I Hate Keir Starmer - Tom Whyman - Gawker

[jon1959]

The 2019 manifesto was the 2017 one on steroids with further spending commitments added during the campaign and the party was humiliated.

The 2019 manifesto was the 2017 one buried under an incoherent 'cop out' Brexit 'policy'.

It was balanced in that it pissed off Remainers and Leavers equally. Remind me who was the author of that policy? Not the Shadow Brexit Secretary, surely? That nice Keir Starmer? Corbyn has to take final responsibility as leader, but as is clear from the Forde Report amongst other sources, he was not in control of the PLP or Labour officials.

And whilst we're throwing the 'on steroids' label about - it certainly applies to the media abuse of Corbyn. There is no way that his treatment by the media was the norm for Labour leaders - it was on steroids and more.

He may have brought some of that on himself - although I doubt we will agree on when and how that happened - but it was way off the scale of what any other Labour leader ever got. I suppose the world has changed with the arrival of mass social media, but a simple comparison of newspaper front pages makes it clear enough.

[Swiss Peter]

The 2019 manifesto was the 2017 one buried under an incoherent 'cop out' Brexit 'policy'.

It was balanced in that it pissed off Remainers and Leavers equally. Remind me who was the author of that policy? Not the Shadow Brexit Secretary, surely? That nice Keir Starmer? Corbyn has to take final responsibility as leader, but as is clear from the Forde Report amongst other sources, he was not in control of the PLP or Labour officials.

And whilst we're throwing the 'on steroids' label about - it certainly applies to the media abuse of Corbyn. There is no way that his treatment by the media was the norm for Labour leaders - it was on steroids and more.

He may have brought some of that on himself - although I doubt we will agree on when and how that happened - but it was way off the scale of what any other Labour leader ever got. I suppose the world has changed with the arrival of mass social media, but a simple comparison of newspaper front pages makes it clear enough.

Who would you like to see at the helm, Jon?

[jon1959]

Who would you like to see at the helm, Jon?

If the Labour Party remains a 'broad church social democratic party' with organisational, political and financial roots in the trade union movement, I would be happy to see a unity leader who could draw support from all sides like Andy Burnham. He is of the 'soft left' as I think it was once called, is experienced in Westminster (Cabinet and Shadow Cabinet), refused to take part in the Chicken Coup against Corbyn, and has shown the scope for local/regional political and social action as Mayor of Greater Manchester. I think he has credibility, experience and the skills needed to hold the PLP and wider Labour Party together.

Burnham can't stand at the moment under the current rules as he isn't an MP. I would also prefer to see Labour finally electing a woman as leader. But I think he is the best bet.

The Labour left don't have any obvious candidates. Some have the same strengths and weaknesses as Corbyn (great campaigners and communicators with live audiences, but poor as party managers or at the Westminster ritual). I like Clive Lewis, Dawn Butler and a wider group of younger (often black and female) Campaign Group MPs - but they don't tick enough boxes to survive.

If the FPTP system is dumped for PR, and at the same time Labour cuts its ties to the trades union movement, my automatic support for Labour would be gone. In that situation I would back the British Melenchon - whoever that might be.

[Swiss Peter]

If the Labour Party remains a 'broad church social democratic party' with organisational, political and financial roots in the trade union movement, I would be happy to see a unity leader who could draw support from all sides like Andy Burnham. He is of the 'soft left' as I think it was once called, is experienced in Westminster (Cabinet and Shadow Cabinet), refused to take part in the Chicken Coup against Corbyn, and has shown the scope for local/regional political and social action as Mayor of Greater Manchester. I think he has credibility, experience and the skills needed to hold the PLP and wider Labour Party together.

Burnham can't stand at the moment under the current rules as he isn't an MP. I would also prefer to see Labour finally electing a woman as leader. But I think he is the best bet.

The Labour left don't have any obvious candidates. Some have the same strengths and weaknesses as Corbyn (great campaigners and communicators with live audiences, but poor as party managers or at the Westminster ritual). I like Clive Lewis, Dawn Butler and a wider group of younger (often black and female) Campaign Group MPs - but they don't tick enough boxes to survive.

If the FPTP system is dumped for PR, and at the same time Labour cuts its ties to the trades union movement, my automatic support for Labour would be gone. In that situation I would back the British Melenchon - whoever that might be.

Thanks for the response. Interesting to read.

[HiVis]

I would also prefer to see Labour finally electing a woman as leader.

I have to ask why? Surely you want the best person for the role, and that may be a man or woman.

[Claude Blue]

The 2019 manifesto was the 2017 one buried under an incoherent 'cop out' Brexit 'policy'.

It was balanced in that it pissed off Remainers and Leavers equally. Remind me who was the author of that policy? Not the Shadow Brexit Secretary, surely? That nice Keir Starmer? Corbyn has to take final responsibility as leader, but as is clear from the Forde Report amongst other sources, he was not in control of the PLP or Labour officials.

And whilst we're throwing the 'on steroids' label about - it certainly applies to the media abuse of Corbyn. There is no way that his treatment by the media was the norm for Labour leaders - it was on steroids and more.

He may have brought some of that on himself - although I doubt we will agree on when and how that happened - but it was way off the scale of what any other Labour leader ever got. I suppose the world has changed with the arrival of mass social media, but a simple comparison of newspaper front pages makes it clear enough.

I agree with you on the Brexit policy, it was a mess. The party was totally cornered by Brexit with the majority being remainers but a hardcore of hard left members supporting a ridiculous and fanciful "Lexit." IMHO this last group included Corbyn, who I believe was disingenuous in his support of remain. As you have alluded to, Corbyn had no control over the party and any party lacking strong leadership is doomed to fail.

Yes, Corbyn was treated appallingly by most of the media but he did bring a lot on to himself with documented comments and associations. Often clipped and exaggerated but that's what happens to Labour leaders. His recent comments about Ukraine shows clearly that he was never fit to lead the Labour Party or be PM. WTF is he doing speaking to a Lebanon TV station with links to Iran and the Assad regime in Syria?