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Thread: I Hate Keir Starmer - Tom Whyman - Gawker

  1. #1

    I Hate Keir Starmer - Tom Whyman - Gawker

    I didn't vote for Starmer in the leadership elections and resigned my Labour Party membership within 6 months of his election. I found this article by the philosopher Tom Whyman in Gawker struck a chord on so many levels.

    https://www.gawker.com/politics/i-hate-keir-starmer

  2. #2

    Re: I Hate Keir Starmer - Tom Whyman - Gawker

    I've just been reading the synopsis of Tom Whyman's book https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/b...by-tom-whyman/ which I think I'll have a read of as it looks like it could be just the tonic.

  3. #3
    International jon1959's Avatar
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    Re: I Hate Keir Starmer - Tom Whyman - Gawker

    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen's Nephew View Post
    I didn't vote for Starmer in the leadership elections and resigned my Labour Party membership within 6 months of his election. I found this article by the philosopher Tom Whyman in Gawker struck a chord on so many levels.

    https://www.gawker.com/politics/i-hate-keir-starmer
    Interesting piece. I agree with most of that. Not sure he totally held my attention with the philosophical section. And I hate (!) the imported Americanism 'gotten' that he uses. But other than a few minor quibbles, he has put in words what I think too. Keir Starmer is a wet wipe!

  4. #4

    Re: I Hate Keir Starmer - Tom Whyman - Gawker

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    Interesting piece. I agree with most of that. Not sure he totally held my attention with the philosophical section. And I hate (!) the imported Americanism 'gotten' that he uses. But other than a few minor quibbles, he has put in words what I think too. Keir Starmer is a wet wipe!
    I had a similar experience to you with regard to the Hotel California thing of being able to check in any time you want but you can never leave.

    I ended up composing a letter and sent it to every one of the shadow cabinet, all key head office officials etc. It was only after that I stopped getting emails. In fairness, Bute Labour were really good and I had a great reply from them. Nothing from Starmer.

    The sad thing is, he's not even an environmentally friendly flushable wet wipe!

    I get what you mean about the style of the piece and felt it needed sub-editing but overall, it needs/needed saying.

  5. #5

    Re: I Hate Keir Starmer - Tom Whyman - Gawker

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    Interesting piece. I agree with most of that. Not sure he totally held my attention with the philosophical section. And I hate (!) the imported Americanism 'gotten' that he uses. But other than a few minor quibbles, he has put in words what I think too. Keir Starmer is a wet wipe!
    At least 'gotten' is old English.

  6. #6

    Re: I Hate Keir Starmer - Tom Whyman - Gawker

    Who is Sir Kier ( is it okay to refer to his elite title these days )

    Where is he ??

    Corbyn/Lynch axis are more in the news ??

  7. #7
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    Re: I Hate Keir Starmer - Tom Whyman - Gawker

    Quote Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie View Post
    At least 'gotten' is old English.
    I always hoped someone would tell me that 'dude' is the Old English for a recipient of Danegeld.

    Someone who has gotten backhanders?

  8. #8

    Re: I Hate Keir Starmer - Tom Whyman - Gawker

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    Who is Sir Kier ( is it okay to refer to his elite title these days )

    Where is he ??

    Corbyn/Lynch axis are more in the news ??
    1. He's the Leader of HM Opposition.
    2. He's likely to be in London

    Next?

  9. #9

    Re: I Hate Keir Starmer - Tom Whyman - Gawker

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    I always hoped someone would tell me that 'dude' is the Old English for a recipient of Danegeld.

    Someone who has gotten backhanders?
    Try this starter from 1883 (and I can't improve the quality of the original image):

    220px-1883_-_origin_of_dude_-_Chicago_Tribune_-_25_Feb_1883.jpg

  10. #10

    Re: I Hate Keir Starmer - Tom Whyman - Gawker

    Quote Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie View Post
    Try this starter from 1883 (and I can't improve the quality of the original image):

    220px-1883_-_origin_of_dude_-_Chicago_Tribune_-_25_Feb_1883.jpg
    Source: Chicago Tribune (although it's out of copyright)

  11. #11

    Re: I Hate Keir Starmer - Tom Whyman - Gawker

    I voted for him and remain reasonably happy with his leadership of the party.

    Not concerned that some find him boring. We've just had three years of a clown in charge and look where that's got us. Politics is not a branch of entertainment, give me decency and competence any day of the week.

    Don't forget the mess that Corbyn left. An 80 seat Tory majority and trailing 20% or more in opinion polls.

    The party has a much more competent front bench as it moves to being regarded as a government in waiting rather than just a party of protest.

    Lots to do and I'd like to see more dynamism and policy initiatives, which will hopefully come in the autumn via the party conference.

  12. #12

    Re: I Hate Keir Starmer - Tom Whyman - Gawker

    Quote Originally Posted by Claude Blue View Post
    I voted for him and remain reasonably happy with his leadership of the party.

    Not concerned that some find him boring. We've just had three years of a clown in charge and look where that's got us. Politics is not a branch of entertainment, give me decency and competence any day of the week.

    Don't forget the mess that Corbyn left. An 80 seat Tory majority and trailing 20% or more in opinion polls.

    The party has a much more competent front bench as it moves to being regarded as a government in waiting rather than just a party of protest.

    Lots to do and I'd like to see more dynamism and policy initiatives, which will hopefully come in the autumn via the party conference.
    I'm torn on this because I was a HUGE Corbyn fan.

    In my opinion Starmer is mediocre at best and probably more suited to being a left wing member of the Tory ranks. He can't fill Jeremy's boots which of course, is a big big ask of anyone.

    On the other hand, where my agreement with your synopsis lies, is that the country is not yet ready for a true left wing government so sadly we have to make a sop to the right wing to be able to have a chance in getting rid of the Tories. In that respect, paradoxically, I can sympathize with Starmer's strategy of appearing to curry favour with the right wing majority of the country.

  13. #13

    Re: I Hate Keir Starmer - Tom Whyman - Gawker

    Quote Originally Posted by Dorcus View Post
    I'm torn on this because I was a HUGE Corbyn fan.

    In my opinion Starmer is mediocre at best and probably more suited to being a left wing member of the Tory ranks. He can't fill Jeremy's boots which of course, is a big big ask of anyone.

    On the other hand, where my agreement with your synopsis lies, is that the country is not yet ready for a true left wing government so sadly we have to make a sop to the right wing to be able to have a chance in getting rid of the Tories. In that respect, paradoxically, I can sympathize with Starmer's strategy of appearing to curry favour with the right wing majority of the country.
    We'll have to agree to disagree on Corbyn as I don't want to fall out

  14. #14
    International jon1959's Avatar
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    Re: I Hate Keir Starmer - Tom Whyman - Gawker

    Quote Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie View Post
    Source: Chicago Tribune (although it's out of copyright)
    So Dude is a corruption of Dodo!

  15. #15
    International jon1959's Avatar
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    Re: I Hate Keir Starmer - Tom Whyman - Gawker

    Quote Originally Posted by Claude Blue View Post
    I voted for him and remain reasonably happy with his leadership of the party.

    Not concerned that some find him boring. We've just had three years of a clown in charge and look where that's got us. Politics is not a branch of entertainment, give me decency and competence any day of the week.

    Don't forget the mess that Corbyn left. An 80 seat Tory majority and trailing 20% or more in opinion polls.

    The party has a much more competent front bench as it moves to being regarded as a government in waiting rather than just a party of protest.

    Lots to do and I'd like to see more dynamism and policy initiatives, which will hopefully come in the autumn via the party conference.
    I know we won't agree on Corbyn - or the reasons for the 2019 election failure - but to suggest that Starmer presents either decency or competence is beyond me. We have discussed this before, but to my mind he is an incompetent, a serial liar (not in Johnson's league - but bad enough) and (at best) an apologist and enabler of racists inside and outside the Labour Party.

    Despite that a Labour government under Starmer is much better than any of the options on offer by the Tories. I will vote Labour again (as I have done at every GE since 1979) but without any enthusiasm.

  16. #16

    Re: I Hate Keir Starmer - Tom Whyman - Gawker

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    I know we won't agree on Corbyn - or the reasons for the 2019 election failure - but to suggest that Starmer presents either decency or competence is beyond me. We have discussed this before, but to my mind he is an incompetent, a serial liar (not in Johnson's league - but bad enough) and (at best) an apologist and enabler of racists inside and outside the Labour Party.

    Despite that a Labour government under Starmer is much better than any of the options on offer by the Tories. I will vote Labour again (as I have done at every GE since 1979) but without any enthusiasm.
    It actually saddens me to read this Jon.

    Again I've no desire to fall out with you but to accuse Starmer of being "an apologist and enabler of racists" whilst ignoring the behaviour of Corbyn and his acolytes is quite shocking.

    I don't believe Starmer is incompetent, although the next GE will decide that.

    As for being a liar - I assume because of the 10 pledges nonsense - we all need to accept that the world has moved on and that the priorities of 2020 may not be the same as now. None of us know how many of these pledges will be in the next manifesto - who knows, you maybe pleasantly surprised.

    On the other hand maybe try some pragmatism and accept you wont get everything you want from any political party.

  17. #17

    Re: I Hate Keir Starmer - Tom Whyman - Gawker

    For what it's worth, and as someone who has voted Labour, Tory and Lib Dem in recent elections, I can say I am far more likely to vote Labour with Starmer in charge. I would never have considered it under Corbyn but my vote is up for grabs now, and like it or not, it is floating voters that tend to decide elections.

  18. #18

    Re: I Hate Keir Starmer - Tom Whyman - Gawker

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesWales View Post
    For what it's worth, and as someone who has voted Labour, Tory and Lib Dem in recent elections, I can say I am far more likely to vote Labour with Starmer in charge. I would never have considered it under Corbyn but my vote is up for grabs now, and like it or not, it is floating voters that tend to decide elections.
    That's pretty much where I stand too.

    I stopped reading the link in the OP half way through the second paragraph. Seemed a bit puerile to me.

  19. #19

    Re: I Hate Keir Starmer - Tom Whyman - Gawker

    I will never vote Labour again .

  20. #20

    Re: I Hate Keir Starmer - Tom Whyman - Gawker

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesWales View Post
    For what it's worth, and as someone who has voted Labour, Tory and Lib Dem in recent elections, I can say I am far more likely to vote Labour with Starmer in charge. I would never have considered it under Corbyn but my vote is up for grabs now, and like it or not, it is floating voters that tend to decide elections.
    This

    Labour under Starmer are far more electable than under Cornyn.

    The UK is predominantly centre right, and Blair gave Labour their best performances in GE by shifting to the centre.

    Whenever Labour shift left they end up with dismal results in GE (Foot and Corbyn).

    Whilst some may want a true left wing government, acceptance that the best we'll get is centre left may go someway to achieving some of the outcomes that are desired

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