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Thread: Nelson and the 4-3-3.

  1. #1

    Nelson and the 4-3-3.

    2 observations I just wanted to make, feel free to offer your opinions.

    Firstly, how on earth is Nelson playing ahead of Denham and McGuiness?
    Nelson would have been no better than fourth choice even when Warnock was here for me. He had a decent spell alongside Sean Morrison, but it always felt like Morrison was carrying him to some extent.

    Secondly, why are we playing a 4-3-3 with the strikers/forwards that we have?
    I can't help but think that both Watters and Harris are far better playing in a 4-4-2. Both appear better suited to playing off a traditional centre-forward. Although, both are clearly questionable even then!

    In the case of Watters, I'd keep him if we do play that system more often. Harris has been here forever and may have his uses, but has never looked good enough for the higher levels of the game, which is obviously where we aspire to be.

    This brings me on to Etete.
    I know nothing about this lad other than having read a lot of opinions from fans of his previous clubs. They all seem to suggest that Etete isn't great in the air, and is better suited to a 4-4-2!

    Just some obvious points/questions that are swirling around in my head post-match.

    Thoughts?

  2. #2

    Re: Nelson and the 4-3-3.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja View Post
    2 observations I just wanted to make, feel free to offer your opinions.

    Firstly, how on earth is Nelson playing ahead of Denham and McGuiness?
    Nelson would have been no better than fourth choice even when Warnock was here for me. He had a decent spell alongside Sean Morrison, but it always felt like Morrison was carrying him to some extent.

    Secondly, why are we playing a 4-3-3 with the strikers/forwards that we have?
    I can't help but think that both Watters and Harris are far better playing in a 4-4-2. Both appear better suited to playing off a traditional centre-forward. Although, both are clearly questionable even then!

    In the case of Watters, I'd keep him if we do play that system more often. Harris has been here forever and may have his uses, but has never looked good enough for the higher levels of the game, which is obviously where we aspire to be.

    This brings me on to Etete.
    I know nothing about this lad other than having read a lot of opinions from fans of his previous clubs. They all seem to suggest that Etete isn't great in the air, and is better suited to a 4-4-2!

    Just some obvious points/questions that are swirling around in my head post-match.

    Thoughts?
    You've got me ruminating on your other points and I'll have to get back to you on those.

    However the central point is bang on correct. Morison should realise by now Nelson is not in the least bit suitable to be included in the match day squad. I was really disappointed he wasn't shipped out before the season began.

  3. #3

    Re: Nelson and the 4-3-3.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dorcus View Post
    You've got me ruminating on your other points and I'll have to get back to you on those.

    However the central point is bang on correct. Morison should realise by now Nelson is not in the least bit suitable to be included in the match day squad. I was really disappointed he wasn't shipped out before the season began.
    Nelson should have been shipped out long ago - could have been a victory today..

    ..but we were sunk. [I'm trying hard here.]

  4. #4
    International jon1959's Avatar
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    Re: Nelson and the 4-3-3.

    I'm not sure about Nelson. He will be No 1 scapegoat this evening, but I think it is more of a mixed picture.

    He is capable of MOM performances (there was at least one last season) but also of lapses of concentration and bad mistakes that lose games. Warnock, Harris, McCarthy and Morison have played him 117 times in just over 3 seasons (probably a few of those at RB) so they see something in him that is more than a League Two clogger. He is normally OK defensively with the main complaint that he can't carry the ball out from the back.

    But Nelson isn't 'the' problem. We do not have the quality (or depth) of defence that we would like. Perry NG gets beaten in the air, and also has disciplinary lapses, but can pass a ball. Mark McGuinness has regular mistakes in him and seems to be fifth choice so far this season. Kipre was brilliant last week with his ball playing, tackles and blocks - but the WBA boards also highlighted some of his weaknesses. Of course he has weaknesses or he wouldn't be with us now. Denham is very inexperienced - but maybe it's his time?

    Nelson was poor and has serious limitations but some of the reaction is and will be OTT.

  5. #5

    Re: Nelson and the 4-3-3.

    when was the last time we had a successful striking pair?

  6. #6
    International jon1959's Avatar
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    Re: Nelson and the 4-3-3.

    Quote Originally Posted by ToTaL ITK View Post
    when was the last time we had a successful striking pair?
    Has to be Bothroyd and Chops doesn't it?

    Ken Zohore had a good half season but as a lone striker, and Kieffer Moore was the same for a full season before he headed for the bright lights of Bournemouth. But striking pairs (or even attempting to play with two up top) are a fading memory.

  7. #7

    Re: Nelson and the 4-3-3.

    Quote Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish View Post
    Nelson should have been shipped out long ago - could have been a victory today..

    ..but we were sunk. [I'm trying hard here.]
    He's not a patch on McGuiness.

  8. #8

    Re: Nelson and the 4-3-3.

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    I'm not sure about Nelson. He will be No 1 scapegoat this evening, but I think it is more of a mixed picture.

    He is capable of MOM performances (there was at least one last season) but also of lapses of concentration and bad mistakes that lose games. Warnock, Harris, McCarthy and Morison have played him 117 times in just over 3 seasons (probably a few of those at RB) so they see something in him that is more than a League Two clogger. He is normally OK defensively with the main complaint that he can't carry the ball out from the back.

    But Nelson isn't 'the' problem. We do not have the quality (or depth) of defence that we would like. Perry NG gets beaten in the air, and also has disciplinary lapses, but can pass a ball. Mark McGuinness has regular mistakes in him and seems to be fifth choice so far this season. Kipre was brilliant last week with his ball playing, tackles and blocks - but the WBA boards also highlighted some of his weaknesses. Of course he has weaknesses or he wouldn't be with us now. Denham is very inexperienced - but maybe it's his time?

    Nelson was poor and has serious limitations but some of the reaction is and will be OTT.
    I agree with you Jon. I accept that Nelson has his limitations and he wasn’t great today, but I’m not sure what he did to deserve the singling out for criticism he’s getting on here when it was a poor team display.

  9. #9

    Re: Nelson and the 4-3-3.

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    I'm not sure about Nelson. He will be No 1 scapegoat this evening, but I think it is more of a mixed picture.

    He is capable of MOM performances (there was at least one last season) but also of lapses of concentration and bad mistakes that lose games. Warnock, Harris, McCarthy and Morison have played him 117 times in just over 3 seasons (probably a few of those at RB) so they see something in him that is more than a League Two clogger. He is normally OK defensively with the main complaint that he can't carry the ball out from the back.

    But Nelson isn't 'the' problem. We do not have the quality (or depth) of defence that we would like. Perry NG gets beaten in the air, and also has disciplinary lapses, but can pass a ball. Mark McGuinness has regular mistakes in him and seems to be fifth choice so far this season. Kipre was brilliant last week with his ball playing, tackles and blocks - but the WBA boards also highlighted some of his weaknesses. Of course he has weaknesses or he wouldn't be with us now. Denham is very inexperienced - but maybe it's his time?

    Nelson was poor and has serious limitations but some of the reaction is and will be OTT.
    Agree. We will struggle defensively, but we also need to be a bit more positive in possession, quicker, get players in good positions etc. The lack of a striker is a problem, none of them can drop in and link up, Harris and Watters aint the brightest footballers to put a city shirt on. It's disjointed at the moment. Maybe this new guy from spurs can show up and do the things the other two can't. It's so important to have a half intelligent striker, especially if he's on his own up there. Playing three behind the striker means that he has to hold the ball up and wait for support, runners etc.

  10. #10

    Re: Nelson and the 4-3-3.

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    Has to be Bothroyd and Chops doesn't it?

    Ken Zohore had a good half season but as a lone striker, and Kieffer Moore was the same for a full season before he headed for the bright lights of Bournemouth. But striking pairs (or even attempting to play with two up top) are a fading memory.
    sounds fair , but that was years ago....not sure what the mission is in this troop

  11. #11

    Re: Nelson and the 4-3-3.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja View Post
    2 observations I just wanted to make, feel free to offer your opinions.

    Firstly, how on earth is Nelson playing ahead of Denham and McGuiness?
    Nelson would have been no better than fourth choice even when Warnock was here for me. He had a decent spell alongside Sean Morrison, but it always felt like Morrison was carrying him to some extent.

    Secondly, why are we playing a 4-3-3 with the strikers/forwards that we have?
    I can't help but think that both Watters and Harris are far better playing in a 4-4-2. Both appear better suited to playing off a traditional centre-forward. Although, both are clearly questionable even then!

    In the case of Watters, I'd keep him if we do play that system more often. Harris has been here forever and may have his uses, but has never looked good enough for the higher levels of the game, which is obviously where we aspire to be.

    This brings me on to Etete.
    I know nothing about this lad other than having read a lot of opinions from fans of his previous clubs. They all seem to suggest that Etete isn't great in the air, and is better suited to a 4-4-2!

    Just some obvious points/questions that are swirling around in my head post-match.

    Thoughts?
    Nelson may or may not be good enough but he is a safer bet than McGuiness who has far too many mistakes in him. Not really seen enough of Denham to be sure but it must be worthwhile giving him some games given the alternatives.

  12. #12

    Re: Nelson and the 4-3-3.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuerto View Post
    Agree. We will struggle defensively, but we also need to be a bit more positive in possession, quicker, get players in good positions etc. The lack of a striker is a problem, none of them can drop in and link up, Harris and Watters aint the brightest footballers to put a city shirt on. It's disjointed at the moment. Maybe this new guy from spurs can show up and do the things the other two can't. It's so important to have a half intelligent striker, especially if he's on his own up there. Playing three behind the striker means that he has to hold the ball up and wait for support, runners etc.
    If anything, I'd be more critical of Harris than Watters because I regard him as more experienced in this division but is it really fair to ask either of them to play a game they're not suited to? The new lad's not going to be able to do it on his own either from what I've read about him. It's definitely disjointed. Morison can't carry on with a loan striker with the squad we've got. The new lad is 6'6" so you'd expect him to get cross after cross on his head or set-pieces, but apparently that's not his game. I can't see how we can get away without two up front.

  13. #13

    Re: Nelson and the 4-3-3.

    I’m surprised at Morison as when he got the job he made a point of bringing in two big lads, yes Hugill had more to his game but I liked the Boro lad gave us a different option. I know we won’t but I still think we need two strikers and probably Watters or/and Harris moved on.

  14. #14

    Re: Nelson and the 4-3-3.

    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen's Nephew View Post
    I can't see how we can get away without two up front.
    I'm absolutely inclined to agree with this last sentence. I don't see how we make a 4-3-3 work with the forward players we currently have.

    If we bring in another more traditional centre-forward, then I think running with a 4-4-2 is our best shot with what we have.

  15. #15

    Re: Nelson and the 4-3-3.

    I've not seen today's game, but it seems to me that Kipre is winning lots of plaudits. He's made several goal saving last ditch challenges, some of which almost defy belief. If the radio commentary was anything to go by Reading could have scored 4-5 hadn't it been for Kipre. I wasn't convinced by us defensively against Norwich, but they were dire.

    I'm glad to see us go to a back 4 but I'm not sure it is working too well at the moment. Early days though.

  16. #16

    Re: Nelson and the 4-3-3.

    Quote Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish View Post
    Nelson should have been shipped out long ago - could have been a victory today..

    ..but we were sunk. [I'm trying hard here.]
    You did well! Admirally so 👍

  17. #17
    International jon1959's Avatar
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    Re: Nelson and the 4-3-3.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2b2bdoo View Post
    I’m surprised at Morison as when he got the job he made a point of bringing in two big lads, yes Hugill had more to his game but I liked the Boro lad gave us a different option. I know we won’t but I still think we need two strikers and probably Watters or/and Harris moved on.
    Uche is waiting for the call!

    https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/sp...ies-situation/

  18. #18

    Re: Nelson and the 4-3-3.

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    OOOOOCHE!, OOOOOCHE! OOOOOCHE!

  19. #19

    Re: Nelson and the 4-3-3.

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    Is it me or does Wilder come across as a bit disrespectful in the way he refers to him in that article?

  20. #20

    Re: Nelson and the 4-3-3.

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    While I’m sure he would be an asset on the bench I think we may have moved on lol

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