Reply With QuoteWhat has he done to earn one?Originally Posted by Hilts
No Manager has played him?
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He wont play him but he should get a long deal. Hes 22 ffs and we have no recognised LB.
What has he done to earn one?
No Manager has played him?
Well Lamouchi has seen enough to think he warrants one but doesn't think he deserves a place at Lb or lwb before Romeo Ojo or Simpson.
Exactly, you could argue that Lamouchi rates him as the sixth best left back/wing back at the club currently. I was just assuming he’d be released at the end of the season.
I have seen the lad at first hand (not via TV ) he has plenty of potential, wants to play , he judt needs experience, get nastier, consider his defence position from the wing back area all if which is a coaching development tasks . I'd give him a contract .. and question the coaching ?
Not knocking you or your post, there's a bit of sense to it, but why do so many people on here think that coaching is the key to everything? It isn't, Players learn the fundamentals, understand positioning, tactics etc, but at some point progress and improvement has to come from within, there's no magic wand.
I'd guess the reason Lamouchi hasn't played him is because we're in a relegation fight and he doesn't want to bring in someone from the u21s who's barely played this season. He showed last season that he's capable of playing at this level, but perhaps with so little time left Lamouchi doesn't want to risk a player who's being brought up to speed
Only thing I can think of.
Does seem a little odd though considering the issues at left back this season and he hasn’t made the bench recently. Does seem like Lamouchi prefers experience at this time, like you said maybe because of the situation. I don’t think we plan how he would want either but horses for courses.
Or perhaps because he's younger (I'll watch my words as we've had a 26 year old young player of the year unless my mind's playing tricks on me) he understands there's still time to develop him, and given his confidence issues he's not ready to throw him into the lineup and completely destroy him while his confidence may still be low. Perhaps he's "developing" him. Imagine that.
Same as I was saying about Josh Murphy. At some point we have to stop blaming Warnock and realise that perhaps he didn't want it enough. Reading about Delle Alli in the press now, what a waste that potentially could be.
Excellent post!
Has Bagan got confidence issues?
It certainly looked like Ojo did on Monday.
He looked a player completely shot of all confidence.
If, as you say, he so far back in the pecking order, could it be the case that the manager has said all this because he has no option but to play Bagan over the next few games? Saying such positives publicly as a motivational tool, especially after Bagan being no where near the first team.
We only have to look at the farcical events of the last game, where we had our right back starting at left back, getting exposed early on in the game, being shifted over to his usual position. Then hoping that Ojo can do some sort of miracle defensively on the left (because he is left footed!? Who knows what the thought process behind that was… other than desparation?
If he's starting for the reserves and not the first team it can't be because of talent, because we know what he is capable of with a good run.
Any ideas what else it could be?
Thing is, it aint scientific. All of us on here have seen enough football to know when a youngish player has something, Ramsey had that something, Earnie had that something (Although a bit unorthodox) Nathan Blake had that something, as did Joe Ledley and Chris Gunter to a lesser degree, although he had spades of character and a willingness to get involved, he was never afraid to make mistakes, he didn't hide, and look at the career he has had.
Point is, what those lads had couldn't be coached, they were on it, right from the start. Confidence and belief can over ride so many frailties, i'd say that all of the players i have mentioned (ishould have included Ralls) had that edge, belief, a willingness about them. It seems that Bagan may struggle with that, and maybe Colwill and Davies to a lesser degree. All three of them can play a bit, but coaching isn't going to give them what they need, they've been coached since they were 8 years old, they know the drill by now.
I just think the last 3 managers dont rate him enough and prefer experience.
And its not going well. Monday in particular the LB/LWB situation was farcical.
If O Dowda is fit or even Ralls then id probably go with them. But I think Bagan has to be given a chance before the 3 who played there Saturday.
Given Bagan hasn't signed a new deal ("That's why we asked months ago, weeks ago, to sign a contract with him."), there's little point using him now if he's mentally out the door already.
I agree. Although Lamouchi didn't appear to realise how many first team games Bagan has played when he spoke about him today. He gave the impression that Bagan was an academy prospect who might break into the first team squad next year (not last year!).
It's too late to be giving people "chances". We have to field our strongest possible team. With as many players with a good head on their shoulders as possible.
Ojo played left wing back against Reading when O'Dowda went off. Me and Pont Blue pointed out that Lamouchi had messed up with a few things that night (we ended with 9 fit players too) but Sawyers' late winner stopped too many questions being asked. One of which would've been why haven't we got any cover at left back in the 18.
Philogene has done well as a wing back at home so far but one obvious problem has been that it means Romeo being left out. Monday gave a chance to play them both with a plan B that if Romeo couldn't cope as a left back then Philogene could move forward and Ojo fill in on the left again. Lamouchi's luck ran out this time though and now the questions are being asked.
Interesting that he's chosen now to big Bagan up and I think you've hit the nail on the head for the reasons behind that. He's realised he may have to call on him at some point soon. At least we'll have a decent option if we need to put an outfield player in goal again.
It looks like O'Dowda will be okay for tomorrow and, hopefully, for the rest of the season. Despite my criticism of the manager for ignoring Bagan on Monday and my general championing of younger players, O'Dowda is the best left back/wing back option we have available at the moment and he has to start if fit.
While I agree with the points you make about O’Dowda, I think his better qualities are from a starting point further up the pitch. I would like to see him first and foremost creating attacking opportunities from that advanced starting point, and I think he has showed that he is mindful of his defensive responsibilities as well.
While not a fan of our Neil’s style of football, he always recognises the need, when necessary, to fit the round pegs into round holes when the square pegs don’t fit. I say that as a general comment about our squad as a whole, and not aimed at O’Dowda.
I just don't see what motivation Bagan has for signing a new deal with us.
He'd be better off looking to maybe drop a division to get game time and be back in the Championship in a few seasons.
The times Ive seen him play - he looks decent enough - just needs game time - which he isnt going to get when we are in a fight to stay up. Needs a season long loan where he'll get lots of games in League 1
I think he will be just fine being around the first team next season, on the bench as understudy to Jamilu Collins.
We can then push O'Dowda back up the pitch.
Only my way of thinking mind.
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