Ford to cut 1 in 5 jobs in the UK

[az city]

My point is, was, always will be that these are complex issues with numerous inputs and outcomes and there's evidence on either side. No one denies the status quo is not ideal and needs improving though 👍

Jimbo, what EXPERTS do is disentangle the various "inputs" and "outputs" using various modeling techniques. That's what the EXPERTS you steadfastly refuse to accept have done around Brexit.

ALL (bar idiots who slavishly follow Minford's mob) have concluded Brexit is a major factor leading to a decline in the British economy.

I know you don't like the conclusions they've reached but you must at least acknowledge them. Please tell us all why you're right and they are all wrong.

[az city]

But it's not bollocks it's a fact. .

You can have opinions, you cannot have your own facts.

In nominal terms, 2022 was NOT a record year for UK exports to the EU, 2019 was. Prove me wrong post the actual statistics on here...

I know you won't because you are WRONG. You are posting BOLLOCKS.

Here's the House of Commons' official commentary on UK-EU trade. (You might want to skip it, it's rather uncomfortable reading for you.)

"The EU, taken as a whole is the UK’s largest trading partner. In 2021, UK exports to the EU were £267 billion (42% of all UK exports). UK imports from the EU were £292 billion (45% of all UK imports).
Disruptions to international trade caused by the coronavirus pandemic, combined with disruptions caused by the end of the Brexit transition period, saw the value of UK trade with the EU contract sharply between 2019 and 2020, before partially recovering between 2020 and 2021.
The share of UK exports accounted for by the EU has generally fallen over time from 54% in 2006 to 42% in 2021.
The share of UK imports accounted for by the EU fell from 58% in 2002 to 45% in 2021.
The UK had an overall trade deficit of -£25 billion with the EU in 2021. A surplus of £42 billion on trade in services was outweighed by a deficit of -£67 billion on trade in goods.
Northern Ireland followed by Wales and the North East of England had the highest percentage of goods exports going to the EU of all the countries and regions in the UK in 2021. Northern Ireland followed by the South East of England, had the highest proportion of goods imports from the EU."

[JamesWales]

You can have opinions, you cannot have your own facts.

In nominal terms, 2022 was NOT a record year for UK exports to the EU, 2019 was. Prove me wrong post the actual statistics on here...

I know you won't because you are WRONG. You are posting BOLLOCKS.

Here's the House of Commons' official commentary on UK-EU trade. (You might want to skip it, it's rather uncomfortable reading for you.)

"The EU, taken as a whole is the UK’s largest trading partner. In 2021, UK exports to the EU were £267 billion (42% of all UK exports). UK imports from the EU were £292 billion (45% of all UK imports).
Disruptions to international trade caused by the coronavirus pandemic, combined with disruptions caused by the end of the Brexit transition period, saw the value of UK trade with the EU contract sharply between 2019 and 2020, before partially recovering between 2020 and 2021.
The share of UK exports accounted for by the EU has generally fallen over time from 54% in 2006 to 42% in 2021.
The share of UK imports accounted for by the EU fell from 58% in 2002 to 45% in 2021.
The UK had an overall trade deficit of -£25 billion with the EU in 2021. A surplus of £42 billion on trade in services was outweighed by a deficit of -£67 billion on trade in goods.
Northern Ireland followed by Wales and the North East of England had the highest percentage of goods exports going to the EU of all the countries and regions in the UK in 2021. Northern Ireland followed by the South East of England, had the highest proportion of goods imports from the EU."

You saying this! Jesus, irony really is misunderstood in the US!

"You can have opinions, you cannot have your own facts."

Notwithstanding the multitude of facts in both directions, I shall you the same question Cyril failed to answer:

If Scotland became independent in Feb 2020 and in March 2020 Covid hit would you say that is a normal environment to make an assessment of the success or otherwise of it?

[az city]

You saying this! Jesus, irony really is misunderstood in the US!

"You can have opinions, you cannot have your own facts."

Notwithstanding the multitude of facts in both directions, I shall you the same question Cyril failed to answer:

If Scotland became independent in Feb 2020 and in March 2020 Covid hit would you say that is a normal environment to make an assessment of the success or otherwise of it?

Stop the obfuscating whataboutery and actually answer my posts.

[JamesWales]

Stop the obfuscating whataboutery and actually answer my posts.

AZ, no one is going to argue that the current trading arrangements between the UK and the EU are easier than before. They never will be. Let's be clear on that, and it's something there is agreement on.

The theoretical benefits (trade wise) of Brexit are that not being in the EU/Single Market means we can develop better trading relationships with other countries and these countries may be faster growing and larger in size than the EU. That's a theory at the moment, we don't really know how that will pan out, and I think most reasonable people would acknowledge that Covid preoccupation is probably a part of that.

Those two things most would probably agree on.

My point is that there are other factors that you choose not to look at. Let's say unemployment, let's say the FTSE, let's say wages vs inflation. On these three factors the UK is generally doing better than the EU at the moment. The pound is weak v the dollar but so too has the euro been. For periods last year the UK was seeing higher GDP growth quarterly for other periods lower. Our inflation has generally been lower than the EU average, jobs have probably never been easier to find in the UK for decades, some people have seen wages rude very well. Again, no one says this is down to Brexit entirely at all, but it's all part of a wider, more holistic look at the UK economy and the European economy, which on the ground really is not in any fine shape either.

You only present bad news, and do not look at things holistically. None of which particularly paints a rosy picture per se, but the vast majority of it does not paint a picture that shows the UK to be demonstrably worse than other countries, nor can we universally conclude what the reasons are for that even if we could.

Why don't we see how this year pans out? We are all in a post covid world, unfortunately not in a post Ukraine war world, but perhaps the shock of that have been absorbed and there is no escalation. There are legacies of both that impact us all, but let's just see what happens shall we?

[cyril evans awaydays]

You saying this! Jesus, irony really is misunderstood in the US!

"You can have opinions, you cannot have your own facts."

Notwithstanding the multitude of facts in both directions, I shall you the same question Cyril failed to answer:

If Scotland became independent in Feb 2020 and in March 2020 Covid hit would you say that is a normal environment to make an assessment of the success or otherwise of it?

You seem to believe your Scottish example makes you some kind of latterday Cicero, effortlessly dismissing counter arguments. It is a ludicrous comparison. The UK as a political entity has masses of data to make a comparison with the before and after effects of the first trade deal in history to introduce rather than remove obstacles to trade. Scotland has little of this, would be seeking similtaneously to join the European Union and putting the very same obstacles between it and England and Wales that the Withdrawal Agreement establishes (give or take the likelihood of a Common Travel Area).

But we don't need distorting hypotheses to draw conclusions so far. Experts given the responsibility have done the hard work for us. So when the OBR says “The latest evidence suggests that Brexit has had a significant adverse impact on U.K. trade, via reducing both overall trade volumes and the number of trading relationships between U.K. and EU firms,” or

when the Deputy Governor of the Bank of England says “Brexit … has been something that has pulled on our potential output in our country and that’s been our assessment for many years,” “We’ve not changed our estimate of the long-running effects, but we’ve brought some of them forward and we think they’re probably coming in faster than we first expected.” or

when the Governor of the Bank of England says "Brexit was one of a series of significant economic shocks to have had an impact along with the Covid pandemic and Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and the ensuing rise in energy costs.“These shocks have held back both productivity and labour supply,” or

The Office of National Statistics shows that we are the only major economy still to return to positive growth after Covid/Energy Crisis these institutions are using hard economic data rather than a ouija board.

[MOZZER2]

well some more good news announced today for the UK automotive sector with big investment planned for the mini plant based in Cowley Oxford

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64902153

as its boom time in the semi-conductor industry would be nice if the government ( even if labour get in next year ) would invest big time in the UK also

as mentioned before seems like capital investment and people Engineering skills investment has been holding back the UK for a number of years . Keep manufacturing in the UK please !

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64872465

[JamesWales]

well some more good news announced today for the UK automotive sector with big investment planned for the mini plant based in Cowley Oxford

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64902153

as its boom time in the semi-conductor industry would be nice if the government ( even if labour get in next year ) would invest big time in the UK also

as mentioned before seems like capital investment and people Engineering skills investment has been holding back the UK for a number of years . Keep manufacturing in the UK please !

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64872465

Good news for all involved. Weird that a £600m investment in the British car industry was buried as the sixth story on the BBC business page. I looked there earlier this week and the main story was some bloke tweeting Elon Musk about losing his job.

News values eh?!

[cyril evans awaydays]

Good news for all involved. Weird that a £600m investment in the British car industry was buried as the sixth story on the BBC business page. I looked there earlier this week and the main story was some bloke tweeting Elon Musk about losing his job.

News values eh?!

Agree. You would have thought stuff like this would knock Gary Lineker off the front pages of the Daily Mail.

[JamesWales]

Agree. You would have thought stuff like this would knock Gary Lineker off the front pages of the Daily Mail.

Indeed. I would be a happier man in this respect if the media focused more on real news and less on tweets from celebrities

[HiVis]

You seem to believe your Scottish example makes you some kind of latterday Cicero, effortlessly dismissing counter arguments. It is a ludicrous comparison. The UK as a political entity has masses of data to make a comparison with the before and after effects of the first trade deal in history to introduce rather than remove obstacles to trade. Scotland has little of this, would be seeking similtaneously to join the European Union and putting the very same obstacles between it and England and Wales that the Withdrawal Agreement establishes (give or take the likelihood of a Common Travel Area).

But we don't need distorting hypotheses to draw conclusions so far. Experts given the responsibility have done the hard work for us. So when the OBR says “The latest evidence suggests that Brexit has had a significant adverse impact on U.K. trade, via reducing both overall trade volumes and the number of trading relationships between U.K. and EU firms,” or

when the Deputy Governor of the Bank of England says “Brexit … has been something that has pulled on our potential output in our country and that’s been our assessment for many years,” “We’ve not changed our estimate of the long-running effects, but we’ve brought some of them forward and we think they’re probably coming in faster than we first expected.” or

when the Governor of the Bank of England says "Brexit was one of a series of significant economic shocks to have had an impact along with the Covid pandemic and Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and the ensuing rise in energy costs.“These shocks have held back both productivity and labour supply,” or

The Office of National Statistics shows that we are the only major economy still to return to positive growth after Covid/Energy Crisis these institutions are using hard economic data rather than a ouija board.

This is what they just don't get...and the EU is by far and away our largest market.

[John Buchanan]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64629072

Bridgend would have never survived anyway and is a worry for things to come, particularly for the automotive sector

Ai Ai