Speed limit to be lowered to 20mph in Wales

[Organ Morgan.]

The phone rings.

Mark Drakeford: Hello.

Klaus Schwab: Flakeboard, or vhatever the hell your name is, ve vant fewer motorists on the roads polluting lungs vith their stinking fossil fuels. Drop ze speed limit.

Mark Drakeford: Yes, master.

[Citizen's Nephew]

So many grown men throwing a strop at a 10mph speed reduction. Take it to the track guys.

[Wales-Bales]

Only if you're in denial.

That's a strange response to a factual statement

[poc]

I know, what about this WFH thing I hear people talking about. Who cares about 20mph commuting then?

just said on the radio the sennedd are going to allow more to keep working from home as its easier on them for care reasons

[Wales-Bales]

So many grown men throwing a strop at a 10mph speed reduction. Take it to the track guys.

I'm keeping my strop in reserve until they announce 0mph.

[Cyclops]

So we've got all these figures about chances of pedestrians being killed by vehicles travelling at various speeds.

P'raps we could have a straw poll on here of how many posters have actually killed/hit someone while driving.

I've been driving for almost fifty years and have never been close to hitting someone.

[rudy gestede]

So we've got all these figures about chances of pedestrians being killed by vehicles travelling at various speeds.

P'raps we could have a straw poll on here of how many posters have actually killed/hit someone while driving.

I've been driving for almost fifty years and have never been close to hitting someone.

I don’t think that is useful statistical evidence tbh. Should we have a straw poll of how many posters have stabbed someone too? And decide based off that if knife crime is an issue or not.

[Citizen's Nephew]

just said on the radio the sennedd are going to allow more to keep working from home as its easier on them for care reasons

Seems perfectly reasonable to me.

[Citizen's Nephew]

I love that I'm a point of anger, like I've somehow caused all of this. It's really funny and flattering to think I have that much power. I'd say, that roughly translated, most people who are angry are really angry at not being able to do drive how they want, when they want and at whatever speed they want. Some are angry at the Sendedd even existing. Others are angry because it's Welsh Labour. Some are angry because it's all of these things.

I'm checking out here but I'll ask you all this question. Do you all stick rigidly to the speed limits that are currently in place?

[JamesWales]

Breaking news: Driving through north Cardiff his morning, I found someone who was actually adhering to the 20mph limit. Doesn't happen often.

[The Bloop]

just said on the radio the sennedd are going to allow more to keep working from home as its easier on them for care reasons

It's probably so that they can fit 96 MS's into 60 desks in the debating chamber. I'd expect my elected representatives to actually be there, not sat at home working(as I currently am 😄)

[Tuerto]

This isn't that difficult. Speed limit comes down to 20mph, people don't drive over 30mph. Speed limit stays at 30mph, some people drive at 35-40 mph, which is very dangerous in a City. I would say that apart from Eric, who has put over a really good argument over public transport etc, that most who are objecting to the drop in speed limit just hate any form of regulation from this Labour government, the same ones who spat out their cornflakes over some cycle lanes, and how that would be catastrophic in terms of accidents etc. ****ing chill out a bit, you've got too much time on your hands. For a walk or get a push bike, it'll calm you down a bit.

[HiVis]

which bus routes are driving for 5 miles through 20mph roads?

all of them will be soon enough

[JamesWales]

I love that I'm a point of anger, like I've somehow caused all of this. It's really funny and flattering to think I have that much power. I'd say, that roughly translated, most people who are angry are really angry at not being able to do drive how they want, when they want and at whatever speed they want. Some are angry at the Sendedd even existing. Others are angry because it's Welsh Labour. Some are angry because it's all of these things.

I'm checking out here but I'll ask you all this question. Do you all stick rigidly to the speed limits that are currently in place?

Surely people can just object to a policy on the grounds without all of that? I support the senedd, I'd like it to have more powers, but on balance I don't think a blanket 20mph rule in all built up areas is a good thing.

[neilw65]

I love that I'm a point of anger, like I've somehow caused all of this. It's really funny and flattering to think I have that much power. I'd say, that roughly translated, most people who are angry are really angry at not being able to do drive how they want, when they want and at whatever speed they want. Some are angry at the Sendedd even existing. Others are angry because it's Welsh Labour. Some are angry because it's all of these things.

I'm checking out here but I'll ask you all this question. Do you all stick rigidly to the speed limits that are currently in place?

I agree with what you have said throughout this thread.

My frustration with transport in South Wales, particularly when attending events in Cardiff, (I live near Use) is that public transport is shocking. There needs to be greater investment in infrastructure, and quickly, to enable safer cycling, Rail and Bus.

[Rjk]

The police will presumably give people a while to get used to the new speed limit, then initially start pulling people over and telling them not to speed before they start to fine people.

It's really not that hard to get used to it, and as long as they can be a bit sensible about keeping them main through roads at 30 then it will have a minimal impact on most people.

As I said earlier, I drive across North Cardiff several times a week, and it's a minor inconvenience.

If this reduction saves lives then how many lives would it have to save before it becomes worth the hassle? For me personally if it saves one kids life then of course I can cope with some journeys taking a few minutes longer.
Is there anyone who doesn't think that is worthwhile?

[HiVis]

The police will presumably give people a while to get used to the new speed limit, then initially start pulling people over and telling them not to speed before they start to fine people.

It's really not that hard to get used to it, and as long as they can be a bit sensible about keeping them main through roads at 30 then it will have a minimal impact on most people.

As I said earlier, I drive across North Cardiff several times a week, and it's a minor inconvenience.

If this reduction saves lives then how many lives would it have to save before it becomes worth the hassle? For me personally if it saves one kids life then of course I can cope with some journeys taking a few minutes longer.
Is there anyone who doesn't think that is worthwhile?

Given there is still a risk of dying if you hit someone at 20mph, the logical step is to ban driving altogether. That way, we can reduce the risk of killing anyone to nil. If life preservation is the reason then we should go the whole hog rather than the half arsed measure conjured up by Drakeford.

[+ the native hipster]

I'm struggling to follow your argument but not your maths. I think you're arguing that a 70% survival rate at being hit by 'a vehicle' is good? I think that's from the viewpoint of the driver and not the pedestrian. It's important to note that vehicles, like people, come in all shapes and sizes.

there is quite a big difference between 90% and 30%, if the welsh government are saying 90% of pedestrians will die in a 40mph crash they are lying . perhaps we should bring back tufty and teach people road safety

[Wales-Bales]

Given there is still a risk of dying if you hit someone at 20mph, the logical step is to ban driving altogether. That way, we can reduce the risk of killing anyone to nil. If life preservation is the reason then we should go the whole hog rather than the half arsed measure conjured up by Drakeford.

Don't give them any ideas, we saw how enthusiastic they were with the lockdowns!

[delmbox]

Surely people can just object to a policy on the grounds without all of that? I support the senedd, I'd like it to have more powers, but on balance I don't think a blanket 20mph rule in all built up areas is a good thing.

Well according to your breaking news earlier in the thread people don't adhere to it anyway so what's the issue?

[Citizen's Nephew]

I agree with what you have said throughout this thread.

My frustration with transport in South Wales, particularly when attending events in Cardiff, (I live near Use) is that public transport is shocking. There needs to be greater investment in infrastructure, and quickly, to enable safer cycling, Rail and Bus.

I totally agree with you. It is shocking. It's something that, if I didn't live within easy(ish) walking distance of the city centre, I'd not bother with Cardiff and would move to a city that had a better public transport.

I think the implementation of cycle lanes and connecting networks has been awful. When the next bikes arrived there was no system in pedestrianised areas to safely use them, there still isn't. All this is part of a wider culture change to work and transport that's needed in the UK. Cardiff is not good at this stuff and Tuerto's right to say that Eric has made really good points and arguments about the effect of these restrictions. However, I agree with Rjk that keeping the bus network at 30mph would be the obvious solution.

James is right insomuch that you can object to wanting to have a blanket restriction for whatever reason and it doesn't have to be political. In fairness to James, he said it was stupid without referring to any political party or governance.

Cardiff's public transport system is sh*t. The implementation of cycle lanes is sh*t. Duty of care for pedestrians of all ages is sh*t. It's been like that for too long. So what do you want done about it? It's no good writing and complaining on here, do it to the Council and the Senedd. Campaigning and activism is hard f*cking work. It's slow and frustrating but it's the only way for me as I've given up on party politics and deal directly with people accountable.

When you're too afraid to walk around streets in Cardiff because of speeding traffic, or you don't go out because of fear, or you don't walk to the football because you feel unsafe, then surely we, as a community, should be trying to do something. It's not perfect and it's a blanket approach, but it will slow people down eventually, and for me and many others, that's a good thing.

I don't know, but I think a lot of people just either don't walk enough around Cardiff, or live in places where speeding cars are not a problem. You literally, have to walk in someone else's shoes to understand this stuff.

[Lither_1927]

Why do you give a shit?

Lol

[goats]

The police will presumably give people a while to get used to the new speed limit, then initially start pulling people over and telling them not to speed before they start to fine people.

It's really not that hard to get used to it, and as long as they can be a bit sensible about keeping them main through roads at 30 then it will have a minimal impact on most people.

As I said earlier, I drive across North Cardiff several times a week, and it's a minor inconvenience.

If this reduction saves lives then how many lives would it have to save before it becomes worth the hassle? For me personally if it saves one kids life then of course I can cope with some journeys taking a few minutes longer.
Is there anyone who doesn't think that is worthwhile?

It is a hassle I think, mainly because I find it difficult to remember to go 20. Even more so when there is no traffic about. I stick to it religiously by roath park as I know there is a speed camera there, but I’ve always got a car right up my arse the whole way

[JamesWales]

Well according to your breaking news earlier in the thread people don't adhere to it anyway so what's the issue?

That IS part of the issue. It's pointless. Costs money and undermines peoples faith in traffic regulations. And when people do adhere, it feels artificially slow, frustrating other drivers, leading to potentially dangerous overtaking and all the rest. Taxi drivers and bus drivers will feel obliged to stick to it, making those modes less viable.

It's OTT and just didn't need doing. Anyone who drives recklessly still does it. This just punishes those who drove sensibly, which on many roads in suburban Cardiff may be upto 30mph.

[neilw65]

I totally agree with you. It is shocking. It's something that, if I didn't live within easy(ish) walking distance of the city centre, I'd not bother with Cardiff and would move to a city that had a better public transport.

I think the implementation of cycle lanes and connecting networks has been awful. When the next bikes arrived there was no system in pedestrianised areas to safely use them, there still isn't. All this is part of a wider culture change to work and transport that's needed in the UK. Cardiff is not good at this stuff and Tuerto's right to say that Eric has made really good points and arguments about the effect of these restrictions. However, I agree with Rjk that keeping the bus network at 30mph would be the obvious solution.

James is right insomuch that you can object to wanting to have a blanket restriction for whatever reason and it doesn't have to be political. In fairness to James, he said it was stupid without referring to any political party or governance.

Cardiff's public transport system is sh*t. The implementation of cycle lanes is sh*t. Duty of care for pedestrians of all ages is sh*t. It's been like that for too long. So what do you want done about it? It's no good writing and complaining on here, do it to the Council and the Senedd. Campaigning and activism is hard f*cking work. It's slow and frustrating but it's the only way for me as I've given up on party politics and deal directly with people accountable.

When you're too afraid to walk around streets in Cardiff because of speeding traffic, or you don't go out because of fear, or you don't walk to the football because you feel unsafe, then surely we, as a community, should be trying to do something. It's not perfect and it's a blanket approach, but it will slow people down eventually, and for me and many others, that's a good thing.

I don't know, but I think a lot of people just either don't walk enough around Cardiff, or live in places where speeding cars are not a problem. You literally, have to walk in someone else's shoes to understand this stuff.

It appears that (to someone who doesn't live in Cardiff) that they are gradually improving on the installation of cycle lanes. Albeit very slowly.

To improve the infrastructure in not only Cardiff, but South Wales as a whole, there needs to be radical thinking. I don't think this is a political thing, more that people are so against moving away from cars and the convenience they provide.

I think it needs people prepared to take on that radical way of think in the way that Andy Turnham and Chris Boardman have for Manchester.