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Thread: Tommy Doyle.

  1. #41

    Re: Tommy Doyle.

    Quote Originally Posted by WJ99mobile View Post
    I donít want to shit on one of our own, but Doyle is a much better footballer at the moment than Colwill

    Thereís promise for them both mind! Hopefully Colwill can become a star
    Disagree. Colwill has match winning ability, Doyle doesnít. Doyle types are ten a penny in academy football.

  2. #42

    Re: Tommy Doyle.

    Quote Originally Posted by J R Hartley View Post
    Disagree. Colwill has match winning ability, Doyle doesn’t. Doyle types are ten a penny in academy football.
    I think you're both right, Doyle might be technically better at the moment but I think Colwill's ceiling might be higher

  3. #43

    Re: Tommy Doyle.

    Quote Originally Posted by WJ99mobile View Post
    I donít want to shit on one of our own, but Doyle is a much better footballer at the moment than Colwill

    Thereís promise for them both mind! Hopefully Colwill can become a star
    Not for me, Doyle is neat and tidy but lacks the X factor Colwill has.

  4. #44

    Re: Tommy Doyle.

    Quote Originally Posted by J R Hartley View Post
    The narrative is clear. He was in and out of the team for the under 23s and Mick put him in the first team at 19, tied him down to a pro contract asap, whilst all the while waxing lyrical about him. So much so he end up getting into the Welsh squad.

    As soon as Morison was allowed to bring in his own players in January, Colwill was mainly used as a sub or not at all, even put back in the under 23s for a period, until we were safe and he then played some 90 mins in the end of season dead rubbers. In my mind to appease the supporters as it looked to me like he, Morison, doesn’t know how to play with a 10.

    We will soon see once the league starts wether we are building a side around him or not. No doubt you will still do your usual Comical Ali impression and deny what is obvious to others.
    That's how I see it and it's one of the reasons I'm not hugely confident in Morison (and haven't bought into some of the crap on Twitter about him being this great manager). It's obvious to anyone who watched us last season that Colwill was one of the few bright spots and he'll only get better

  5. #45

    Re: Tommy Doyle.

    Quote Originally Posted by J R Hartley View Post
    The narrative is clear. He was in and out of the team for the under 23s and Mick put him in the first team at 19, tied him down to a pro contract asap, whilst all the while waxing lyrical about him. So much so he end up getting into the Welsh squad.

    As soon as Morison was allowed to bring in his own players in January, Colwill was mainly used as a sub or not at all, even put back in the under 23s for a period, until we were safe and he then played some 90 mins in the end of season dead rubbers. In my mind to appease the supporters as it looked to me like he, Morison, doesnít know how to play with a 10.

    We will soon see once the league starts wether we are building a side around him or not. No doubt you will still do your usual Comical Ali impression and deny what is obvious to others.
    I donít disagree that Colwill is at least as good a prospect as Doyle, but I donít see them as similar players which makes the comparisons pretty meaningless.
    Your view on Morison however feels to me that it significantly taints your objectivity, which of course is totally your prerogative, but for me devalues some of what you write.

  6. #46

    Re: Tommy Doyle.

    Quote Originally Posted by City123 View Post
    That's how I see it and it's one of the reasons I'm not hugely confident in Morison (and haven't bought into some of the crap on Twitter about him being this great manager). It's obvious to anyone who watched us last season that Colwill was one of the few bright spots and he'll only get better
    But he might not get better, although I really hope that he does, and he ends up being that creative spark that we have lacked in the final third, for what seems forever. Some players possess certain attributes and then have the ability to improve on their weaknesses or certainly learn how to.compensate for them. I'm not sure Colwill has that ability yet. He's still very raw and he reminds me of Earlier a bit in terms of how everything he did was instinctive, which served him so well, but if Earlier had that little bit of intelligence, then he would have been a premier league striker. I like Colwill and it's obvious he possesses natural attacking flair. I really hope that he develops, or gets so good in the final third that the rest of his game doesn't really matter.

  7. #47

    Re: Tommy Doyle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuerto View Post
    But he might not get better, although I really hope that he does, and he ends up being that creative spark that we have lacked in the final third, for what seems forever. Some players possess certain attributes and then have the ability to improve on their weaknesses or certainly learn how to.compensate for them. I'm not sure Colwill has that ability yet. He's still very raw and he reminds me of Earlier a bit in terms of how everything he did was instinctive, which served him so well, but if Earlier had that little bit of intelligence, then he would have been a premier league striker. I like Colwill and it's obvious he possesses natural attacking flair. I really hope that he develops, or gets so good in the final third that the rest of his game doesn't really matter.
    Reminds me of Earnie, in terms of instinct

  8. #48

    Re: Tommy Doyle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuerto View Post
    But he might not get better, although I really hope that he does, and he ends up being that creative spark that we have lacked in the final third, for what seems forever. Some players possess certain attributes and then have the ability to improve on their weaknesses or certainly learn how to.compensate for them. I'm not sure Colwill has that ability yet. He's still very raw and he reminds me of Earlier a bit in terms of how everything he did was instinctive, which served him so well, but if Earlier had that little bit of intelligence, then he would have been a premier league striker. I like Colwill and it's obvious he possesses natural attacking flair. I really hope that he develops, or gets so good in the final third that the rest of his game doesn't really matter.
    The thing that tells me that he does have that and will kick on further is the repeated inclusion in the Wales squads even though his league form arguably didn't warrant it. He was called up to the Euros having played about half an hour of senior football and has continued to be picked in a Wales squad that's managed to qualify for a World Cup, there's obviously something there otherwise he'd be left at home during the international breaks.

    His link up play with Brennan Johnson showed as well that there was more to his game than pure instinct, he suffered in the team last season as we either played incredibly crap hoofball or pretty basic hold it up then get it to the wings, there was very little emphasis on getting the ball down in the middle of the pitch and actually playing, when he was paired with someone who does that in Johnson he shined

  9. #49

    Re: Tommy Doyle.

    Quote Originally Posted by City123 View Post
    The thing that tells me that he does have that and will kick on further is the repeated inclusion in the Wales squads even though his league form arguably didn't warrant it. He was called up to the Euros having played about half an hour of senior football and has continued to be picked in a Wales squad that's managed to qualify for a World Cup, there's obviously something there otherwise he'd be left at home during the international breaks.

    His link up play with Brennan Johnson showed as well that there was more to his game than pure instinct, he suffered in the team last season as we either played incredibly crap hoofball or pretty basic hold it up then get it to the wings, there was very little emphasis on getting the ball down in the middle of the pitch and actually playing, when he was paired with someone who does that in Johnson he shined
    Fair enough, and a decent point about having better players around him. I really do hope that he turns out to be a special player, the ability is there, it's how he develops from now on.

  10. #50

    Re: Tommy Doyle.

    Quote Originally Posted by dml1954 View Post
    Doyle is a totally different type of player to Whittingham and Mcphail, so a direct comparison is a bit pointless. Plus Doyle was only 20 years old when here. I dare say at 20 that both Whittingham and Mcphail had a fair bit of improving to do and I would believe that Doyle is already showing enough potential to end up better than both.
    Bullshit.

  11. #51

    Re: Tommy Doyle.

    Quote Originally Posted by City123 View Post
    His link up play with Brennan Johnson showed as well that there was more to his game than pure instinct, he suffered in the team last season as we either played incredibly crap hoofball or pretty basic hold it up then get it to the wings, there was very little emphasis on getting the ball down in the middle of the pitch and actually playing, when he was paired with someone who does that in Johnson he shined
    It's a good point but I think Johnson is something special and for me, the most exciting Welsh player probably since Bale and is going to have a much bigger career than Colwill. I'm not knocking the lad, I like him, but I'm rooting for him because he's 'one of our own' and not because I think he's got what it takes to kick on. At Cardiff, we don't have players like Johnson so it's all moot anyway. Even when Harry Wilson was here, it was mixed because he didn't have the players around him to shine. Put it this way, Johnson'll be in the shop window if Forest go down this season and I believe will have a great future with the Welsh team and PL (or overseas). My gut says that Colwill will drop off the radar. My heart says, I hope that isn't the case.

  12. #52

    Re: Tommy Doyle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen's Nephew View Post
    It's a good point but I think Johnson is something special and for me, the most exciting Welsh player probably since Bale and is going to have a much bigger career than Colwill. I'm not knocking the lad, I like him, but I'm rooting for him because he's 'one of our own' and not because I think he's got what it takes to kick on. At Cardiff, we don't have players like Johnson so it's all moot anyway. Even when Harry Wilson was here, it was mixed because he didn't have the players around him to shine. Put it this way, Johnson'll be in the shop window if Forest go down this season and I believe will have a great future with the Welsh team and PL (or overseas). My gut says that Colwill will drop off the radar. My heart says, I hope that isn't the case.
    Johnson will have a top career. No doubt about it.

  13. #53

    Re: Tommy Doyle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen's Nephew View Post
    It's a good point but I think Johnson is something special and for me, the most exciting Welsh player probably since Bale and is going to have a much bigger career than Colwill. I'm not knocking the lad, I like him, but I'm rooting for him because he's 'one of our own' and not because I think he's got what it takes to kick on. At Cardiff, we don't have players like Johnson so it's all moot anyway. Even when Harry Wilson was here, it was mixed because he didn't have the players around him to shine. Put it this way, Johnson'll be in the shop window if Forest go down this season and I believe will have a great future with the Welsh team and PL (or overseas). My gut says that Colwill will drop off the radar. My heart says, I hope that isn't the case.
    Colwill has loads of ability, he just walks past people. He needs a system for him to shine in though. And he doesnít have that speed to get away from people. Needs to get past his man and then give it, thatís the challenge. Johnson is going to have a terrific career. Heís nailed on to be a PL footballer for years

  14. #54

    Re: Tommy Doyle.

    Quote Originally Posted by StraightOuttaCanton View Post
    I donít disagree that Colwill is at least as good a prospect as Doyle, but I donít see them as similar players which makes the comparisons pretty meaningless.
    Your view on Morison however feels to me that it significantly taints your objectivity, which of course is totally your prerogative, but for me devalues some of what you write.
    My dislike of Morison, for reasons Iím not going to go into for the millionth time, it is no secret I donít like him and maybe I am a bit over critical but I think Iíve backed up my point with balance and facts. A little bit of conjecture because of things Iím privy to but people can chose to believe they want. Itís all about opinions at the end of the day and it is my opinion that Morison doesnít really fancy Colwill and doesnít know where to fit him into his best XI.

    It is prerogative of course, itís 100% his team now. Only time will tell if I am right on this or if I will have to wait humble pie.

    If he can fit a creative Colwill into the team and he comes up with the goods I will gladly do so.

  15. #55

    Re: Tommy Doyle.

    If Morison doesn't rate Colwill, then we are better shot of Morison.
    Personally I don't rate him as manager and we can dump the pair of them, him and his inflated ego as far as I'm concerned

  16. #56

    Re: Tommy Doyle.

    Quote Originally Posted by J R Hartley View Post
    Utter bollocks. By the time Whitts was Doyles age (20, nearly 21) he had wracked up 50 PL appearances for Villa.

    Mcphail was a regular for Leeds in the Premier League at 19.

    Doyle is nowhere near as good as either of them.
    How many more Premier League appearances did they make in the next ten years?

  17. #57

    Re: Tommy Doyle.

    Quote Originally Posted by J R Hartley View Post
    My dislike of Morison, for reasons I’m not going to go into for the millionth time, it is no secret I don’t like him and maybe I am a bit over critical but I think I’ve backed up my point with balance and facts. A little bit of conjecture because of things I’m privy to but people can chose to believe they want. It’s all about opinions at the end of the day and it is my opinion that Morison doesn’t really fancy Colwill and doesn’t know where to fit him into his best XI.

    It is prerogative of course, it’s 100% his team now. Only time will tell if I am right on this or if I will have to wait humble pie.

    If he can fit a creative Colwill into the team and he comes up with the goods I will gladly do so.
    I'd agree that Colwill doesn't seem like a natural fit for the way that Morison is wanting to play, but I think he will still be able to make an impact this season.

    I think Morison was pretty accurate when he said that Colwill was excellent with the ball in the transitional phase, and he wants to push him to raise his game without the ball. Maybe Colwill will improve that aspect of his game, or maybe the extra pace and dynamism we've added to the midfield will mean that we get the likes of Colwill on the ball in dangerous areas against a disorganised defence more often.
    But we will see.

    What's clear is that he always wants the young players to be striving to improve and raise their level all the time, hopefully that is successful.

    Could go either way this season, and Morison hasn't achieved anything yet, so it's fair game to criticise him. I want Morison to be successful - while I've not agreed with everything he's done I think there have been a few indications that we are moving in a better direction as a club.

  18. #58

    Re: Tommy Doyle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    I'd agree that Colwill doesn't seem like a natural fit for the way that Morison is wanting to play, but I think he will still be able to make an impact this season.

    I think Morison was pretty accurate when he said that Colwill was excellent with the ball in the transitional phase, and he wants to push him to raise his game without the ball. Maybe Colwill will improve that aspect of his game, or maybe the extra pace and dynamism we've added to the midfield will mean that we get the likes of Colwill on the ball in dangerous areas against a disorganised defence more often.
    But we will see.

    What's clear is that he always wants the young players to be striving to improve and raise their level all the time, hopefully that is successful.

    Could go either way this season, and Morison hasn't achieved anything yet, so it's fair game to criticise him. I want Morison to be successful - while I've not agreed with everything he's done I think there have been a few indications that we are moving in a better direction as a club.
    Maybe Colwill canít do that side of the game. Maybe it will come as he gets older. He doesnít seem the aggressive type heís laid back like Whitts it seems.

    Do you make allowances because of the creativity and attacking positives he brings? Morison doesnt seem that type to me but we shall see.

    Only time will tell.

  19. #59

    Re: Tommy Doyle.

    Quote Originally Posted by J R Hartley View Post
    Maybe Colwill can’t do that side of the game. Maybe it will come as he gets older. He doesn’t seem the aggressive type he’s laid back like Whitts it seems.

    Do you make allowances because of the creativity and attacking positives he brings? Morison doesnt seem that type to me but we shall see.

    Only time will tell.
    Yeah he's never going to be Ngolo Kante without the ball, but I'm all for pushing the younger ones to keep improving, that's often the difference between those who make an initial impact and then fade away and those who eventually get to the top.

  20. #60

    Re: Tommy Doyle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa View Post
    Colwill has loads of ability, he just walks past people. He needs a system for him to shine in though. And he doesnít have that speed to get away from people. Needs to get past his man and then give it, thatís the challenge. Johnson is going to have a terrific career. Heís nailed on to be a PL footballer for years
    I agree, but over the last few seasons we've had four managers and variations of the same awful football. I honestly can't say I know where Colwill will fit this season, and tbh I don't think our club is the best place for him. He does have loads of ability but it's wasted with us, our setup, our 'style', our managers and the players and formation(s) around him. This season might be different. Might. I really like the lad, but I think he's been hindered by us more than helped imo. The best thing for him has been selected early in the Wales squad but it must be frustrating to come back to us and not really know what his role is.

    I do kind of wonder what Cooper would have done with him in his Forest setup for example.

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