in the long run. Given most political decisions only tweak around the edges, certainly in respect of the economy, my view is that we'd probably be exactly where we are today.

I take on board what you say, but I think we would have seen a lot less austerity in the second half of the last decade and I doubt it if we would now be out of the EU - Brexit was totally a Conservative construct.

[WJ99mobile]

Am I the only person in the country who actually quite likes Starmer ? I'd happily vote for him. The only thing that puts me off the Labour Party are the amount of loonies associated who are still throwing their toys out the pram about corbyn being kicked out. The hard done by 'worlds against us' narrative is almost trumpian in nature. The biggest drawback both corbyn and Johnson have is that they are both as thick as dogsh*t . They may have charisma and pedigree in their respective movements, but sooner or later that complete lack of intelligence will always shine through.

I'd happily see 5 years of a starmer led Labour party with a sensible tory leader in opposition. I hope Labour are tough with the red wall tories aswell. I'd imagine a few will be looking to defect . Labour need to tell them where to go, and then beat them in the election.

Basically he’s just boring.

Tory light is probably what the country actually needs. Tory policy enacted by less self serving people.

[North Cardiff Blue]

No I disagree - I'm no fan of Kier particularly but Labour don't want him to be charged with "having some food" in Durham, as that will allow it to be easily manipulated from "tory sleaze" to "they're all as bad as each other"

Boris was dragging the Tory party down, but also did attract his own supporters through his personality - I#ve heard plenty of them on radio phone ins - not really dyed in the wool tories, but prepared to make excuse after excuse for good old boris, after all he's trying his best etc, I don't see the Tories suddenly leaping back to a huge lead in the polls now they've got rid of him, and there's every chance they'll elect someone pretty woeful to follow, as none of the main candidates are very inspiring.

I also think the damage that has been done to public confidence won't be as easy to win back by changing the man at the top.

Some good points!

I think the damage is already done, if you interview Mrs Miggins in the Cotswolds she will say theyre all as bad as each other.

The wrong appointment could take them down, it's like new football Manager time get it right they are away, get the appointment wrong and theyre relegated.

Personally I think they'll get it right and win the League by ten points easily.

Starmers a wet wipe I just watched him on BBC he's so lame!

[life on mars]

Some good points!

I think the damage is already done, if you interview Mrs Miggins in the Cotswolds she will say theyre all as bad as each other.

The wrong appointment could take them down, it's like new football Manager time get it right they are away, get the appointment wrong and theyre relegated.

Personally I think they'll get it right and win the League by ten points easily.

Starmers a wet wipe I just watched him on BBC he's so lame!

Hey wet wipes matter , and add value to help in times of need ..

[Pearcey3]

I take on board what you say, but I think we would have seen a lot less austerity in the second half of the last decade and I doubt it if we would now be out of the EU - Brexit was totally a Conservative construct.

Yep and we definitely would not be out of the EU as Miliband had ruled out a referendum prior to the 2015 GE.
Just look at the explosion of food banks and homeless since 2010. Yet our national debt is so much greater than it was back then.
Our hospitals and schools are desperately struggling, the economy is on the brink of another recession, rampant inflation, labour shortages life expectancy stagnant etc etc. This is before we even mention all the lies and corruption.

We need a Burnham Labour led Govt before these c*nts destroy what’s left.

[rudy gestede]

There really is no way of saying whether the country would have been in a better or worse position than it is now if Labour had been in power for those 12 years, given it is hypothetical and it just is not possible to compare. An individual's viewpoint is going to be driven by their own politics so if you're left wing you'll think it would have been better and if you're right wing you'll think it would have been worse.

Historians love counter factual scenarios, and almost every occasion, counter factual tends to result in convergence with actual events in the long run. Given most political decisions only tweak around the edges, certainly in respect of the economy, my view is that we'd probably be exactly where we are today.

We wouldn’t have had brexit which was the stupidest decision economically we could ever have done. And when you consider why it was brought in all because Cameron was afraid of ukip I can’t think it could have possibly been worse.

[Doucas]

Am I the only person in the country who actually quite likes Starmer ? I'd happily vote for him. The only thing that puts me off the Labour Party are the amount of loonies associated who are still throwing their toys out the pram about corbyn being kicked out. The hard done by 'worlds against us' narrative is almost trumpian in nature. The biggest drawback both corbyn and Johnson have is that they are both as thick as dogsh*t . They may have charisma and pedigree in their respective movements, but sooner or later that complete lack of intelligence will always shine through.

I'd happily see 5 years of a starmer led Labour party with a sensible tory leader in opposition. I hope Labour are tough with the red wall tories aswell. I'd imagine a few will be looking to defect . Labour need to tell them where to go, and then beat them in the election.

What policies of Starmer do you like? Do you like the fact that after he was elected Labour leader he almost instantly said he'd get rid of the 10 pledges he made to get elected Prime Minister.

Why is Corbyn thick as dog shit, be specific.

[life on mars]

Yep and we definitely would not be out of the EU as Miliband had ruled out a referendum prior to the 2015 GE.
Just look at the explosion of food banks and homeless since 2010. Yet our national debt is so much greater than it was back then.
Our hospitals and schools are desperately struggling, the economy is on the brink of another recession, rampant inflation, labour shortages life expectancy stagnant etc etc. This is before we even mention all the lies and corruption.

We need a Burnham Labour led Govt before these c*nts destroy what’s left.

But hasn't theses people been in power in the UK for the majority of this century including the Blair Tory lite government , we are not actually at the bottom of the financial , poverty and global influencing league , folk , business , migrants around the world see us in a different light??

Are we suggesting that the country Labour would have grown under Ed Miliband (who I voted for) and Corbyn / McDonald and Abbott ?

Labour should have better managed its post Blair world better and not allowed its own in house party battles , that has seen so many good capable Labour MP's lost to us if they had just built on the good Blair tactic's you'd not be seeing all this shite , sadly when you mention Blair to many Labour voter's they resort to 4 letter swearing ....

Yes David Miliband was the perfect answer , sadly the Labour party go it wrong not the Tories , they should have the insight , self control to build on it instead of creating a left v centrists war that turned millions away form them ..

[North Cardiff Blue]

We wouldn’t have had brexit which was the stupidest decision economically we could ever have done. And when you consider why it was brought in all because Cameron was afraid of ukip I can’t think it could have possibly been worse.

Get over it!

[North Cardiff Blue]

Wow don't you, big tax payer then are you?

Never received any benefits?

Yes thought not!

So you vote for what suits you best!

[rudy gestede]

Get over it!

What does that even mean?

Do you mean ignore the worst decision a government has made in recent memory?

Or

Do you mean ignore the billion a year out economy is already losing out on?

[Doucas]

Get over it!

You know you have no argument when you say things like that.

Have repeatedly waited for a single tangible benefit of Brexit and still haven't heard of one. It'll be reversed within 20 years once the current elderly pass on. Incredibly selfish vote.

[Doucas]

What does that even mean?

Do you mean ignore the worst decision a government has made in recent memory?

Or

Do you mean ignore the billion a year out economy is already losing out on?

Costing £100 billion a year according to https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/po...a-year-328442/

[rudy gestede]

Yes thought not!

So you vote for what suits you best!

What does that have to do with voting Tory or Labour?

Me and my mrs are both in the higher rate tax bands and vote for left wing parties and neither of us have ever received a benefit.

I find the idea that based on what you earn to be the most short sighted and stupid thing a person could do.

[North Cardiff Blue]

You know you have no argument when you say things like that.

Have repeatedly waited for a single tangible benefit of Brexit and still haven't heard of one. It'll be reversed within 20 years once the current elderly pass on. Incredibly selfish vote.

It's not an argument, I'd say the same if he was saying we could have won the FA cup if we had a better keeper than Enckleman or if Dave Jones had brought Ramsey on earlier!

[North Cardiff Blue]

What does that have to do with voting Tory or Labour?

Me and my mrs are both in the higher rate tax bands and vote for left wing parties and neither of us have ever received a benefit.

I find the idea that based on what you earn to be the most short sighted and stupid thing a person could do.

Have you worked for many years under a Labour Government not New Labour ?

Thats the exception rather than the rule, the majority of people vote for what would suit them and their Family best, that changes as you have older children and Grandchildren of course.

[rudy gestede]

It's not an argument, I'd say the same if he was saying we could have won the FA cup if we had a better keeper than Enckleman or if Dave Jones had brought Ramsey on earlier!

Someone literally said we couldn’t have predicted what would have happened with a different government. But we can 100% say that if Labour had got in that year we wouldn’t have financially knee capped the country.

[rudy gestede]

Thats the exception rather than the rule, the majority of people vote for what would suit them and their Family best, that changes as you have older children of course.

Then why the **** are we saddled with a Tory government that does **** all for the majority of the country?

[life on mars]

Someone literally said we couldn’t have predicted what would have happened with a different government. But we can 100% say that if Labour had got in that year we wouldn’t have financially knee capped the country.

What evidence do you have ?? did they know about Corvid and Ukraine war turning the world upside down , didn't the last Labour Treasury occupant leave a note saying there was nothing left in the kitty

[rudy gestede]

What evidence do you have ?? did they know about Corvid and Ukraine war turning the world upside down , didn't the last Labour Treasury occupant leave a note saying there was nothing left in the kitty

We are talking about brexit mate

Isn’t that note or something similar left by a government when they depart? Or are we still blaming Labour for a global recession while giving the tories a pass for this one?