Reply With QuoteWouldn't it be better, without the knowledge, to leave women play women's sport then?Originally Posted by SuperBluebirds91
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We do not know the answer to that though yet - no one does. Assumptions have been made and by myself too - In saying that it reduces but we don’t know for definite.
As stated before trans woman have pretty bad in elite sports so we know that they do not cause a threat to women’s sports but this is a small number. Maybe what Germany are doing. Will give us the answers in a few years time.
Wouldn't it be better, without the knowledge, to leave women play women's sport then?
We are moving towards equality ?
Which is good
But until we have definite scientific back up about the capability of trans men or women competing in sport ......let's use the example of a person who has trans from a man into a woman ......then shouldn't we , in the spirit of fairness not allow trans people to compete until we are more aware of any long term advantages or disadvantages ?
If we have transgender Olympics etc for now then it's not perfect but it's more fair than allowing people with male muscularity lift weights against females ?
I think that’s what the intention is but this is the issue with no trans women allowed in women’s sports we will never be able to gain the research. The thing is there aren’t enough trans women in sports to have a category on its own? There hasn’t been hardly any trans women winning or qualifying for elite world athletes and that was prior to the restrictions so this kind of tells me that it was never really an issue in the first place. Like I said above there are so many advantages that one women will have over another anyway - are they going to ban them too? (as stated in above posts).
It’s funny how this has never been an issue in the past - if it had been a problem I think we would have known about it. Could you imagine if they suddenly said no men are allowed to compete if they have a the sprinter gene!
If it's a male racing a male there's no issue is there.
Surely, the necessary research can be carried out with modern technology and the benefits of science without trans women competing against women in the first place.
There have been two major studies on testosterone reduction in trans identifying males and they show a negligible difference in performance, and there are a myriad of other physiological advantages that someone born male would have over a woman.
It doesn't matter if someone is winning gold medals all over the place or not, they would still be taking the place of a woman who has far more right to be in the competition in the first place.
This isn't the same as the attack on gay rights; this argument has come about in recent years because of self-ID and trans rights activism. Some of the trans activism has been brutal and designed to shut women up - the latest inclination to label them as nazis, as you have, is part of the propaganda.
The advantages of height etc exist within a category. If you're that much faster than everyone else then good for you, but being a different sex is entirely something else.
The girls won the sixth form hockey game against the boys in our school, the fact that they weren’t too particular about whether they were hitting the ball or the opponent with their sticks, whereas the men were playing at being proper gentlemen probably helped a bit.
Probably showing my ignorance here, but wouldn’t trans only competitions be a way around the problem or are there not enough of them to get anything of a decent standard organised?
Trans people are being used as an scape goat in a culture war. Unfortunately it is exactly the same as when other minority groups have been attacked in the past. There are many anti trans groups that target individual trans people and go out of their way to attack them either via social media or to be used in speeches etc. I haven’t just read this stuff - I’ve literally been witnessing it for quite a few years. It’s getting worse and worse. Believe it or not there are people who are like this. Very sad and cause so much harm.
Yes there has been in increase in trans awareness and trans people have been fighting for a better quality of life but has been met with a push back by radical feminist groups. Most feminist are happy with how things are progressing for trans people but there is a group that have been going out of their and campaigning against trans right and using women’s rights as a weapon to attack them. Trans women aren’t ever going to try and shut women up as they are women themselves and will do everything to fight for women’s right themselves. Trans people aren’t dangerous however it has been made out in an indirect way that somehow trans people are a danger to other women by letting them enter the women’s toilet. This has been happening for decades but where are all these assault cases then? We would sure know about it by now if there were. In contrast tens women are at a very high risk of assault. The words of people who are in a position of power to do so much good in the world have caused so much harm. Trans people are also at high risk of self harm and suicide.
There is a lot of anti trans propaganda and trans people alongside people who can see through it all have pointed out how nazi like it is. It will probably take years before people wil realise their mistakes but like I said in a previous post it will be too late for an apology jus like gay people too many trans people will have died as a direct result of anti trans campaign. You say brutal - you have no idea how brutal these groups are.
Nothing wrong with asking questions - I have no issue with that but really who would I listen to - someone who has 50 years experience of being trans or a person who has joined a radical feminist group who doesn’t know the first thing about being trans.
Just my opinions above and not argument against you personally - it’s just when you are trans yourself and you have many trans friends and then some group start chanting about trans women being a danger or at every attempt you make to try and improve your life someone is there saying no you can’t do it - it becomes abit sad.
Just one final thing to add regarding trans activism - it really isn’t that big a scale. The people that seem to shout the loudest are the anti trans campaigners. Of course there is a push back because people are fed up with - it’s got very personal. Trans people will always be here long after these people have moved on o attacking another vulnerable group sadly.
Unfortunately there are hardly any trans women at the elite level anyway. In amateur level and youth there maybe more opportunity. I’ve know trans women participate in various sports previously and there is no issue with it by anyone there. Tbh I wouldn’t be surprised if a trans woman would hold back more in any case because they wouldn’t want to be accused of being any better. Hopefully one day it will be resolved properly so everyone can be involved.
People who are anti trans are ignorant.
You may think my opinion is ignorant as well, and I may be totally oblivious to the fact I'm an ignorant person, I just don't see why trans women should be allowed to complete with women.
I'm not part of my group and I don't even watch the news to be brainwashed, I don't do social media either as that's also full of ignorant people, I'm probably not aware of the scale of the whole thing, I base my opinions on what I see and think.
Everyone should have a place to compete, go to school, feel comfortable etc but I personally don't think this is it.
That’s probably a good thing to stay of social media anyway whether it is this topic or another because these days people will use any excuse to attack someone. The news is another. I’m not saying and I don’t think many are saying that trans woman (pre transition) are the same level of strength to women in general. Fully transitioned - alot nearer. I know trans woman who have lost so much muscle strength since transitioning I expect they would be On a level playing field to women. Hopefully something will be done to resolve the issue where all parties are happy.
I certainly didn’t think you are ignorant. I think the worst thing is that it is being used by some (and I am only referring to some people) as a way to attack trans women. That’s the aspect I don’t like about it. I have no issue with it all being looked into and trying to find the best solution. When you see comments that deliberately Mis gender people for example they’ll write he in capitals or get very personal about genitalia or the fact the trans women are going to expose themselves to vulnerable people blah blah blah that’s the part that gets me very upset because that’s the part that I think most of know is untrue. Again this is usually people on social media etc.
Anyway I hope no one thought my comments to be offensive or too one sided. Of course I will probably appear biased as I am trans but then I have a lot of experience of being trans.
I hope that my comments or replies have helped and been respectful but if you don’t agree you don’t have to read them again.
It can be quite a heated debate because it can feel like a personal attack on who you are and invalid your feelings.
Hopefully a solution will be found that is good for all parties.
SB91, of course there have been transgender people around for ages and using women's bathrooms but, as far as I know, only transexual women had that concession. What seems to have changed is that TRAs have proposed that anyone who simply declares they're the opposite sex to which they were born would be allowed the same right. Women's right groups have been pointing out the issues involving safeguarding (against predatory men taking advantage of this, and there are a few who already have) and have received death and rape threats and personal attacks, including at a couple of events last week.
Maybe I'm wrong but I know of no group who are outwardly anti-trans (I don't doubt there are idiots around who give them stick just because they're different) but only those who have prioritised women's sex-based rights ahead of the feelings of males in particular areas such as sports, prisons, welfare centres etc. There are members of the trans community and detransitioners who seem to agree with this (and they get stick as well).
I wish you well, SB; I don't envy what you're going through, but there seems to be a strategic bludgeoning of the issue from some trans rights activists which is obviously not helpful.
It is only at youth or amateur level so it's about participation rather than denying women an opportunity
from Swim England today ( I know its swimming ), who have been discussing this for years ( I attended a webinar during covid about it )
https://www.swimming.org/swimengland...policy-update/
Only athletes who have declared a birth sex of female will compete in the ‘female’ category.
no messing and kept it simple
they are looking at a new ‘open’ category , which will be for athletes with a birth sex of male, trans or non-binary competitors.
Political correctness means that any hint of exclusion = attack on trans people. Fairness won't come into it.
I know. World's gone mad.
A video came up on YouTube earlier (after I'd looked at this thread and not had the app open on my TV..the only place I have YouTube..scary) about the Canadian power lifting coach competing as a woman. The rules state they have to take your word for it when you give your gender. He smashed the record.
i saw a clip of a new trans boxer verses a very skilled and ranked cis boxer..it was not a nice watch.
Re: Transgender women in German football
Thanks for your reply and well wishes.the issue is that many trans women do not ever transition medically. Same for people who are trans male or non binary etc. for me personally it is due to my health issues thatI couldn’t undergo the surgery and as much I would like that,I know it cannot happen. This is the same for many others but obviously there are a number of reasons. So there are always going to be many trans people who haven’t medically transitioned out there. They may have changed their name and presented as a woman for decades. Now imagine having the feeling 100% that you are a woman but then being told you have to stick to the men’s toilets. You are at risk of assault and verbal abuse and then we are getting back to protect woman again - a full circle. It is extremely difficult to make the transition it literally takes years - decades unless you have money! From start to finish you could be looking at 8-10 years. I have been on the waiting list for testosterone (clinic appointment) for 4 years already. Making these changes have felt like gateways to try and navigate through. Whilst all this is going on you have the trauma of being in a body that does not align with your gender. On top of that you get people questioning your feelings and whether it’s all in your head. You are at risk of assault verbally and physically. All you want to do is actually just decreetly
Y get on with your life like everyone else because let’s face it - life is tough enough with more stuff on top.
There is t a rise in trans people out there - there’s just a rise in people either coming out and finding their voice or realising what the confusion has been for years as there is now so much more awareness, the later is how I realised.
So in order ot make it easier for trans people to be able to say - actually I am a man (for example) removes some of the barriers. A man wanting to go into a woman’s bathroom and assault a woman is not only disgusting but against the law and that should never happen but unfortunately if they want to do this they will do it - they do not need to dress upto do it. A trans woman is absolutely no threat to another woman in those toilets - they just want to wee like the rest of us in peace.
There are people who are trans who will disagree with the majority of trans people and believe it or not there are also trans people who are transphobiceach to their own but all I can say is what I’ve gone through and what I’ve seen amongst friends etc.
No one is against safe spaces for women - I’d be the first person to stand up and say women need to be protected from assault and attacks but singling out trans women as the threat or problem is just wrong because even though it is about men assaulting women, trans women have been dragged right into the argument. Of course there are trans people out there who are violent just like anyone else there are amazing trans people out there and there’s selfish people and there’s kind. But when a trans person commits a crime - don’t we just hear about!
The other issue is by keeping trans women out of women’s toilets they are letting men in - trans men. Now tbh the last
Place I want to go is the women’s toilet. The thought of being in infumigated by all the perfume and passing out at all the chatter about ladderred tightsbut what they don’t realise is I am a guy in the mind - Ido t see the trying to ban trans men from the women’s toilet?
Just a few things and I appreciate you reading as i appreciate it isn’t everyone’s cup of tea to read upon trans topics. Of course I realise some of views will be biased but wi5 lived experience too. The way I see it personally is that a bees nest has been poked.
What a stupid world we live in.
I've been in the male bathroom when women have walked in, usually because their own toilet is full. Not once have I ever seen any male cause any kind of confrontation.Thanks for your reply and well wishes.
Y get on with your life like everyone else because let’s face it - life is tough enough with more stuff on top.
There is t a rise in trans people out there - there’s just a rise in people either coming out and finding their voice or realising what the confusion has been for years as there is now so much more awareness, the later is how I realised.
So in order ot make it easier for trans people to be able to say - actually I am a man (for example) removes some of the barriers. A man wanting to go into a woman’s bathroom and assault a woman is not only disgusting but against the law and that should never happen but unfortunately if they want to do this they will do it - they do not need to dress upto do it. A trans woman is absolutely no threat to another woman in those toilets - they just want to wee like the rest of us in peace.
There are people who are trans who will disagree with the majority of trans people and believe it or not there are also trans people who are transphobic
No one is against safe spaces for women - I’d be the first person to stand up and say women need to be protected from assault and attacks but singling out trans women as the threat or problem is just wrong because even though it is about men assaulting women, trans women have been dragged right into the argument. Of course there are trans people out there who are violent just like anyone else there are amazing trans people out there and there’s selfish people and there’s kind. But when a trans person commits a crime - don’t we just hear about!
The other issue is by keeping trans women out of women’s toilets they are letting men in - trans men. Now tbh the last
Place I want to go is the women’s toilet. The thought of being in infumigated by all the perfume and passing out at all the chatter about ladderred tights
Just a few things and I appreciate you reading as i appreciate it isn’t everyone’s cup of tea to read upon trans topics. Of course I realise some of views will be biased but wi5 lived experience too. The way I see it personally is that a bees nest has been poked.
However, you claim trans women should be able to use the female toilets out of fear that they may be attacked in the male toilets. do you accept that there are women out there that feel like they may be attacked by trans women in female toilets, and if so, why should the rights of a trans woman supercede the rights of a woman?
There is a person that goes in a pub I know, they identify as female, but I'm guessing they have tried to get the op and been declined, they use the women's toilet, some are bothered by it some aren't, as the world is. It is, what looks like, a man dressed up as a woman, using the female toilet. They identify as female, is that really enough for someone to be able to use the female toilets?
Not everyone is comfortable with the set up.
Remember when New Zealand sent a trans Weightlifter to the the Olympics and people shit a collective brick over competitiveness, with Sharron "I won f*** all" Davies calling it an inherent "30% unfair advantage"?
Then they finished last.
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