If Lamouchi keeps us up, would you give him a new contract?

[the other bob wilson]

I blame the whole situation on Tan and the board.

I'll tell you why this is on Tan.

Tan hires and fires the members of the board. He could sweep the decks this morning if he wanted. He doesn't choose to. We can only assume then that he is happy with the personnel on the board.

Tan and the board picked Steve Morison. He wasn't forced upon us. The club actively installed him as a manager. The man they employed in that role to take the club forward. They then gave him a very low budget. Nobody else did, the owner and board set that budget.

Now depending what you read there also seems to be a transfer committee in place, overseen by Tan. Whatever you believe virtually every signing needs the green light from Tan.
The board along with Steve Morison then cleared what they could of the playing squad and set about signing freebies, loans and cheaper alternatives with a lower wage bill.

They then saw fit to sack their pick as manager in Morison and employ another manager with virtually no experience to move the club on. Hudson had his work cut out.

After this failed they then employ what I believe is a better manager than the previous two. Not a world beater but better.

This is why I think it is very much on Tan and the board than Sabri Lamouchi not picking Bagan. Funnily enough a player the previous two didn't fancy to any great degree either.

Your paranoia is showing. Using your logic, we may as wellhave stuck with Morison because our manager can’t be blamed for poor results, poor team selections and tactical blunders - it’s all down toTan, that’s mad.

Regarding Bagan, the line that other managers didn’t rate him is irrelevant here - what Lamouchi did yesterday was show that he thinks Romeo, Ojo and Simpson are better left backs/left wing backs than him. What have any of them done to justify that opinion?

[blue lewj]

Your paranoia is showing. Using your logic, we may as wellhave stuck with Morison because our manager can’t be blamed for poor results, poor team selections and tactical blunders - it’s all down toTan, that’s mad.

Regarding Bagan, the line that other managers didn’t rate him is irrelevant here - what Lamouchi did yesterday was show that he thinks Romeo, Ojo and Simpson are better left backs/left wing backs than him. What have any of them done to justify that opinion?

Paranoia? If this happened at any other club would you blame two inexperienced managers and the squad assembled on peanuts or the people who are pulling the strings?

How on earth is that paranoia?

The two managers prior to Lamouchi not picking Bagan is very relevant. A total of three managers have now not fancied him yet people on messageboards feel he is good enough to start. That is very relevant.

[The Lone Gunman]

Tan and the board picked Steve Morison. He wasn't forced upon us. The club actively installed him as a manager. The man they employed in that role to take the club forward. They then gave him a very low budget. Nobody else did, the owner and board set that budget.

Do you think there's a possibility that FFP rules may have been a significant factor in bringing about that situation?

[blue lewj]

Do you think there's a possibility that FFP rules may have been a significant factor in bringing about that situation?

Maybe so. You don't compound it by having that squad assembled, at least partly, by a man with no experience though. If the time was needed for an experienced head then that was it.

[The Lone Gunman]

The two managers prior to Lamouchi not picking Bagan is very relevant. A total of three managers have now not fancied him yet people on messageboards feel he is good enough to start.

And, of course, Messrs Morison, Hudson and Lamouchi are top-notch managers who never make mistakes....

[blue lewj]

And, of course, Messrs Morison, Hudson and Lamouchi are top-notch managers who never make mistakes....

Nobody said they were. All managers picked by the board too. They can't be blamed though.

I'm just saying if he was that much better than what they were originally picking he would have featured.

You'll disagree, obviously.

[Rjk]

yes I probably would, mostly because I wouldn't trust the club not to sign someone completely awful as opposed to being impressed with Lamouchi.
He probably deserves a transfer window and preseason to stamp his own mark on the team as well.

We were 17th when Morrison was sacked weren't we? it seems unlikely that we will reach those lofty heights again this season despite having addressed the main weakness in the side for the first half of the season - not having any strikers that can hold the ball up.
I wonder how we would have fared under Morrison if we had Kaba and Wickham to call upon as well.

likewise can you imagine how bad we would currently be if Lamouchi had to play Max Watters up front.

I still think we will stay up (just).

[The Lone Gunman]

Maybe so. You don't compound it by having that squad assembled, at least partly, by a man with no experience though. If the time was needed for an experienced head then that was it.

I agree. However, there needs to be some balance here. This season's playing budget is definitely not a stick to beat Tan and Co with. After the disastrously large fees paid and the ludicrously high wage bill created during the latter stages of the Warnock era, the club's hierarchy had no option but to reduce the budget significantly this season. The club lost £29 million last season and the parachute payments are a thing of the past. A failure to reduce the budget would almost certainly have resulted in points deductions next season, and we can certainly do without those regardless of what division we are in.

[The Lone Gunman]

I'm just saying if he was that much better than what they were originally picking he would have featured.

You'll disagree, obviously.

I will. I think Bagan is worth a chance. I don't believe the fact that Morison and Hudson didn't pick him is evidence that he's not good enough. After all, both of those managers were out of their depth and got sacked after achieving poor results.

[blue lewj]

I agree. However, there needs to be some balance here. This season's playing budget is definitely not a stick to beat Tan and Co with. After the disastrously large fees paid and the ludicrously high wage bill created during the latter stages of the Warnock era, the club's hierarchy had no option but to reduce the budget significantly this season. The club lost £29 million last season and the parachute payments are a thing of the past. A failure to reduce the budget would almost certainly have resulted in points deductions next season, and we can certainly do without those regardless of what division we are in.

The budget is a factor though.

For me you don't compound an already difficult task by handing that task to a manager with no experience.

I know we don't agree on who is involved in transfers etc but let's just say that we agree Morison had some involvement. For me, we needed somebody with more experience, let alone experience of building a new squad.

[Rjk]

I agree. However, there needs to be some balance here. This season's playing budget is definitely not a stick to beat Tan and Co with. After the disastrously large fees paid and the ludicrously high wage bill created during the latter stages of the Warnock era, the club's hierarchy had no option but to reduce the budget significantly this season. The club lost £29 million last season and the parachute payments are a thing of the past. A failure to reduce the budget would almost certainly have resulted in points deductions next season, and we can certainly do without those regardless of what division we are in.

yes it has to be a big factor.
if we hadn't built up such a large but equally ineffective wage bill, or at the very least managed to acquire some players that we could sell for a healthy profit then it would have given us a lot more room for manoeuvre in rebuilding the squad.

as it is, it has been reported that we have a bottom-third wage bill and we've been firmly in the bottom third at best all season

[blue lewj]

I will. I think Bagan is worth a chance. I don't believe the fact that Morison and Hudson didn't pick him is evidence that he's not good enough. After all, both of those managers were out of their depth and got sacked after achieving poor results.

It isn't evidence in itself no. I think there is at least something in 3 managers overlooking him though.

I think he has done alright when he has played. He is certainly no worse than say Nkounkou defensively for example.

[dembethewarrior]

Before yesterday, I’d have definitely said yes, but after watching us play hoofball badly for ninety minutes in the closest thing I’ve seen this season to the bad, old days of McCarthy especially while also being a shambles tactically, I’m not so sure. On balance, I’d still say yes, but not with any great hope that things will be any better next season.

Maybe it's what we've reverted to in desperation to stay up?

Morison changed his style once we were safe didn't he? It's a fair bet to say Lamouchi won't play like that with a full season in front of him.

[dembethewarrior]

He completely messed up on Monday. HE didn't seem to know what he was doing and changed formations 4 times in the first half.

However, our three previous managers this season in Morison, Hudson and Whitehead couldn't get the players to perform consistently and therefore surely the problem is with the balance of the team and playing personnel.

Changing managers, even in the Summer, changes little.

The group needs to be added to with some leadership, character, fight and goals - all things we lack this season and things that can't be put right by constantly changing managers hoping that they wave a magic wand.

Let Lamouchi and Bamba get on with it and if we stay up let's see what they can do to address these issue - although their hands will be tied considerably.

[The Lone Gunman]

It isn't evidence in itself no. I think there is at least something in 3 managers overlooking him though.

Morison picked Watters on a regular basis. His judgment is seriously flawed in my opinion. Meanwhile, I never believed Hudson was management material and said as much the minute he was appointed. I don't think the fact that those two didn't select Bagan is evidence that Bagan isn't good enough. But I'm more interested in the here and now, and it looks to me like Lamouchi is losing the plot. The tactics against Swansea were abysmal and everything about yesterday's set-up was wrong from start to finish. I'm not convinced by this manager at all.

[blue lewj]

Morison picked Watters on a regular basis. His judgment is seriously flawed in my opinion. Meanwhile, I never believed Hudson was management material and said as much the minute he was appointed. I don't think the fact that those two didn't select Bagan is evidence that Bagan isn't good enough. But I'm more interested in the here and now, and it looks to me like Lamouchi is losing the plot. The tactics against Swansea were abysmal and everything about yesterday's set-up was wrong from start to finish. I'm not convinced by this manager at all.

In your opinion, yes.

In my opinion three managers don't overlook a clearly better left back over others. They just don't rate him highly enough to start him regularly.

As was discussed at the time of Lamouchi being appointed it was very much a case of what Lamouchi we would get. The one that got Forest playing well or the one that unravelled at the end of his time there. For our sake I hope we see at least some of the former.

[dembethewarrior]

I can't believe people have turned on him after so few games.

Modern football right there.

He might have got it wrong but you don't know what the injury situations were etc. He's also been left with an absolute crock of a playing squad and was brought in so late in the transfer window he couldn't even bring in loans with no fee.

As some have mentioned he recognised there was an issue and tried to change it. We could have got Warnock if Tan hadn't have burnt his bridges and accused every manager who hasn't nailed every transfer of conning him.

If people showed this much energy towards the owner and board we wouldn't be in this mess.

I can't believe people are turning on him either. I don't think he's playing "Lamouchi ball" he's just trying to get points on the board to keep us up. He's reactive in game, which is a nice change with our managers.

Warnock is a thief and the sooner he leaves football the better.

So you reckon it's the fans fault for our position then? If tan is the dictator you say he is, why would he listen to a load of fans making noise on a messagboard with 30 active users? Or all of them combined (A.A has about 4 actual people with 27 accounts don't he) I'm not so sure what you think a few moaning fans would achieve?

[blue lewj]

I can't believe people are turning on him either. I don't think he's playing "Lamouchi ball" he's just trying to get points on the board to keep us up. He's reactive in game, which is a nice change with our managers.

Warnock is a thief and the sooner he leaves football the better.

So you reckon it's the fans fault for our position then? If tan is the dictator you say he is, why would he listen to a load of fans making noise on a messagboard with 30 active users? Or all of them combined (A.A has about 4 actual people with 27 accounts don't he) I'm not so sure what you think a few moaning fans would achieve?

I think if fans showed at the game they were not happy with the running of the club while also getting behind the team it would at least have a chance of letting Tan know the fans are not happy and demand more.

What is the alternative? Pretending everything is rosy and doing nothing?

[blue lewj]

I'm genuinely shocked how few people are unhappy about Tan on messageboards like this one.

There seems a handful of us. Even things like the club missing a deadline and putting the club under an embargo doesn't see any great increase in number. It is what it is.

[dembethewarrior]

I think if fans showed at the game they were not happy with the running of the club while also getting behind the team it would at least have a chance of letting Tan know the fans are not happy and demand more.

What is the alternative? Pretending everything is rosy and doing nothing?

It isn't rosy and it isn't ok, but my point is I don't think any of it will change anything because he does what he wants.

If he cared he would be doing his best to look after the club,instead he's embroiled in battle after battle, he only seems interested in the money side of things, which is ironic as if we were to go down the club would struggle, yet he completely ****ed up the transfer embargo...

I don't think anyone at the club knows what they are doing, I think we will stay up and a smart manager with a licence to do (free) business could jump us up to mid table, but will tan be willing to pump a few quid in to improve us once the embargo is lifted? I don't think he's interested anymore.

[dembethewarrior]

I'm genuinely shocked how few people are unhappy about Tan on messageboards like this one.

There seems a handful of us. Even things like the club missing a deadline and putting the club under an embargo doesn't see any great increase in number. It is what it is.

You don't have to post multiple times saying the same thing to not be happy with tan. I'm not over the moon with him, but we can't change a lot until he's ready to sell up so what would moaning achieve? Apart from all the negativity and moaning having an impact on my actual day to day life....why let a football club run you down.

[Tuerto]

So, by your logic, it's Tan and the two Ronnie's fault for the situation we find ourselves in? And I would agree with you. But when players don't meet your expectations in terms of work rate, passion, character etc, then it's the players fault, not the fault of the managers who either play them or brought them in, knowing their strengths and weakness's, or the people above who appointed the manager who helped recruit the players with the manager.

So it's alright to blame individuals up to a point, meaning the players, who were recruited by the manager who was recruited by Dalman and choo, who were recruited by Tan. A bit of due diligence wouldn't have gone amiss, cos some of the players we have ain't going to show what you percieve as work rate and character, surely that's down to those above? Sounds like you're kicking the dog lewj.

[dembethewarrior]

So, by your logic, it's Tan and the two Ronnie's fault for the situation we find ourselves in? And I would agree with you. But when players don't meet your expectations in terms of work rate, passion, character etc, then it's the players fault, not the fault of the managers who either play them or brought them in, knowing their strengths and weakness's, or the people above who appointed the manager who helped recruit the players with the manager.

So it's alright to blame individuals up to a point, meaning the players, who were recruited by the manager who was recruited by Dalman and choo, who were recruited by Tan. A bit of due diligence wouldn't have gone amiss, cos some of the players we have ain't going to show what you percieve as work rate and character, surely that's down to those above? Sounds like you're kicking the dog lewj.

All this relegation worry has got people posting like mad men.

They want to relax a bit like me.

[The Lone Gunman]

I'm genuinely shocked how few people are unhappy about Tan on messageboards like this one.

What makes you believe people are either satisfied or happy with Tan? The fact that a large majority of this board's contributos don't spend their time posting the same inane drivel over and over again doesn't mean anybody is content with the club's owner. Far from it. But while Tan is ultimately responsible for the overall state of the football club, any fool should be able to see that he is not responsible for poor team selections, bad tactical set-ups, poor individual performances by players, etc, just as he isn't responsible for good individual performances, fine saves or great goals.

[Sunnysideup]

For me it’s a bit weird seeing Whitehead Bamba and Lamouchi all on the sidelines
The three are all animated and it just looks so disjointed
One voice surely?