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Thread: Transfer- the emiliano sala story- new 9 part podcast on bbc sounds

  1. #76

    Re: Transfer- the emiliano sala story- new 9 part podcast on bbc sounds

    Quote Originally Posted by TWGL1 View Post
    Just listened to the first two episodes.

    So, of the £15m transfer fee , the McKay fella gets £1.5 m

    Who sanctioned this ?

    Why did CAS go against the club ?
    has there been a decision on the CAS case then?

  2. #77

    Re: Transfer- the emiliano sala story- new 9 part podcast on bbc sounds

    Quote Originally Posted by TWGL1 View Post
    So, of the £15m transfer fee , the McKay fella gets £1.5 m

    Who sanctioned this ?

    Why did CAS go against the club ?
    Mark McKay, Willie McKay's son, apparently had a mandate from Nantes to sell Emiliano Sala to a UK club for a 10% fee.

    CAS hasn't gone against the club - yet.

    FIFA ordered Cardiff City to pay Nantes £5.3 million (the first installment of the transfer fee), having concluded that Sala was a Cardiff player at the time of his death. Cardiff subsequently appealed against that decision with CAS. The result of that appeal has not yet been released.

  3. #78

    Re: Transfer- the emiliano sala story- new 9 part podcast on bbc sounds

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman View Post
    Mark McKay, Willie McKay's son, apparently had a mandate from Nantes to sell Emiliano Sala to a UK club for a 10% fee.

    CAS hasn't gone against the club - yet.

    FIFA ordered Cardiff City to pay Nantes £5.3 million (the first installment of the transfer fee), having concluded that Sala was a Cardiff player at the time of his death. Cardiff subsequently appealed against that decision with CAS. The result of that appeal has not yet been released.


    Ah ok, thanks , here is a Daily Mail article on the latest position.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sp...-Thursday.html

  4. #79
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    Re: Transfer- the emiliano sala story- new 9 part podcast on bbc sounds

    Quote Originally Posted by Father Dougal View Post
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/brand/p...n=share-mobile

    Haven't seen this mentioned yet but they certainly advertising it a lot at the moment.
    When is 3 and 4 coming on?

  5. #80

    Re: Transfer- the emiliano sala story- new 9 part podcast on bbc sounds

    I am starting to think that we should not be held to ransom over this transfer fee.
    While I understand that agreements in principle were made etc, why should Nantes benefit to the tune of £15mil for a player that cost them €1mil.
    This tragedy was not the fault of CCFC, any more so than Nantes ultimately.

    I feel CAS will make us pay them something, but hopefully nowhere near the amount agreed in the transfer fee.
    After all, the player cost them €1mil ffs, whilst his life of course should be considered invaluable, the greed approach is not the correct one given that everybody involved has suffered.

    Henderson should be made to pay a lot of compensation although he would no doubt plead poverty. He could well be out of prison soon too. If he does half on good behaviour, if that's allowed, then later this month quite possibly!

  6. #81
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    Re: Transfer- the emiliano sala story- new 9 part podcast on bbc sounds

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja View Post
    I am starting to think that we should not be held to ransom over this transfer fee.
    While I understand that agreements in principle were made etc, why should Nantes benefit to the tune of £15mil for a player that cost them €1mil.
    This tragedy was not the fault of CCFC, any more so than Nantes ultimately.

    I feel CAS will make us pay them something, but hopefully nowhere near the amount agreed in the transfer fee.
    After all, the player cost them €1mil ffs, whilst his life of course should be considered invaluable, the greed approach is not the correct one given that everybody involved has suffered.

    Henderson should be made to pay a lot of compensation although he would no doubt plead poverty. He could well be out of prison soon too. If he does half on good behaviour, if that's allowed, then later this month quite possibly!
    What they paid and sold him for won't come into it, we agreed to pay it.

    It's down to who owned him, and according to most who have reviewed the case it was still Nantes due to a technicality with the paperwork.

    It’s harsh but that’s what happens if we are proved to be the legal owner we pay, if not we pay nothing.

  7. #82

    Re: Transfer- the emiliano sala story- new 9 part podcast on bbc sounds

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja View Post
    I am starting to think that we should not be held to ransom over this transfer fee. While I understand that agreements in principle were made etc, why should Nantes benefit to the tune of £15mil for a player that cost them €1mil. This tragedy was not the fault of CCFC, any more so than Nantes ultimately.

    I feel CAS will make us pay them something, but hopefully nowhere near the amount agreed in the transfer fee.
    After all, the player cost them €1mil ffs, whilst his life of course should be considered invaluable, the greed approach is not the correct one given that everybody involved has suffered.
    Out of interest, what username did you post under before re-registering last month as Ninja? I ask because, with all due respect, the above post would suggest you have absolutely no idea how professional football transfers work.

  8. #83

    Re: Transfer- the emiliano sala story- new 9 part podcast on bbc sounds

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman View Post
    Out of interest, what username did you post under before re-registering last month as Ninja? I ask because, with all due respect, the above post would suggest you have absolutely no idea how professional football transfers work.
    This is not a suggestion related to how transfers work. What I am suggesting is that if we are deemed liable for a fee, it should not be anywhere near the £15mil Nantes are after.

    If you take the player himself out of the equation and look at it purely from a monetary sense, CCFC gained nothing whatsoever.
    Nantes lost a player that cost them €1mil, and would have scored more goals for them in the years that followed, but was way over-valued at £15mil to begin with, and wasn't exactly going to fire Nantes to Champs League success etc.

    I would suggest that if we are made to pay compensation to Nantes, it should be closer to £5mil than the £15mil agreed given we never even got to have the lad step onto a pitch for us. I'm trying to look at it in more of a subjective manner as opposed to assuming we should owe them £15mil.

    I've posted here occasionally in the past, but until recently, not for many many years. I'm normally a viewer far more than a poster. However, the shenanigans of pre-season and a bit more free time drew me in for a bit

  9. #84

    Re: Transfer- the emiliano sala story- new 9 part podcast on bbc sounds

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja View Post
    This is not a suggestion related to how transfers work. What I am suggesting is that if we are deemed liable for a fee, it should not be anywhere near the £15mil Nantes are after.

    If you take the player himself out of the equation and look at it purely from a monetary sense, CCFC gained nothing whatsoever.
    Nantes lost a player that cost them €1mil, and would have scored more goals for them in the years that followed, but was way over-valued at £15mil to begin with, and wasn't exactly going to fire Nantes to Champs League success etc.

    I would suggest that if we are made to pay compensation to Nantes, it should be closer to £5mil than the £15mil agreed given we never even got to have the lad step onto a pitch for us. I'm trying to look at it in more of a subjective manner as opposed to assuming we should owe them £15mil.

    I've posted here occasionally in the past, but until recently, not for many many years. I'm normally a viewer far more than a poster. However, the shenanigans of pre-season and a bit more free time drew me in for a bit
    either he dies when he was a Cardiff player, in which case we owe the full fee, or he was a Nantes player, in which case we wouldn't pay anything is my limited understanding of it.

    I'm not sure why we would pay a lower figure to Nantes

  10. #85

    Re: Transfer- the emiliano sala story- new 9 part podcast on bbc sounds

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    either he dies when he was a Cardiff player, in which case we owe the full fee, or he was a Nantes player, in which case we wouldn't pay anything is my limited understanding of it.

    I'm not sure why we would pay a lower figure to Nantes
    It's not that black and white though is it, considering the very unfortunate circumstances involved, which is obviously why CAS are involved to begin with.

    It is not beyond the realms of possibility that a compensation package somewhere in between could be suggested if Cardiff are considered liable.

  11. #86

    Re: Transfer- the emiliano sala story- new 9 part podcast on bbc sounds

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja View Post
    It's not that black and white though is it, considering the very unfortunate circumstances involved, which is obviously why CAS are involved to begin with.

    It is not beyond the realms of possibility that a compensation package somewhere in between could be suggested if Cardiff are considered liable.
    I really don't see how that is possible.
    unless it isn't possible to determine if the transfer was complete or not.

    is this something you've read somewhere or just a scenario you've invented yourself?

  12. #87

    Re: Transfer- the emiliano sala story- new 9 part podcast on bbc sounds

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja View Post
    It's not that black and white though is it, considering the very unfortunate circumstances involved, which is obviously why CAS are involved to begin with.

    It is not beyond the realms of possibility that a compensation package somewhere in between could be suggested if Cardiff are considered liable.
    I think both clubs should look at this post …. It’s probably the best outcome for both Cardiff and Nantes. Sadly as third parties are involved it’s just not going to happen.

  13. #88

    Re: Transfer- the emiliano sala story- new 9 part podcast on bbc sounds

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    I really don't see how that is possible.
    unless it isn't possible to determine if the transfer was complete or not.

    is this something you've read somewhere or just a scenario you've invented yourself?
    It's common sense mate. If Cardiff are deemed liable they will fight for a lesser payment for sure given the circumstances.
    We'll see what the outcome is in due course.

  14. #89

    Re: Transfer- the emiliano sala story- new 9 part podcast on bbc sounds

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja View Post
    This is not a suggestion related to how transfers work. What I am suggesting is that if we are deemed liable for a fee, it should not be anywhere near the £15mil Nantes are after.

    If you take the player himself out of the equation and look at it purely from a monetary sense, CCFC gained nothing whatsoever. Nantes lost a player that cost them €1mil, and would have scored more goals for them in the years that followed, but was way over-valued at £15mil to begin with, and wasn't exactly going to fire Nantes to Champs League success etc.
    As I said before, you don't seem to grasp how football transfers work.

    Do you reckon Cardiff should ask Norwich if they can give back the £11 million Warnock paid for Josh Murphy? After all, he cost Norwich nothing, was clearly over-valued at £11 million and CCFC subsequently gained nothing from the transfer.

  15. #90

    Re: Transfer- the emiliano sala story- new 9 part podcast on bbc sounds

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman View Post
    As I said before, you don't seem to grasp how football transfers work.

    Do you reckon Cardiff should ask Norwich if they can give back the £11 million Warnock paid for Josh Murphy? After all, he cost Norwich nothing, was clearly over-valued at £11 million and CCFC subsequently gained nothing from the transfer.
    I've just made my points above, very different set of circumstances indeed!
    Cardiff got the player!

  16. #91

    Re: Transfer- the emiliano sala story- new 9 part podcast on bbc sounds

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja View Post
    I've just made my points above, very different set of circumstances indeed! Cardiff got the player!
    Nantes will argue Cardiff got the player in the Sala case. Indeed, Cardiff announced to the world they’d got the player on their own website.

    Anyway, this is a daft line of discussion, so I’ll leave it there.

  17. #92

    Re: Transfer- the emiliano sala story- new 9 part podcast on bbc sounds

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja View Post
    It's not that black and white though is it, considering the very unfortunate circumstances involved, which is obviously why CAS are involved to begin with.

    It is not beyond the realms of possibility that a compensation package somewhere in between could be suggested if Cardiff are considered liable.
    Why?
    Nantes agreed to sell, and in their mind have sold, an asset worth £15m. They no longer have that asset and haven't received £15m either.
    Cardiff are claiming that the asset never belonged to them, so in their minds shouldn't pay anything.
    Can't see how there is any middle ground.

  18. #93
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    Re: Transfer- the emiliano sala story- new 9 part podcast on bbc sounds

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja View Post
    I've just made my points above, very different set of circumstances indeed!
    Cardiff got the player!
    We didn't as the paperwork wasn't completed correctly, tough on Nantes but they shouldn't have used an agent that thinks flying over rough Sea, at night in a storm in the middle of Winter, with a pilot not qualified to fly commercial passengers, who hasn’t flown at night before in a tiny falling apart plane is just like booking a taxi!

  19. #94

    Re: Transfer- the emiliano sala story- new 9 part podcast on bbc sounds

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman View Post
    Nantes will argue Cardiff got the player in the Sala case. Indeed, Cardiff announced to the world they’d got the player on their own website.

    Anyway, this is a daft line of discussion, so I’ll leave it there.
    It's not daft but there's little point in disputing it as neither of us know all the facts.
    To suggest it should be that black and white as some have suggested just seems foolish to me.
    Life is not always that black and white, that's why organisations such as CAS exist, to resolve disputes, and especially unusual ones such as this.

    This is a highly unusual set of circumstances given that Sala never got a foot on the pitch for us and losing a player mid-transfer like this is almost unheard of.

    Nantes will rightfully be pissed if they get nothing as they lost a player.
    Cardiff will rightfully be pissed if they have to pay £15mil for a player that never got to even train with them, let alone start a match.

    We'll have to wait and see what the outcome is.

  20. #95
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    Re: Transfer- the emiliano sala story- new 9 part podcast on bbc sounds

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja View Post
    I've just made my points above, very different set of circumstances indeed!
    Cardiff got the player!
    I see what you are trying to say, it's not fair on either losing side, but thats life, either we owned him or they did

  21. #96
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    Re: Transfer- the emiliano sala story- new 9 part podcast on bbc sounds

    The arguments and refusal to pay/accept responsibility is not the fault of Dalman or Tan personally, it is the insurance companies.
    If they think there is good reason not to pay they won't pay until they have dragged every single possible argument through the courts.
    even if the CAS finds against City there is still the possibility that the insurance company will refuse to pay because of a different interpretation of this or that or whatever.

    If City had accepted liability before the CAS the insurance company may have said they were in breach of their contract with them and still not pay.

    Whatever city are doing will be on the advice of their lawyers and the insurance company's lawyers. you don't pay for that kind of advice and then ignore it.

  22. #97

    Re: Transfer- the emiliano sala story- new 9 part podcast on bbc sounds

    Quote Originally Posted by xsnaggle View Post
    The arguments and refusal to pay/accept responsibility is not the fault of Dalman or Tan personally, it is the insurance companies.
    If they think there is good reason not to pay they won't pay until they have dragged every single possible argument through the courts.
    even if the CAS finds against City there is still the possibility that the insurance company will refuse to pay because of a different interpretation of this or that or whatever.

    If City had accepted liability before the CAS the insurance company may have said they were in breach of their contract with them and still not pay.

    Whatever city are doing will be on the advice of their lawyers and the insurance company's lawyers. you don't pay for that kind of advice and then ignore it.
    That’s dependent on any insurance being in place and covering this scenario. Is that even confirmed by the club?

  23. #98
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    Re: Transfer- the emiliano sala story- new 9 part podcast on bbc sounds

    Quote Originally Posted by xsnaggle View Post
    The arguments and refusal to pay/accept responsibility is not the fault of Dalman or Tan personally, it is the insurance companies.
    If they think there is good reason not to pay they won't pay until they have dragged every single possible argument through the courts.
    even if the CAS finds against City there is still the possibility that the insurance company will refuse to pay because of a different interpretation of this or that or whatever.

    If City had accepted liability before the CAS the insurance company may have said they were in breach of their contract with them and still not pay.

    Whatever city are doing will be on the advice of their lawyers and the insurance company's lawyers. you don't pay for that kind of advice and then ignore it.
    Even then, clubs or clubs insurance companies will sue the insurers of the Agents and the Plane owners insurers, it will be still going on in decades time.

  24. #99

    Re: Transfer- the emiliano sala story- new 9 part podcast on bbc sounds

    Quote Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue View Post
    Even then, clubs or clubs insurance companies will sue the insurers of the Agents and the Plane owners insurers, it will be still going on in decades time.
    It would be very interesting to know whether the insurance had gone through.
    For high profile clients insurance takes time and is usually subject to medical results. He had his medical results 18th Jan and they probably would have been rushed through to the insurer. However, I'm not sure whether they'd have required a signature from him etc and whether they'd have gotten one in order to validate any insurance before that flight.

  25. #100

    Re: Transfer- the emiliano sala story- new 9 part podcast on bbc sounds

    The process for adding a player to a club's group life insurance would just be to tell the broker to add him and at what value, then for the broker to tell the insurer to do the same. No medical info or signatures would usually be needed.
    However, I think there's a fair chance one or both of those things didn't happen, the "signing" happening on a Saturday afternoon. There may be a clause giving temporary cover for new signings before they're officially added, but if there is it would have a much lower limit of cover than Sala's value.
    I believe Cardiff sacked their broker not long after the accident. Read into that what you want.

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