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Thread: Enough is enough

  1. #1

    Enough is enough

    Fantastic video. The fight back begins.

    https://twitter.com/eiecampaign/stat...baPDZ1uHrfWJ7A

  2. #2

    Re: Enough is enough

    I wonder if the Labour Party will throw their weight behind that campaign.

    They should be leading it.

    But Sir Keir is a member of the Trilateral Commission: that organisation is just as friendly to big business as the Bilderberg Group is.

  3. #3

    Re: Enough is enough

    Fantastic video, some on here will no doubt say we should be happy for whatever we get though.

  4. #4

    Re: Enough is enough

    Enough is Enough.
    Take Back Control.
    Make America Great Again.

    Great slogans, what do they mean in practice? The video is just populism, how on earth are the things talked about achieved?

  5. #5

    Re: Enough is enough

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesWales View Post
    Enough is Enough.
    Take Back Control.
    Make America Great Again.

    Great slogans, what do they mean in practice? The video is just populism, how on earth are the things talked about achieved?
    Brexit Means Brexit

  6. #6

    Re: Enough is enough

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    Brexit Means Brexit
    Another good example.

    Also, For the many not the few..

    All repetitions of essentially the same thing.

  7. #7

    Re: Enough is enough

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    Brexit Means Brexit
    Labour Isn't Working.

  8. #8

    Re: Enough is enough

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesWales View Post
    Enough is Enough.
    Take Back Control.
    Make America Great Again.

    Great slogans, what do they mean in practice? The video is just populism, how on earth are the things talked about achieved?
    How bad is it going to get if they aren't achieved?

    When did it become an unreachable pipe dream for peoples basic needs to be satisfied?

    You can call it simplistic but why is the following unachievable in a country like the UK?

    A real pay rise
    Slash energy bills
    End food poverty
    Decent homes for all
    Tax the rich

  9. #9

    Re: Enough is enough

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    How bad is it going to get if they aren't achieved?

    When did it become an unreachable pipe dream for peoples basic needs to be satisfied?

    You can call it simplistic but why is the following unachievable in a country like the UK?

    A real pay rise
    Slash energy bills
    End food poverty
    Decent homes for all
    Tax the rich
    It's not simplistic, because unfortunately it is not simple to achieve. For two key reasons perhaps. Firstly competition, between us and other countries. And I know there is an argument to be had that we should remove that. Utopian stuff, that would require a huge level of authoritarianism, but fair enough. However, in the unlikely event that this is achieved, you still have the second reason.

    It isn't simple to do this. Every action has multiple reactions.

    A real pay rise. Easy to say, but if you give everyone a real pay rise, then you have effectively given no one a real pay rise. Pay everyone 10% more and more-or-less, prices rise 10% so no one is better off.

    Slash energy bills? We all want that, but this stuff does cost money to get out of the ground and delivered. It costs far more because of Putins war and our sanctions on him. How do we make it cheaper? Subsidise it? That requires more taxes that eats into the payrises above.

    End food poverty. What does this mean? Absolute food poverty or relative? The country has probably never consumed so many calories in it's history. We all agree that no one should go hungry, but nearly every famine in the last century has occured in socialist countries that tried to forceably eradicate food poverty. There are ways to make this better, but 'end fuel poverty' is not as easy to do as it sounds.

    Decent homes for all. I agree, but whats decent? Bigger homes? Where do we build them? On fields? That impacts the environment? On brownfield sites? These cost far more to develop, meaning they need subsidies or become only affordable to the rich. Who is all? Everyone who lives here? Anyone in the world who wants to live here? How do we define decent? Is a two bed flat in a London highrise decent? Is a council estate on the edge of a large city decent?

    Tax the rich. I agree, but we already do. We could do more, but the risk is the money goes elsewhere. Do you think we should tax Cardiff City players at 80% for example? If we did that, do you think the chancellor would get more or less money? Maybe more, or most likely less, as they wouldn't want to do their job here.

    None of this is easy, which is why simplistic slogans are often unhelpful IMO.

    There's always ways to improve things of course but it's not easily done at all and tbh, I don't trust the likes of Zarah Sultana to help us get there.

  10. #10

    Re: Enough is enough

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesWales View Post
    It's not simplistic, because unfortunately it is not simple to achieve. For two key reasons perhaps. Firstly competition, between us and other countries. And I know there is an argument to be had that we should remove that. Utopian stuff, that would require a huge level of authoritarianism, but fair enough. However, in the unlikely event that this is achieved, you still have the second reason.

    It isn't simple to do this. Every action has multiple reactions.

    A real pay rise. Easy to say, but if you give everyone a real pay rise, then you have effectively given no one a real pay rise. Pay everyone 10% more and more-or-less, prices rise 10% so no one is better off.

    Slash energy bills? We all want that, but this stuff does cost money to get out of the ground and delivered. It costs far more because of Putins war and our sanctions on him. How do we make it cheaper? Subsidise it? That requires more taxes that eats into the payrises above.

    End food poverty. What does this mean? Absolute food poverty or relative? The country has probably never consumed so many calories in it's history. We all agree that no one should go hungry, but nearly every famine in the last century has occured in socialist countries that tried to forceably eradicate food poverty. There are ways to make this better, but 'end fuel poverty' is not as easy to do as it sounds.

    Decent homes for all. I agree, but whats decent? Bigger homes? Where do we build them? On fields? That impacts the environment? On brownfield sites? These cost far more to develop, meaning they need subsidies or become only affordable to the rich. Who is all? Everyone who lives here? Anyone in the world who wants to live here? How do we define decent? Is a two bed flat in a London highrise decent? Is a council estate on the edge of a large city decent?

    Tax the rich. I agree, but we already do. We could do more, but the risk is the money goes elsewhere. Do you think we should tax Cardiff City players at 80% for example? If we did that, do you think the chancellor would get more or less money? Maybe more, or most likely less, as they wouldn't want to do their job here.

    None of this is easy, which is why simplistic slogans are often unhelpful IMO.

    There's always ways to improve things of course but it's not easily done at all and tbh, I don't trust the likes of Zarah Sultana to help us get there.
    Heard it all before.

    For me the above entirely relies on a belief that those in positions of power make it their number one priority to improve things for everyday people. They do not. We have spent years eating up any excuse for real terms pay cuts and I am done with it. The richest getting richer isn't an act of god or a scientific inevitability, it is by design.

    Campaigns like this intend to alter that design through public pressure. The government will try to isolate and vilify each group individually but collectively we can actually force a change of approach. We are a complete pushover but I think this winter and the desperation that lots of people will feel is going to significantly affect their willingness to join some kind of collective action.

    There are things I don't like so much about this campaign e.g. dividing normal people by their income/wealth rather than focussing on multinationals and the super wealthy

    We are a high tax, low wage society. Something has to give. Or is it another scam like brexit, 'dont worry guys, we will fix it but you need to wait 50 years to see any improvement'?

  11. #11

    Re: Enough is enough

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    Heard it all before.

    For me the above entirely relies on a belief that those in positions of power make it their number one priority to improve things for everyday people. They do not. We have spent years eating up any excuse for real terms pay cuts and I am done with it. The richest getting richer isn't an act of god or a scientific inevitability, it is by design.

    Campaigns like this intend to alter that design through public pressure. The government will try to isolate and vilify each group individually but collectively we can actually force a change of approach. We are a complete pushover but I think this winter and the desperation that lots of people will feel is going to significantly affect their willingness to join some kind of collective action.

    There are things I don't like so much about this campaign e.g. dividing normal people by their income/wealth rather than focussing on multinationals and the super wealthy

    We are a high tax, low wage society. Something has to give. Or is it another scam like brexit, 'dont worry guys, we will fix it but you need to wait 50 years to see any improvement'?
    Yeah I mean there is nothing wrong with campaigns to improve things. I just think that sometimes it presents existing imperfections as being abject failures caused by some evil govt, which isn't true. I suppose it risks throwing baby out with the bathwater.

    Life has never and never will be perfect, problems will always exist. I can see the appeal, and I can certainly see why people were attracted to things like utopian communism (and I'm not saying this video is that btw..) in the last century but I think in practice things are much harder to achieve many of the things discussed.

  12. #12

    Re: Enough is enough

    Boris loved a good slogan Bless him! eat out to help out...the rule of six..ready baked is my favourite...what an utter twat he was..sorry ...IS

  13. #13

    Re: Enough is enough

    Quote Originally Posted by ToTaL ITK View Post
    Boris loved a good slogan Bless him! eat out to help out...the rule of six..ready baked is my favourite...what an utter twat he was..sorry ...IS
    You seem quite angry of late. Is it the heat?

  14. #14

    Re: Enough is enough

    Quote Originally Posted by Organ Morgan. View Post
    I wonder if the Labour Party will throw their weight behind that campaign.

    They should be leading it.

    But Sir Keir is a member of the Trilateral Commission: that organisation is just as friendly to big business as the Bilderberg Group is.
    Lovely organisation just reading thier past and present members should rock dem socialist...

  15. #15

    Re: Enough is enough

    Quote Originally Posted by ToTaL ITK View Post
    Boris loved a good slogan Bless him! eat out to help out...the rule of six..ready baked is my favourite...what an utter twat he was..sorry ...IS
    "" Captain Crasheroonie Snoozefest” is my all time favourite.. alongside his Peppa Pig blustering..

    I know he's a loop but he was fun in a drab political world ..

    Will he return as Ukraine Envoy ??

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