I must have missed the election.

[Wash DC Blue]

Totally agree mate.

It's all about finding that common ground Wash!

You Knows it :)

[Dorcus]

No he is not, he is portraying Brexit voters as thick daily mail reading racists and it gets on my fcking nerves.

Brexit to me was NEVER about immigration.
I would open up free movement of those in Europe tomorrow.
Brexit to me was about the state of The EU.
The fat cat pigs at the trough and the lack of democracy.
I'm with Yanis Varoufakis and would support DiEM25

The next election is Labour's to lose.
I can't stand Truss and I hope Labour win.
I wish that the likes of Eddie Dempsey and Mick Lynch were more involved in Labour politics.

Most of all though I wish that certain sections of the left would stop their sneering at the working classes and their reasons for voting leave.

The raison detre for Brexit actually came out of the mouths of people high up in the Brexit echelon and it wasn't my own analysis though I believe it to be essentially true.

My description of a majority of people who voted for Brexit in the way I posed was undoubtedly true, I met a lot of them with that very stance. However, it doesn't apply to all and you're absolutely right on that.

I had you down as one of those hard-core overly assertive Brexit types but I will say I am impressed with the argument you have put forward in this post and it gives me food for thought. I may disagree with you over a host of issues I guess but your expression on the immigration situation is refreshing. I also agree with what you say about the elite fat cats in the EU too so that puts you in a different light in my opinion. Although I would argue the same applies in any institution and it certainly applies here in the UK government.

I wouldn't necessarily agree with your anti democratic view of the EU but every democratic institution should be open to democratic review.

But I have to say your support for DiEM25 is particularly welcome and it shows me that though I might have been right about many people the portrait I painted didn't apply to you.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

The raison detre for Brexit actually came out of the mouths of people high up in the Brexit echelon and it wasn't my own analysis though I believe it to be essentially true.

My description of a majority of people who voted for Brexit in the way I posed was undoubtedly true, I met a lot of them with that very stance. However, it doesn't apply to all and you're absolutely right on that.

I had you down as one of those hard-core overly assertive Brexit types but I will say I am impressed with the argument you have put forward in this post and it gives me food for thought. I may disagree with you over a host of issues I guess but your expression on the immigration situation is refreshing. I also agree with what you say about the elite fat cats in the EU too so that puts you in a different light in my opinion. Although I would argue the same applies in any institution and it certainly applies here in the UK government.

I wouldn't necessarily agree with your anti democratic view of the EU but every democratic institution should be open to democratic review.

But I have to say your support for DiEM25 is particularly welcome and it shows me that though I might have been right about many people the portrait I painted didn't apply to you.

Whilst Mr DC is clearly an enlightened and erudite chap I think your initial evaluation of most brexit voters being xenophobic ignorant feckwits ? .......is almost exclusively on the money

[Alfresco]

Whilst Mr DC is clearly an enlightened and erudite chap I think your initial evaluation of most brexit voters being xenophobic ignorant feckwits ? .......is almost exclusively on the money

It's called democracy Scrudge, you are in the minority in more ways than one.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

It's called democracy Scrudge, you are in the minority in more ways than one.

Well slightly in the minority

But either way I am happy I am not a sunburnt feckwit who is scared of outsiders

[Pearcey3]

Obscene costs for a state funeral.
Obscene wealth for 1%
Obscene corruption, lies and ideology.
Obscene levels of degradation and humiliation for the poorest and most vulnerable in our society.
Obscene levels of financial reward for sniffing cocaine all day and shifting numbers around on a MacBook,
Obscene excuses.
Obscene levels of power and disregard for democracy and our civil liberties.

Totally agree.

[Pearcey3]

It's called democracy Scrudge, you are in the minority in more ways than one.

I very much doubt he is in the minority these days.

[Alfresco]

Well slightly in the minority

But either way I am happy I am not a sunburnt feckwit who is scared of outsiders

its obvious you have no respect for any opinion that don't match yours.

[Alfresco]

I very much doubt he is in the minority these days.

Any stats on that?

[jon1959]

Any stats on that?

The rolling poll data I saw from July 2022 showed: 36% support for Brexit; 52% who (now) think it was a bad decision and we should have stayed in the EU; and 12% who didn’t understand the question.

Brexit support has quite closely tracked support for the Tories over the past few years.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

its obvious you have no respect for any opinion that don't match yours.

I have respect but may not agree with Mr DC for example who has clearly argued why he was not anti immigration but against the bureaucracy of the EU

I personally think that could have been dealt with instead of just leaving

But I reserve the right to argue that the vast majority of brexit voters were anti immigration little englanders which in our case , given the support south wales was given from Europe......was absolutely fecking staggering . Of course , it was democratic , as you imply but that doesn't mean that people who voted to leave are not dopey sods .

If you want to give me a step by step guide to why you voted to leave , without copying and pasting then carry on but having read your contributions on here I am happy to draw my own conclusions .

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

The rolling poll data I saw from July 2022 showed: 36% support for Brexit; 52% who (now) think it was a bad decision and we should have stayed in the EU; and 12% who didn’t understand the question.

Brexit support has quite closely tracked support for the Tories over the past few years.

Well that's a shock

[Dorcus]

I have respect but may not agree with Mr DC for example who has clearly argued why he was not anti immigration but against the bureaucracy of the EU

I personally think that could have been dealt with instead of just leaving

But I reserve the right to argue that the vast majority of brexit voters were anti immigration little englanders which in our case , given the support south wales was given from Europe......was absolutely fecking staggering . Of course , it was democratic , as you imply but that doesn't mean that people who voted to leave are not dopey sods .

If you want to give me a step by step guide to why you voted to leave , without copying and pasting then carry on but having read your contributions on here I am happy to draw my own conclusions .

He left because the majority of the board sided against him.

[Dorcus]

The rolling poll data I saw from July 2022 showed: 36% support for Brexit; 52% who (now) think it was a bad decision and we should have stayed in the EU; and 12% who didn’t understand the question.

Brexit support has quite closely tracked support for the Tories over the past few years.

I think that 12% who didn't understand the question was nearer to 51.89% in 2016.

[the other bob wilson]

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-voting-system

[Citizen's Nephew]

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-voting-system

I read that he was still resisting. I stopped reading anything he had to say after that. This piece should be front and centre in the G everyday. I despair with the Starmer, I really do. Coalition of Labour, SNP, Plaid, LibDems. Greens etc is the only way forward.

[Eric Cartman]

I read that he was still resisting. I stopped reading anything he had to say after that. This piece should be front and centre in the G everyday. I despair with the Starmer, I really do. Coalition of Labour, SNP, Plaid, LibDems. Greens etc is the only way forward.

I want pr but it's pretty obvious how it would be spun against them if they entered the election with a referendum on reform as a clear commitment.

- gives representation to extreme views (lol like the erg)

- weak, they don't think they can win an election (this is probably the main issue)

Probably others but those are off the top of my head.

[Citizen's Nephew]

I want pr but it's pretty obvious how it would be spun against them if they entered the election with a referendum on reform as a clear commitment.

- gives representation to extreme views (lol like the erg)

- weak, they don't think they can win an election (this is probably the main issue)

Probably others but those are off the top of my head.

Yes, I do understand the damned if they do damned if they don't spin by the press. Even that's depressing though!

[Dorcus]

I want pr but it's pretty obvious how it would be spun against them if they entered the election with a referendum on reform as a clear commitment.

- gives representation to extreme views (lol like the erg)

- weak, they don't think they can win an election (this is probably the main issue)

Probably others but those are off the top of my head.

The Tory propaganda machine would spend huge amounts of money in an attempt to discredit PR because the Tories know they would be fighting for the party's continued existence. But if, God forbid, Labour.lose the next election I think there must be a concerted effort by all the rest of the parties to make ielectoral reform an urgent priority.

The country can't be expected to suffer endlessly from Tory misrule and every trick in the book must be used to prevent their re-election ever. I foresee a formal Progressive coalition fighting the Tories before too long.

[JamesWales]

The Tory propaganda machine would spend huge amounts of money in an attempt to discredit PR because the Tories know they would be fighting for the party's continued existence. But if, God forbid, Labour.lose the next election I think there must be a concerted effort by all the rest of the parties to make ielectoral reform an urgent priority.

The country can't be expected to suffer endlessly from Tory misrule and every trick in the book must be used to prevent their re-election ever. I foresee a formal Progressive coalition fighting the Tories before too long.

The irony of writing this in this thread. Extraordinary

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

The Tory propaganda machine would spend huge amounts of money in an attempt to discredit PR because the Tories know they would be fighting for the party's continued existence. But if, God forbid, Labour.lose the next election I think there must be a concerted effort by all the rest of the parties to make ielectoral reform an urgent priority.

The country can't be expected to suffer endlessly from Tory misrule and every trick in the book must be used to prevent their re-election ever. I foresee a formal Progressive coalition fighting the Tories before too long.

That's what the country needs but it will never happen . Starmer will think he's got a chance , blow it because he's a wet fart , the Tories will hold on and that will be it for another 5 years

The labour and liberal party should fold and join up to snuff the Tories out but they won't