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I wonder if this would be a go-er? I would be happy to contribute as long as the tax revenue raised was strictly ring-fenced for NHS expenditure only.
According to official statistics there were 1.27 million basic rate and 0.1 million higher rate tax payers in Wales in 2020/2021. Total 1.28 million. Ref:
https://www.gov.uk/government/statis...te%20taxpayers
Total NHS spending in Wales = £9.6 billion. (https://www.audit.wales/infographics...arised-account). Let's say we went for a modest £1 billion (approx 10% of the £9.6 billion) raised by local taxation, this equates to approx £780 per tax payer per year or £65 per month. The extra £1 billion would surely ensure decent pay for nurses, paramedics and junior doctors and more besides.
I'm not saying it wouldn't help, but in the last few years the NHS (in England and thus increases come to Wales too) has seen large rises and yet improvements don't seem to happen.
Makes me think the issues are not directly money related and more connected to how the thing is managed. Thats the impression I get from speaking to friends in the NHS too.
Seems that both Labour and Conservatives are on board with reform of the NHS now too which says a lot given what a political football it is.
I agree that money alone is not the answer but in the short time we have to try to stop the exodus of nurses and other medical people from the NHS.Originally Posted by JamesWales
It's not a tax, National insurance is the measure if they are going to increase money for the health service, it works out that more people pay a fairer proportion.
You don't pay NICs after 65. Sorry but I don't think working age people are going to put up with once again footing the bill for the healthcare of people who can afford to contribute more themselves
Are these rises large IN REAL TERMS? How does UK healthcare spending compare with the EU?
I find the information on the number of Welsh and UK higher rate taxpayers amazing, depressing and scary. I don't have time to trawl through the entire webpage you posted but am I correct in thinking that only 7.4% of Welsh taxpayers were paying at the higher rate?
Isn't the threshold for paying at the higher rate only approx. GBP 50K? Only 100K people pay higher rate taxes of a population of over 3M! That is utterly bonkers - the percentage is almost double for the UK. Wales is being screwed by Westminster. Time for independence within the EU.
(For reference, 29% of US taxpayers were in the tax bracket for more than $75K in income in the 2022 tax year.)
Ring-fencing is called hypothecation in the lingo. And it won't work unfortunately. All the Tories would do is reduce any funds currently earmarked for healthcare by the amount of the hypothecation. They're all weasels.
National Insurance is not a tax? Crikey. There's no special fund to service the health system, the dough comes from the same pot that pays for everything.
And while I'm at it, tax is a polite word for confiscate or steal. Furthermore, the state doesn't have to levy a penny from taxes as it can create as much dough as it wants from absolutely nothing (it's called QE).
Taxes exist as a means of control. If you believe you own your home then think again because the state does. You and I and millions of others rent it from the state via Council Tax... fail to cough for that and the state will make you understand reality.
1.27 Million basic rate - only 0.1% higher rate, that can't be right? How many pay additional rate tax? - That's the problem with an extra welsh tax for some people it would be 40% or 45%? - It should be 20% for everyone.
Instead, start an additional welsh VAT of 1% or something?
Or stop free prescriptions, it's proven if something is free people will just have it and waste it because they can, some people get shit loads of free prescription gluten-free bread, crackers, and stuff how is that right, just eat something else, or buy it yourself?
The main problem is the NHS offers too many services, some will have to be reduced, and it is unsustainable.
Wales already gets more NHS cash per head than England, and they want us to pay extra? They can f*ck right off. They need to get a grip on the wastage, before they start asking us to pay more.
I can't understand why 40-45% is too high for some people. I can understand why 20 is much too high for many. I'm perplexed with your thinking
I see your thinking, it's a big jump to double people's tax rate and start to strip child tax credits or whatever it is now.
A sliding scale from 5 to 55 would be fairer but too hard to collect.
I'm not sure that the Welsh Government tax raising powers extend to include National Insurance aswell? Im not sure the Welsh electorate would stomach z Wales only rise without quick results.
I think aswell its such a shame that the Westminster rise in NICs was scrapped as it would've helped for sure.
Because everyone gets free health care, why ask higher-rate payers to pay an extra premium for the same health service, they already pay more in tax and national insurance.
Mr A earning £20K please pay an extra £40 a year to see your doctor or whatever
Mr B earning £100K a year you can pay £400 a year to see your doctor whatever, don't worry if you've got private health care and don't use it, just pay it for the others, in addition to the extra Nat ins and tax you pay, oh you have a big mortgage and may have less disposable income than Mr A, tough sh!t!
That's not my position, but it is for a lot of people.
Welsh Labour should manage the money better and not waste it on 20mph speed signs and all the rest of the stupid ideas.
I can't see any problem with it. Sounds like a solution to me
It's a pretty stupid position though because you can extrapolate it out of existence. I have no children yet I pay for schools, why? I haven't been to a doctor in years yet Doris next door needs regular treatment, she should pay, not me. Can I opt out of paying for my MPs wages?
I agree with what your saying but that's standard tax situation, this is Wales has mismanaged the budgets and needs additional funding to England as they prioritise longer lockdowns, lower speeds, hindering the economy, free money for care home kids leaving care homes etc etc so £800 please, £40 for you, it's free for you, it's not on people would go mental.
Get the priorities right, lower speed trips to Qatar, free prescriptions are not priorities.
I agree, this is how the system should work. Everyone pays in whether they expect to use the system or not. I am reasonably healthy for my age and very rarely need access to the NHS but I continue to contribute financially (and have done all my adult life) to provide support for those less fortunate than myself.
And that of course is as it should be. Why there's such a fuss about people with more Dosh not paying more is beyond me.
Free prescriptions for people unfortunate enough to be on very little money and with multiple health issues most certainly is a priority.
Maybe there could be some kind of scheme applied to contributions along the lines of Gift Aid i.e. H.M. Gov tops up contributions by 20%? I know it all comes from general taxation at the end of the day but it might make it easier to sell the idea to Joe Public.
Agree.
There is only a finite amount of money though. Free prescriptions is undoubtedly nice but the poorest in England get them anyway. In Wales we choose to give them to everyone. Again, a nice to have sure but arguably not the best use of money.
The best argument I have heard for it was that it would cost more to administer it if it was means tested. I'm not sure that's true if you base it on pre existing benefits and that also is an argument for universal benefits for everything
Exactly
Even when you discount the 'not wanting them to die' bit. It almost certainly makes financial sense in the long run.
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