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Thread: Say there’d been no Covid and

  1. #1

    Say there’d been no Covid and

    Football finances in general were in the same shape as they were in 19/20, how much do you reckon we would have to spend in transfer fees if all of the players we’ve signed permanently this summer had, say, a year left on their contracts?

    For me, it would be in the region of £10 million and I think that’s a pretty conservative estimate.

  2. #2
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    Re: Say there’d been no Covid and

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Football finances in general were in the same shape as they were in 19/20, how much do you reckon we would have to spend in transfer fees if all of the players we’ve signed permanently this summer had, say, a year left on their contracts?

    For me, it would be in the region of £10 million and I think that’s a pretty conservative estimate.
    If you think 10 million is conservative then it clearly isn't your guess. Both statement cannot be correct shirley?

  3. #3

    Re: Say there’d been no Covid and

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Football finances in general were in the same shape as they were in 19/20, how much do you reckon we would have to spend in transfer fees if all of the players we’ve signed permanently this summer had, say, a year left on their contracts?

    For me, it would be in the region of £10 million and I think that’s a pretty conservative estimate.
    At least £10m, probably closer to £15m. At least Covid has brought sensibility to something.

  4. #4

    Re: Say there’d been no Covid and

    I can only speculate at your pure speculation

  5. #5

    Re: Say there’d been no Covid and

    Very little as they are all pretty unknowns who have shown some potential, perhaps Alsop is worth a fee.

  6. #6

    Re: Say there’d been no Covid and

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Football finances in general were in the same shape as they were in 19/20, how much do you reckon we would have to spend in transfer fees if all of the players we’ve signed permanently this summer had, say, a year left on their contracts?

    For me, it would be in the region of £10 million and I think that’s a pretty conservative estimate.
    Have you been on the sauce this evening?

    “Imagine it’s 2019, Covid-19 never happened and players that didn’t have contracts actually had contracts. Do you think the moon would be made of cheese?”

  7. #7

    Re: Say there’d been no Covid and

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman View Post
    Have you been on the sauce this evening?

    “Imagine it’s 2019, Covid-19 never happened and players that didn’t have contracts actually had contracts. Do you think the moon would be made of cheese?”
    Steve Morison has expressed his frustration on a couple of occasions about how the squad he has put together is perceived. I’ve not checked his claim that the players we have brought in have over 900 Championship appearances between them, but it sounds about right to me and offers evidence that we have not been signing total unknowns who might sink or swim at this level.

    Football finances at levels below the Premier League have changed markedly since the onset of Covid with one of the consequences being that the number and quality of players not having their contracts renewed has increased. What is not logical in thinking that we would have to pay transfer fees to bring in some of the players we’ve signed if we were still in the pre Covid world where clubs were more likely to renew the contracts of players than they are now?

    Players with the experience and quality of some we’ve signed (eg Sawyers, Rinomhota, Allsop, Romeo, O’Dowda) only became available for nothing very rarely pre Covid when there was a lot more money in the game than there is now and it’s my view that it would have cost millions to bring the players in we have over the summer in the not too distant past - they aren’t the bunch of waifs and strays some accuse them of being.

  8. #8

    Re: Say there’d been no Covid and

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Players with the experience and quality of some we’ve signed (eg Sawyers, Rinomhota, Allsop, Romeo, O’Dowda) only became available for nothing very rarely pre Covid when there was a lot more money in the game than there is now and it’s my view that it would have cost millions to bring the players in we have over the summer in the not too distant past - they aren’t the bunch of waifs and strays some accuse them of being.
    I’m not sure what the manager did or didn’t say, so I have no opinions on that, but I think the paragraph I’ve quoted above is nonsense.

    The individual circumstances of the players you’ve mentioned would have been no different pre-Covid. I’m not suggesting they were free transfers because they are no good, far from it in most cases, but out of contract players have been moving from club to club in the Championship for many years.

    Allsop has had 12 clubs and has never attracted a transfer fee. Romeo had fallen out of favour at Millwall and was on loan in League One last season. Sawyers wasn’t in West Brom’s plans last season and it was no surprise at all when he was released. Ojo’s release by Liverpool was fully expected. Bristol City decided against triggering an extension to O’Dowda’s contract, and while Reading would no doubt have liked to keep Rinomhota, he was out of contract at a club that has been lurching from one crisis to another in recent years.

    City certainly seem to have worked well in the transfer window this summer and appear to have done some good business, but I think the gist of your post is nonsensical.

  9. #9

    Re: Say there’d been no Covid and

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Football finances in general were in the same shape as they were in 19/20, how much do you reckon we would have to spend in transfer fees if all of the players we’ve signed permanently this summer had, say, a year left on their contracts?

    For me, it would be in the region of £10 million and I think that’s a pretty conservative estimate.
    How many of these players were available because of COVID ? I don't know, but I do think that their 'worth' has to £10m - that's £750k per player - about right.

  10. #10

    Re: Say there’d been no Covid and

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman View Post
    I’m not sure what the manager did or didn’t say, so I have no opinions on that, but I think the paragraph I’ve quoted above is nonsense.

    The individual circumstances of the players you’ve mentioned would have been no different pre-Covid. I’m not suggesting they were free transfers because they are no good, far from it in most cases, but out of contract players have been moving from club to club in the Championship for many years.

    Allsop has had 12 clubs and has never attracted a transfer fee. Romeo had fallen out of favour at Millwall and was on loan in League One last season. Sawyers wasn’t in West Brom’s plans last season and it was no surprise at all when he was released. Ojo’s release by Liverpool was fully expected. Bristol City decided against triggering an extension to O’Dowda’s contract, and while Reading would no doubt have liked to keep Rinomhota, he was out of contract at a club that has been lurching from one crisis to another in recent years.

    City certainly seem to have worked well in the transfer window this summer and appear to have done some good business, but I think the gist of your post is nonsensical.
    It becomes nonsensical if we were always going to get all of those experienced and able Championship performers for nothing whether Covid happened or not. I think there was absolutely no chance of that happening. There is no way that we would have been able to perform a rebuilding job of the scale we have done this summer on the budget we had and ended up with a squad which could compete at this level were it not for the higher number of players good enough to play at Championship level available in the free transfer market because of the losses clubs made during lockdowns and periods when the grounds were closed.

  11. #11

    Re: Say there’d been no Covid and

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    It becomes nonsensical if we were always going to get all of those experienced and able Championship performers for nothing whether Covid happened or not. I think there was absolutely no chance of that happening. There is no way that we would have been able to perform a rebuilding job of the scale we have done this summer on the budget we had and ended up with a squad which could compete at this level were it not for the higher number of players good enough to play at Championship level available in the free transfer market because of the losses clubs made during lockdowns and periods when the grounds were closed.
    So which of the players City have signed for nothing do you believe they would have been unable to sign for nothing had Covid not happened and why?

  12. #12
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    Re: Say there’d been no Covid and

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    It becomes nonsensical if we were always going to get all of those experienced and able Championship performers for nothing whether Covid happened or not. I think there was absolutely no chance of that happening. There is no way that we would have been able to perform a rebuilding job of the scale we have done this summer on the budget we had and ended up with a squad which could compete at this level were it not for the higher number of players good enough to play at Championship level available in the free transfer market because of the losses clubs made during lockdowns and periods when the grounds were closed.
    But if the clubs releasing the players had not made those covid-caused losses it could be fair to assume we wouldn't have either and so would have been in a better position to buy players anyway because the budget we would have would have been different from the budget we actually had.(Allegedly)
    As things stand it would seem that every cloud has a silver lining!

  13. #13

    Re: Say there’d been no Covid and

    on transfermarkt the value of the new signings are about £14.5m (including 3.5ish for the loan signings).

    not sure how they work their values out, and they often bear little relation to actual transfer fees.

    their total for the club is about £27m which is middling championship I think.

  14. #14

    Re: Say there’d been no Covid and

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman View Post
    So which of the players City have signed for nothing do you believe they would have been unable to sign for nothing had Covid not happened and why?
    I understand your point but you don’t appear willing to understand Bob’s. Could it be that pre-covid these players may have had their contracts renewed (or are do you think they were ready for the football scrapheap?).

    If we’d tried to sign them all when they had 12 or 13 months on their deals do you think the clubs would have just let them go for free (of course that would have been a possibility) or would they have commanded a fee.

    If what we read is true, many of the players we’ve signed had multiple offers to consider. In a world where they still had contracts that strikes me as a plausible reason why their previous clubs would probably have been able to command a fee for their services. I suspect the club knew the contracts were winding down and had engaged the players many months ago… sort of a bit like the situation we had with Flint, a £5m defender on a big contract who clubs likely wanted at this level but were prepared to wait out his contract rather than pay a fee during the last 12 months of his deal.

  15. #15

    Re: Say there’d been no Covid and

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Football finances in general were in the same shape as they were in 19/20, how much do you reckon we would have to spend in transfer fees if all of the players we’ve signed permanently this summer had, say, a year left on their contracts?

    For me, it would be in the region of £10 million and I think that’s a pretty conservative estimate.
    I think it is a bit of a moot point as I don’t think we or any other team let as many deals expire

    It’s never been this easy for a manager to assemble a new team.

  16. #16

    Re: Say there’d been no Covid and

    Quote Originally Posted by StraightOuttaCanton View Post
    I understand your point but you don’t appear willing to understand Bob’s. Could it be that pre-covid these players may have had their contracts renewed (or are do you think they were ready for the football scrapheap?).
    Pre-Covid, I don’t think any of the players City have signed would have had their contracts renewed or in a couple of cases would have accepted contract offers from their clubs. But that doesn’t mean they were on the football scrap heap by any means, it’s just down to their circumstances or the circumstances of the clubs they were at.

    City have signed plenty of decent out-of-contract players over the years, and have released plenty of decent players too. It happens regularly.

  17. #17

    Re: Say there’d been no Covid and

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman View Post
    So which of the players City have signed for nothing do you believe they would have been unable to sign for nothing had Covid not happened and why?
    I mentioned five of them in an earlier post, but I would mention that Romeo was a regular at Millwall until he fell out with their supporters over BLM/taking the knee.

  18. #18

    Re: Say there’d been no Covid and

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    I mentioned five of them in an earlier post, but I would mention that Romeo was a regular at Millwall until he fell out with their supporters over BLM/taking the knee.
    So why do you think the circumstances would have been different pre-Covid for any of the players you mentioned? Do you think West Brom would have offered Sawyers a new contract? Do you think Allsop would have stayed at Derby in League One? Do you think Rinomhota would have accepted a new deal at Reading? Do you reckon Bristol would have exercised their option of another year for O’Dowda?

    I don’t, I think each player was due to move on for varying reasons, and I don’t think that would have been any different pre-Covid.

  19. #19

    Re: Say there’d been no Covid and

    why do people have such a difficulty with the concept of trying to make an assessment of roughly how much value we've added to the squad with the free transfers?

  20. #20

    Re: Say there’d been no Covid and

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    why do people have such a difficulty with the concept of trying to make an assessment of roughly how much value we've added to the squad with the free transfers?
    That’s not what the thrust of Bob’s opening post was. He presented a hypothetical and, in my opinion, a nonsensical situation based around Covid-19.

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