Reply With QuoteKeep it to yourselfOriginally Posted by Hilts
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Nonsense
The tory party and its government have been a car crash on acid and the last few months have seen them ignore
the country to try and sort out their own mess
You have been a constant source of support for the shysters
It would irk less if you just came clean but pretending to be a soft tory is a joke .
The only way I would believe you in your claim you don't always vote Tory would be to vote labour , Liberal, Plaid or green in a proxy vote on your behalf
And even then I would check ✔
Keep it to yourself
For my two-pennyworth.
In terms of the challenges facing this country, asylum seeking boat people are more noise than heat. Offered a choice of key issues in polls, immigration gets about 20% of top three choices. At the time of the Brexit referendum it was double that.
It certainly triggers the 20%, including a few on here. There is also a shifting narrative. Those who have suddenly found the Albanians in the last months as the latest heat source would have more credibility if they were not equally as vociferous about the "genuine" asylum seekers before Tirana apparently emptied.
That said, for me, the Albanian surge smells. A mature process should be able to separate genuine asylum seekers, chancing economic migrants and illegal immigrants. The Albanian issue mobs them all together.
I understand the argument that about 80% of female Albanians are granted asylum because of their risk of or actual sexual exploitation. What I can't quite rationalise is how they sought to escape sexual exploitation by putting themselves in the hands of people traffickers, who would be the most likely people to exploit them. You have to wonder what happens to these poor women once they are granted asylum when the likely contacts in the UK are possibly the people who shuttled them here in the first place!
There is a real risk that the genuine asylum seekers looking at the UK, where we take a small burden compared with most of the remaining EU, are more vulnerable because of the posture of the UK government and people exploiting Albanians, for whatever reason!
what's wrong with settling them here?
one of the greatest things we have in our democracy is due process, and our government cannot just treat the people under its jurisdiction in any old manner. If this means that everyone has a legal route to redress then so be it.
or maybe the left understand the situation just as well as you do, but they have a difference of opinion on how to solve the issue and just how serious theissue is to the UK.
You're all about differing opinions - amirite?
Of course, that goes without saying.
If someone says something on an internet forum it is an opinion, not a statement of fact.
Nonetheless, I do think there was a naivity. Hiding behind the 'everyone is a desperate refugee' etc etc does create a culture where people can (and seemingly have) exploited it.
Of course, 'the right' can be excused of being heartless too. But on this occasion I think there has been a naivity.
Or the left see lots of vote potential?? Let's hope there desire and motivations are right sadly I have my doubts , I do think they see votes in metropolitan high density areas .. not easy to find that is so .
Saw some dubious material posted in a recent by election with a large Muslim population, of Boris shaking hands with the Indian prime minister ( why was that ? )
Of course. But we also have bad laws and we have poor interpretations of the law. And if it means almost anyone can claim asylum, the process takes a great many months, it can be exploited by criminal gangs and is all funded by a taxpayer, many of whom can barely feed themselves, then people have a right to be miffed about the system.
This stock answer of 'its the law, thats fine!' is not what people say when it goes the other way.
I think sooner or later politicians will wake up to the realisation that the solutions (and maybe only with limited results) to this problem are only found with global cooperation. I don't think any one country can both effectively and humanely resolve the issue.
I think it would also be a massive help if politicians of all hues stop treating this issue as a political football and start levelling up with people and collectively begin a process of public education with the aim of dampening the hostile discourse.
I think it's more a case of being absolutely blindsided by the whole identity politics / race debate, so any criticism of things like immigration levels or asylum processes is seen as racism.
Now don't get me wrong, often the criticism is based on that, which is plainly wrong, but it's also possible that the processes in place, no matter how sensitive, can break down, fail, be exploited or abused etc.
It's similar to the mermaids charity, where any criticism was labelled as transphobic etc, and that provides cover for all kinds of bad processes. Likewise, grooming gangs where people kept quiet for fear of being labelled racist.
We need to move on from this kind of thing, it's a real curse IMO
You must be the only person not currently aware of this. Type 'Albanian drug gangs UK' into Google. The list is endless.
Nope - its common knowledge.He's probably been watching "Gangs of London"
What can happen when the right start culture wars about immigration.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-63526659
No thats what happens when you ignore issues Bob.
No, that’s what happen when immigration is treated in the manner the UK Government, certain newspapers and broadcast outlets treat it. Immigration only becomes an issue when right wing politicians and media people want it to be.
Once again, you just lazily equate anyone with a different opinion to yours on this subject with being in favour of an immigration freefor all. Also, before you ask, I don’t have an easy answer to the problem because there isn’t one, but what I do know is that expensive gimmicks like the Rwanda one are not the answer, they’re merely weapons in the culture war theGovernment wants to fight.
I'm not sure what you are saying?
You are implying that some terrorist acted because 'the right' made a 'culture war' of this. I would cast doubt on that. I'd say it happened because nothing has been done about what now seems to be a mass exploitation of the system.
What you are saying is no different to people who equated the murder of Davied Amess with Angela Rayner calling people 'Tory Scum' at the conference a short while before.
These things are far more complex as you know. You can't just label everything a 'culture war'. As I said before, if anyone is guilty of that, it's those that hide behind accusations of racism / xenophobia etc as a means to do nothing about it.
We've all known for months and months that something was going wrong. Was Rwanda an expensive gimmick? I dunno. Maybe it would have served as a real deterrent and not led to costs being as high as £7m a day. Who knows. That was it's intention - to smash the business model, not to send thousands to Rwanda, but to prevent there being thousands of dubious claims in the first place. What was she labelled for it? Evil bitch and the rest, with no alternatives given.
It's that policy vacuum that gives extremists (which DO exist unfortunately) the space to operate.
And immigration was an issue for years and years - again, people ignored it. Hoped it would go away, and then Brexit happened.
We cannot keep ignoring issues and hope they disappear. The current situation has been obvious since last summer at least.
Well said. I've said it before and I'll keep saying it, we had the same rhetoric from the right regarding the unemployed, disabled and vulnerable for years which caused untold damage to the lives of people within those demographics.
I'd be interested to know why the influx of these foreign nationals troubles you so. How do you think it would affect you adversely?
Have you read some of the stuff the guy put online? It struck me that he was very poorly educated, likely had additional untreated needs, lonely (/living in his own world), he is absolutely the perfect target to be 'radicalised' and the right wing press have stepped over the line many times in that regard, stoking up hate around this issue over the years. He certainly wasn't somebody making an informed rational decision who decided one day 'not enough is being done to address this issue'.
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Why bother debating. This is the person who said gammon was a racist term, GB news isn't right wing and that nobody in the UK wants to stop all immigration.
All of which highlights the position that he comes at these arguments from. He seems to think that you have to have people strutting about in uniforms with swastikas on them before they qualify as being far right.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...pire-far-right
Bloody lefty lawyers.
Asylum seekers or thier sons have bombed for decades ,the dead relatives of those atrocities will tell you that .. bugger all to do with government rhetoric its religious extremists same in France .
Thousands of Albanians have arrived (young nen ) they are known for drug and gang related offences in all the big cities.. some even traffic young children ..into dreadful conditions and use..
Why we should apologise to illegal folk arriving and not getting automatic hotel stays is maddness..
We should set up a support system and all those sympathetic on those board who have a spare room step forward instead of throwing out defence statements because they hate the Tories and think its a vote winner ..
Two things that should not be politised NHS and Immigration.
Bet Sir Bier enjoys this bashing over these issues as his end game is equally poor .. to use it as a tool .. asit is people's lives at risk.. and our country when the next attrocity happens.
Can anyone translate into English?
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