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Thread: Sunak

  1. #21

    Re: Sunak

    They'll cross out Sunak and Truss on their ballot papers and vote Boris back in.

  2. #22

    Re: Sunak

    Quote Originally Posted by Cleve van Leef View Post
    Would you vote for this scumbag?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-62436193
    What’s the alternative??

  3. #23

    Re: Sunak

    Quote Originally Posted by ABLUEBIRD View Post
    What’s the alternative??
    Liz Truss

    But I can't stand the Tories and would rather be shot than vote for them

  4. #24

    Re: Sunak

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    Liz Truss

    But I can't stand the Tories and would rather be shot than vote for them
    I suppose one benefit of the Tories veering further to the right is that there's more middle ground for Labour to mop up, even with the inept Starmer. I genuinely feel that there are some who feel that Britain is now a right wing country, particularly after Brexit, but it's not true at all. Theresa May couldn't get an overall majority against Corbyn. Johnson, the class clown, appealed to lots of people, not because he was a Tory, but because he'd spent years creating his image on TV. There's nobody in the Conservative Party capable of wooing the electorate like Johnson. Sadly, there are few elsewhere in any party capable of it, either.

  5. #25

    Re: Sunak

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    I suppose one benefit of the Tories veering further to the right is that there's more middle ground for Labour to mop up, even with the inept Starmer. I genuinely feel that there are some who feel that Britain is now a right wing country, particularly after Brexit, but it's not true at all. Theresa May couldn't get an overall majority against Corbyn. Johnson, the class clown, appealed to lots of people, not because he was a Tory, but because he'd spent years creating his image on TV. There's nobody in the Conservative Party capable of wooing the electorate like Johnson. Sadly, there are few elsewhere in any party capable of it, either.
    The Tories sometimes manage to pull 4 out of 10 voters and that's enough as the opposition is divided .

    That still means that 6 out of 10 people who vote don't vote Tory

    So if the tory stranglehold on power is to be loosened we need a decent labour party, a decent liberal party or a united opposition .

  6. #26

    Re: Sunak

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    The Tories sometimes manage to pull 4 out of 10 voters and that's enough as the opposition is divided .

    That still means that 6 out of 10 people who vote don't vote Tory

    So if the tory stranglehold on power is to be loosened we need a decent labour party, a decent liberal party or a united opposition .
    And Tony Blair

  7. #27

    Re: Sunak

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    And Tony Blair
    I think if Labour had a decent leader ......and before he invaded Iraq Blair was that man .....it would probably have enough in the tank to defeat the Tories.

    But not with Starmer in charge . That's my view . He's not up to it .

  8. #28

    Re: Sunak

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    I think if Labour had a decent leader ......and before he invaded Iraq Blair was that man .....it would probably have enough in the tank to defeat the Tories.

    But not with Starmer in charge . That's my view . He's not up to it .
    Spot on

  9. #29

    Re: Sunak

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    The Tories sometimes manage to pull 4 out of 10 voters and that's enough as the opposition is divided .

    That still means that 6 out of 10 people who vote don't vote Tory

    So if the tory stranglehold on power is to be loosened we need a decent labour party, a decent liberal party or a united opposition .
    Put like that, it’s bleeding obvious that we need proportional representation not just to get the Tories out, but also to ensure a fairer representation of what the voters wanted.

  10. #30
    First Team Forest Green Bluebird's Avatar
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    Re: Sunak

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Put like that, it’s bleeding obvious that we need proportional representation not just to get the Tories out, but also to ensure a fairer representation of what the voters wanted.
    Proportional representation is an electoral system in which the distribution of seats corresponds closely with the proportion of the total votes cast for each party. For example, if a party gained 40% of the total votes, a perfectly proportional system would allow them to gain 40% of the seats.

    This would mean that lots of constituencies in a general election would be represented by an MP who failed to gain the most votes.

    Would that be an acceptable scenario in your constituency?

  11. #31

    Re: Sunak

    Quote Originally Posted by Forest Green Bluebird View Post
    Proportional representation is an electoral system in which the distribution of seats corresponds closely with the proportion of the total votes cast for each party. For example, if a party gained 40% of the total votes, a perfectly proportional system would allow them to gain 40% of the seats.

    This would mean that lots of constituencies in a general election would be represented by an MP who failed to gain the most votes.

    Would that be an acceptable scenario in your constituency?
    I’d prefer that to .the current system where we always end up with Governments that around 40 per cent of the voters want.

    Anyway, you’ve described one example of proportional representation there, there are others.

  12. #32
    International jon1959's Avatar
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    Re: Sunak

    Quote Originally Posted by Forest Green Bluebird View Post
    Proportional representation is an electoral system in which the distribution of seats corresponds closely with the proportion of the total votes cast for each party. For example, if a party gained 40% of the total votes, a perfectly proportional system would allow them to gain 40% of the seats.

    This would mean that lots of constituencies in a general election would be represented by an MP who failed to gain the most votes.

    Would that be an acceptable scenario in your constituency?
    Constituencies would have to change. PR would have a ripple effect right through the political system.

    We could be into bigger constituencies backed up by regional lists for top-up MPs to achieve proportionality, or any of dozens of other models in use around the world that have been designed to achieve PR.

    What can't work is 650 constituencies that operate just like now but with 'allocated MPs' from some national PR machine.

    Although as others have said in most constituencies the sitting MP who 'represents the area' and does all the casework was not voted in by the majority of the electors.

  13. #33

    Re: Sunak

    Quote Originally Posted by Forest Green Bluebird View Post
    Proportional representation is an electoral system in which the distribution of seats corresponds closely with the proportion of the total votes cast for each party. For example, if a party gained 40% of the total votes, a perfectly proportional system would allow them to gain 40% of the seats.

    This would mean that lots of constituencies in a general election would be represented by an MP who failed to gain the most votes.

    Would that be an acceptable scenario in your constituency?
    I would certainly accept it over the current system. One overarching benefit is that PR would tend to exclude more extremist policies from either side of the Great Divide.

    I think there is a better than fair chance this approach would result in more pragmatic politics better suited to tackle challenging issues.

  14. #34

    Re: Sunak

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    I’d prefer that to .the current system where we always end up with Governments that around 40 per cent of the voters want.

    Anyway, you’ve described one example of proportional representation there, there are others.
    I don’t see any other way of getting things done than first last the post.

    All others lead to deadlock.

  15. #35
    First Team Forest Green Bluebird's Avatar
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    Re: Sunak

    Quote Originally Posted by WJ99mobile View Post
    I don’t see any other way of getting things done than first last the post.

    All others lead to deadlock.
    Back in 2019:

    Attachment 5059

    Capture.JPG

    Tories had 70 more seats that they would have done under ‘simple’ P.R.

    Labour had 14 fewer.

    Lib Dems were the party with the most to gripe about, given the share of their vote. However many of these votes cast for Lib Dems were probably protest votes i.e. anything but Tory or Labour.

    Ditto for ‘Green’ voters.

    SNP got more than they ‘deserved’.

    The ‘rest’ are largely insignificant in terms of making an argument for P.R.

    So basically 45% voted Tory and 45% voted Labour / Lib Dem.

    Not sure whether P.R. would be that much fairer.

    Chaos would ensue?

  16. #36

    Re: Sunak

    Quote Originally Posted by WJ99mobile View Post
    I don’t see any other way of getting things done than first last the post.

    All others lead to deadlock.
    Judging by how many swivel eyed loons are currently engaged as politicians, deadlock and inaction might prove a blessing.

  17. #37

    Re: Sunak

    Quote Originally Posted by WJ99mobile View Post
    I don’t see any other way of getting things done than first last the post.

    All others lead to deadlock.
    Or compromise. Politics is too confrontational and increasingly too extreme so something needs to change.

  18. #38

    Re: Sunak

    We will never have pr in this country

    It helps out the liberals and others who get a fair amount of support yet few seats

    The liberals went in with the Tories for a chance of a form of pr but the country wasn't even interested in getting off its arse to vote

    I think even the labour party campaigned against pr ?

  19. #39

    Re: Sunak

    Quote Originally Posted by PontBlue View Post
    Or compromise. Politics is too confrontational and increasingly too extreme so something needs to change.
    I can't stand corbyn and his gang in the same way I don't mind moderate Tories like the Ken Clarke of twenty years ago

    John Major was a moderate fella too

    If we could have a centrist party with liberal social policy it would get my vote

    I thought the defection of a few liberal , tory and Labour mps with that chukka ummuna was the start but it was a damp lettuce

  20. #40
    International jon1959's Avatar
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    Re: Sunak

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    We will never have pr in this country

    It helps out the liberals and others who get a fair amount of support yet few seats

    The liberals went in with the Tories for a chance of a form of pr but the country wasn't even interested in getting off its arse to vote

    I think even the labour party campaigned against pr ?


    Labour was officially, if half-heartedly, in support of a change to the Alternative Vote system, but the party was completely split internally. The most high profile Labour people campaigned (with the Tories) to keep First Past The Post.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56435341

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