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Thread: I Hate Keir Starmer - Tom Whyman - Gawker

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  1. #1

    I Hate Keir Starmer - Tom Whyman - Gawker

    I didn't vote for Starmer in the leadership elections and resigned my Labour Party membership within 6 months of his election. I found this article by the philosopher Tom Whyman in Gawker struck a chord on so many levels.

    https://www.gawker.com/politics/i-hate-keir-starmer

  2. #2

    Re: I Hate Keir Starmer - Tom Whyman - Gawker

    I've just been reading the synopsis of Tom Whyman's book https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/b...by-tom-whyman/ which I think I'll have a read of as it looks like it could be just the tonic.

  3. #3
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    Re: I Hate Keir Starmer - Tom Whyman - Gawker

    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen's Nephew View Post
    I didn't vote for Starmer in the leadership elections and resigned my Labour Party membership within 6 months of his election. I found this article by the philosopher Tom Whyman in Gawker struck a chord on so many levels.

    https://www.gawker.com/politics/i-hate-keir-starmer
    Interesting piece. I agree with most of that. Not sure he totally held my attention with the philosophical section. And I hate (!) the imported Americanism 'gotten' that he uses. But other than a few minor quibbles, he has put in words what I think too. Keir Starmer is a wet wipe!

  4. #4

    Re: I Hate Keir Starmer - Tom Whyman - Gawker

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    Interesting piece. I agree with most of that. Not sure he totally held my attention with the philosophical section. And I hate (!) the imported Americanism 'gotten' that he uses. But other than a few minor quibbles, he has put in words what I think too. Keir Starmer is a wet wipe!
    I had a similar experience to you with regard to the Hotel California thing of being able to check in any time you want but you can never leave.

    I ended up composing a letter and sent it to every one of the shadow cabinet, all key head office officials etc. It was only after that I stopped getting emails. In fairness, Bute Labour were really good and I had a great reply from them. Nothing from Starmer.

    The sad thing is, he's not even an environmentally friendly flushable wet wipe!

    I get what you mean about the style of the piece and felt it needed sub-editing but overall, it needs/needed saying.

  5. #5

    Re: I Hate Keir Starmer - Tom Whyman - Gawker

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    Interesting piece. I agree with most of that. Not sure he totally held my attention with the philosophical section. And I hate (!) the imported Americanism 'gotten' that he uses. But other than a few minor quibbles, he has put in words what I think too. Keir Starmer is a wet wipe!
    At least 'gotten' is old English.

  6. #6
    International jon1959's Avatar
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    Re: I Hate Keir Starmer - Tom Whyman - Gawker

    Quote Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie View Post
    At least 'gotten' is old English.
    I always hoped someone would tell me that 'dude' is the Old English for a recipient of Danegeld.

    Someone who has gotten backhanders?

  7. #7

    Re: I Hate Keir Starmer - Tom Whyman - Gawker

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    I always hoped someone would tell me that 'dude' is the Old English for a recipient of Danegeld.

    Someone who has gotten backhanders?
    Try this starter from 1883 (and I can't improve the quality of the original image):

    220px-1883_-_origin_of_dude_-_Chicago_Tribune_-_25_Feb_1883.jpg

  8. #8

    Re: I Hate Keir Starmer - Tom Whyman - Gawker

    Quote Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie View Post
    Try this starter from 1883 (and I can't improve the quality of the original image):

    220px-1883_-_origin_of_dude_-_Chicago_Tribune_-_25_Feb_1883.jpg
    Source: Chicago Tribune (although it's out of copyright)

  9. #9

    Re: I Hate Keir Starmer - Tom Whyman - Gawker

    I voted for him and remain reasonably happy with his leadership of the party.

    Not concerned that some find him boring. We've just had three years of a clown in charge and look where that's got us. Politics is not a branch of entertainment, give me decency and competence any day of the week.

    Don't forget the mess that Corbyn left. An 80 seat Tory majority and trailing 20% or more in opinion polls.

    The party has a much more competent front bench as it moves to being regarded as a government in waiting rather than just a party of protest.

    Lots to do and I'd like to see more dynamism and policy initiatives, which will hopefully come in the autumn via the party conference.

  10. #10

    Re: I Hate Keir Starmer - Tom Whyman - Gawker

    Who is Sir Kier ( is it okay to refer to his elite title these days )

    Where is he ??

    Corbyn/Lynch axis are more in the news ??

  11. #11

    Re: I Hate Keir Starmer - Tom Whyman - Gawker

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    Who is Sir Kier ( is it okay to refer to his elite title these days )

    Where is he ??

    Corbyn/Lynch axis are more in the news ??
    1. He's the Leader of HM Opposition.
    2. He's likely to be in London

    Next?

  12. #12

    Re: I Hate Keir Starmer - Tom Whyman - Gawker

    Quote Originally Posted by Claude Blue View Post
    I voted for him and remain reasonably happy with his leadership of the party.

    Not concerned that some find him boring. We've just had three years of a clown in charge and look where that's got us. Politics is not a branch of entertainment, give me decency and competence any day of the week.

    Don't forget the mess that Corbyn left. An 80 seat Tory majority and trailing 20% or more in opinion polls.

    The party has a much more competent front bench as it moves to being regarded as a government in waiting rather than just a party of protest.

    Lots to do and I'd like to see more dynamism and policy initiatives, which will hopefully come in the autumn via the party conference.
    I'm torn on this because I was a HUGE Corbyn fan.

    In my opinion Starmer is mediocre at best and probably more suited to being a left wing member of the Tory ranks. He can't fill Jeremy's boots which of course, is a big big ask of anyone.

    On the other hand, where my agreement with your synopsis lies, is that the country is not yet ready for a true left wing government so sadly we have to make a sop to the right wing to be able to have a chance in getting rid of the Tories. In that respect, paradoxically, I can sympathize with Starmer's strategy of appearing to curry favour with the right wing majority of the country.

  13. #13

    Re: I Hate Keir Starmer - Tom Whyman - Gawker

    Quote Originally Posted by Dorcus View Post
    I'm torn on this because I was a HUGE Corbyn fan.

    In my opinion Starmer is mediocre at best and probably more suited to being a left wing member of the Tory ranks. He can't fill Jeremy's boots which of course, is a big big ask of anyone.

    On the other hand, where my agreement with your synopsis lies, is that the country is not yet ready for a true left wing government so sadly we have to make a sop to the right wing to be able to have a chance in getting rid of the Tories. In that respect, paradoxically, I can sympathize with Starmer's strategy of appearing to curry favour with the right wing majority of the country.
    We'll have to agree to disagree on Corbyn as I don't want to fall out

  14. #14

    Re: I Hate Keir Starmer - Tom Whyman - Gawker

    For what it's worth, and as someone who has voted Labour, Tory and Lib Dem in recent elections, I can say I am far more likely to vote Labour with Starmer in charge. I would never have considered it under Corbyn but my vote is up for grabs now, and like it or not, it is floating voters that tend to decide elections.

  15. #15

    Re: I Hate Keir Starmer - Tom Whyman - Gawker

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesWales View Post
    For what it's worth, and as someone who has voted Labour, Tory and Lib Dem in recent elections, I can say I am far more likely to vote Labour with Starmer in charge. I would never have considered it under Corbyn but my vote is up for grabs now, and like it or not, it is floating voters that tend to decide elections.
    That's pretty much where I stand too.

    I stopped reading the link in the OP half way through the second paragraph. Seemed a bit puerile to me.

  16. #16

    Re: I Hate Keir Starmer - Tom Whyman - Gawker

    I will never vote Labour again .

  17. #17

    Re: I Hate Keir Starmer - Tom Whyman - Gawker

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    I will never vote Labour again .
    Not even if they espouse exactly the same things as they did when you previously voted for them?

  18. #18

    Re: I Hate Keir Starmer - Tom Whyman - Gawker

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesWales View Post
    For what it's worth, and as someone who has voted Labour, Tory and Lib Dem in recent elections, I can say I am far more likely to vote Labour with Starmer in charge. I would never have considered it under Corbyn but my vote is up for grabs now, and like it or not, it is floating voters that tend to decide elections.
    This

    Labour under Starmer are far more electable than under Cornyn.

    The UK is predominantly centre right, and Blair gave Labour their best performances in GE by shifting to the centre.

    Whenever Labour shift left they end up with dismal results in GE (Foot and Corbyn).

    Whilst some may want a true left wing government, acceptance that the best we'll get is centre left may go someway to achieving some of the outcomes that are desired

  19. #19

    Re: I Hate Keir Starmer - Tom Whyman - Gawker

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    I will never vote Labour again .
    Why? You have no idea what is going to happen tomorrow and what your priorities will be.

    This is as myopic as those who say they'll never vote Tory.

  20. #20

    Re: I Hate Keir Starmer - Tom Whyman - Gawker

    Imagine if we had an election without the weight of the billionaire owned newspapers and media hammering Corbyn because he was the only one who would have genuinely changed things for the better.

    Starmer is a liar and I'll void my vote before voting for him, may as well have another five years of conservatives if he gets in charge.

  21. #21

    Re: I Hate Keir Starmer - Tom Whyman - Gawker

    Quote Originally Posted by Doucas View Post
    Imagine if we had an election without the weight of the billionaire owned newspapers and media hammering Corbyn because he was the only one who would have genuinely changed things for the better.

    Starmer is a liar and I'll void my vote before voting for him, may as well have another five years of conservatives if he gets in charge.
    Sadly your last paragraph is why we end up with Conservative governments.

    The newspapers and media have always hammered Labour, Corbyn was in no way unique in this - apart from giving them plenty of ammunition.

    Perhaps you can afford a continuous Conservative government, millions can't. If you thought Johnson was bad just you wait for Truss or Sunak. Truss has already stated that her priority is tax cuts and that there will be no further "handouts" (her words) and Sunak has already shown his true colours as a reverse Robin Hood.

    But Starmer won't give you everything you want so to hell with the poorest and most vulnerable in our society. May I suggest you wait and see what Labour proposes for what should be an emergency budget in the autumn and for the next GE?

  22. #22

    Re: I Hate Keir Starmer - Tom Whyman - Gawker

    Quote Originally Posted by Claude Blue View Post
    Sadly your last paragraph is why we end up with Conservative governments.

    The newspapers and media have always hammered Labour, Corbyn was in no way unique in this - apart from giving them plenty of ammunition.

    Perhaps you can afford a continuous Conservative government, millions can't. If you thought Johnson was bad just you wait for Truss or Sunak. Truss has already stated that her priority is tax cuts and that there will be no further "handouts" (her words) and Sunak has already shown his true colours as a reverse Robin Hood.

    But Starmer won't give you everything you want so to hell with the poorest and most vulnerable in our society. May I suggest you wait and see what Labour proposes for what should be an emergency budget in the autumn and for the next GE?
    I agree. Increasingly, I’ve got little time for Starmer, but the Tories used to talk about putting “clear, blue water” between them and Labour, well this lot have put oceans of it between the two thanks in main to Johnson’s purge of some of the restraining elements on the One Nation wing of his party over Brexit (the nutters who complain about a “Remainers Brexit” are the driving force within the Conservatives now). Starmer’s not perfect, but his Government would not be like a mark 2 of this one - I would like to see Labour start to prove this by being more proactive about their own policies though.

  23. #23

    Re: I Hate Keir Starmer - Tom Whyman - Gawker

    Quote Originally Posted by Claude Blue View Post
    Sadly your last paragraph is why we end up with Conservative governments.

    The newspapers and media have always hammered Labour, Corbyn was in no way unique in this - apart from giving them plenty of ammunition.

    Perhaps you can afford a continuous Conservative government, millions can't. If you thought Johnson was bad just you wait for Truss or Sunak. Truss has already stated that her priority is tax cuts and that there will be no further "handouts" (her words) and Sunak has already shown his true colours as a reverse Robin Hood.

    But Starmer won't give you everything you want so to hell with the poorest and most vulnerable in our society. May I suggest you wait and see what Labour proposes for what should be an emergency budget in the autumn and for the next GE?
    What will Starmer give though? He lied to become leader and has thrown out his ten pledges. He won't even stand with workers during protests. As far as I can tell there is no difference between him and the tories. Tell me, how will he make the lives of the poor and vulnerable better, be specific.

  24. #24

    Re: I Hate Keir Starmer - Tom Whyman - Gawker

    Quote Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie View Post
    Not even if they espouse exactly the same things as they did when you previously voted for them?
    I think it goes deeper and it's personal. My guess is he applied to be a Labour Councillor and was turned down or something of that ilk.

  25. #25

    Re: I Hate Keir Starmer - Tom Whyman - Gawker

    Why do you guys believe that any Labour government is always better than a Tory one? I don't. I think sensible countries flick between centre-right and centre-left every ten years or so. Which is what makes Wales such an outlier.

    We've had a Labour government wholly in charge of education here for 23 years now. My kids currently going through the system, many others on here too. What is really better about it? The rhetoric is that Labour is better for poorer people, but is there that much evidence of that, certainly in terms of education anyway? Strikes me that if you are poorer then you have more life opportunities in England than Wales. Perhaps this idea that 'any labour govt will be better than Truss / Sunak' needs reconsidering?

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-politics-29688799

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