Where do Hudson and Lamouchi stand in the canon of City managers?

[Eric the Half a Bee]

It would probably come as no surprise that neither manager features among City's finest gaffers. Mark Hudson has the joint 5th worst win percentage, alongside Jimmy Goodfellow and only Bobby Gould, Paul Trollope, Graham Williams and Terry Yorath can boast a worse rate. Meanwhile, Sabri Lamouchi's loss percentage is 6th worst in our history, just behind Williams, Trollope, Goodfellow, Yorath and Alan Durban. Hudson's problems were lack of wins, Lamouchi's were too many defeats. Both lie 22nd out of 38 in terms of wins (Lamouchi) and defeats (Hudson), so not great, but reasonable for a team that has struggled like we have this season.

Both managers rank in the bottom 10 for goal scoring. Lamouchi's defensive record is the 13th worst of any City manager, but there's a bit of a surprise as Hudson's side had the 5th best defensive record for any City manager, only bettered by Kenny Hibbitt, Lennie Lawrence, Frankie Burrows and Bill McCandless. In fact, in terms of just league games, Hudson's City would have been ranked 3rd. Quite remarkable considering how poor we were under him (and through the whole season).

Home form, as it has been for the last three seasons at least, has been dire. Hudson's home record overall is the 2nd worst in terms of wins, Lamouchi's is ranked 5th worst. Lamouchi's goals conceded and defeat percentage are also within the bottom 10.

Only McCandless, McCarthy and Harris have better away win percentages than Lamouchi, though only 8 managers have worse way defeat percentages. Hudson's away defensive record is 3rd best among City managers.

Despite a few surprising stats, it's difficult to say that either manager, statistically at least, was better than Solskjaer.

[Des Parrot]

Durban only gets a single mention, my memory not what it was.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Durban only gets a single mention, my memory not what it was.

We're at that level, worse than Alan Durban!!

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Apart from the wedding night has your missus ever seen you or are you too busy with these zany stat festivals ?

I don't think this is what she had in mind when she said I do

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Apart from the wedding night has your missus ever seen you or are you too busy with these zany stat festivals ?

I don't think this is what she had in mind when she said I do

Have I touched a nerve?

[Father Dougal]

Not stats related but have we lost a manager in similar circumstances to sabri before? Ie at the end of their contract rather than sacked (or poached but that hasn't happened since Phil neal has it?)

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Not stats related but have we lost a manager in similar circumstances to sabri before? Ie at the end of their contract rather than sacked (or poached but that hasn't happened since Phil neal has it?)

Interesting question. I doubt it. Would I be right in assuming that, years ago, managers kept their jobs on some sort of rolling contract until they got sacked? Like players, it was assumed you'd stay at the club until another club bought you. Contracts only really became "in facto" after Bosman.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Have I touched a nerve?

Call me a relationship counsellor

I think I may have found my calling

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Call me a relationship counsellor

I think I may have found my calling

Given your lack of success in this field, I doubt it.

It's not the first time you've tried to have a dig at me here. She enjoys watching crap on TV in the evenings. I don't. There are no problems.

[Cyclops]

My tuppence (fwiw) is that Hudson inherited a decent defensive set-up and can't really be commended for the goals against fugure assigned to him.

Lamouchi, at the very least got us scoring goals, which was vital to keep us up.

Overall, they were managerial dregs - something that Tan did get right.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Interesting question. I doubt it. Would I be right in assuming that, years ago, managers kept their jobs on some sort of rolling contract until they got sacked? Like players, it was assumed you'd stay at the club until another club bought you. Contracts only really became "in facto" after Bosman.

Dave Jones was on a rolling contract

Miserable git

[jon1959]

Dave Jones was on a rolling contract

Miserable git

There was a time when Jones was the third longest serving manager in the leagues (behind Ferguson and Wenger) - after something like 6 years with Cardiff. I quite liked that - even if he was a miserable git with a talent for blowing play off pushes.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

There was a time when Jones was the third longest serving manager in the leagues (behind Ferguson and Wenger) - after something like 6 years with Cardiff. I quite liked that - even if he was a miserable git with a talent for blowing play off pushes.

It helped that, in most of those seasons we were challenging at the right end of the Championship at some point. In the season where we started badly and never got going in the league, we got to the FA cup final.

The end of season debates always followed the same format - "he'll get us promoted next season", "no he won't he'll bottle it again"..... I remember where I was when he got sacked. New Look, Glasgow. I was delighted, only because he had convinced me that he would never get us promoted, he'd had all the chances in the world.

[North Cardiff Blue]

There was a time when Jones was the third longest serving manager in the leagues (behind Ferguson and Wenger) - after something like 6 years with Cardiff. I quite liked that - even if he was a miserable git with a talent for blowing play off pushes.

He had to keep selling his best players, he did a great job when you look back, and we played good football!

[Hilts]

He had to keep selling his best players, he did a great job when you look back, and we played good football!

Another Dave Jones myth. He didnt have to keep selling his best players and he didnt work on a shoestring budget (often claimed) . Bothroyd - never sold - left for nothing. Ledley -never sold- bid from Stoke rejected- left for nothing. Whitts never sold left for nothing.

Obviously there were sales players had ambitions of playing at a higher level.

However Jones was backed and we held on to players we could have sold for big money.

[North Cardiff Blue]

Another Dave Jones myth. He didnt have to keep selling his best players and he didnt work on a shoestring budget (often claimed) . Bothroyd - never sold - left for nothing. Ledley -never sold- bid from Stoke rejected- left for nothing. Whitts never sold left for nothing.

Obviously there were sales players had ambitions of playing at a higher level.

However Jones was backed and we held on to players we could have sold for big money.

From memory without looking into it.

Chopra, McCormack, Loovens, Ramsey, Johnson, Jerome, Alexander, Hasselbeck, and Heaton were any of them sold?

I may be off the mark, but I seem to remember he had to sell a big name most years?

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Given your lack of success in this field, I doubt it.

It's not the first time you've tried to have a dig at me here. She enjoys watching crap on TV in the evenings. I don't. There are no problems.

Oh get a grip

I am doing some gentle rib tickling not trying to upset you ff sake

Sort yourself out you soppy tart

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

There was a time when Jones was the third longest serving manager in the leagues (behind Ferguson and Wenger) - after something like 6 years with Cardiff. I quite liked that - even if he was a miserable git with a talent for blowing play off pushes.

He was over rated imo

[Pedro de la Rosa]

Neither manager bought a player. The problems with the squad lie in last summer's farce.

Lamouchi is the best of a bad bunch of managers we've had this season and Morison's tactics and squad building are the root cause of our on pitch issues, with a large slice of Tan's decision making contributing to the whole mess.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Neither manager bought a player. The problems with the squad lie in last summer's farce.

Lamouchi is the best of a bad bunch of managers we've had this season and Morison's tactics and squad building are the root cause of our on pitch issues, with a large slice of Tan's decision making contributing to the whole mess.

I think that's a pretty fair summary. Hudson went with a more defensive approach. Lamouchi tried to be a bit more attacking. Both approaches had their strengths and weaknesses. Hudson's lack of goals was always going to be a problem, while Lamouchi's defence was likewise. Somewhere in the middle was nothingness.

[North Cardiff Blue]

Neither manager bought a player. The problems with the squad lie in last summer's farce.

Lamouchi is the best of a bad bunch of managers we've had this season and Morison's tactics and squad building are the root cause of our on pitch issues, with a large slice of Tan's decision making contributing to the whole mess.

Both didn't have a left-back all season, a dodgy keeper, I would have added Strkers but Kabba was pretty good.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Neither manager bought a player. The problems with the squad lie in last summer's farce.

Lamouchi is the best of a bad bunch of managers we've had this season and Morison's tactics and squad building are the root cause of our on pitch issues, with a large slice of Tan's decision making contributing to the whole mess.

Lamouchi was as good as we were likely to get

But that was until this morning

Onwards

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Lamouchi was as good as we were likely to get

But that was until this morning

Onwards

So, if Lamouchi was as good as we were going to get, that makes Hudson not quite as bad.

[Pedro de la Rosa]

So, if Lamouchi was as good as we were going to get, that makes Hudson not quite as bad.

Lamouchi's last two were nothing games, especially after the game on the Thursday night where the players left everything out there. The first game, he'd been there 5 minutes. He didn't have Robinson for most of his time at the club. Hudson was terrible here, the players and results were getting worse and worse. What were the positives?

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Lamouchi's last two were nothing games, especially after the game on the Thursday night where the players left everything out there. The first game, he'd been there 5 minutes. He didn't have Robinson for most of his time at the club. Hudson was terrible here, the players and results were getting worse and worse. What were the positives?

There are no positives with either. Warnock had a far more positive hit with Huddersfield. He was a success there, not that I'm suggesting he'd have had the same impact here.

Lamouchi's stats for his time here aren't great. He kept us up but we had the second worst stats of all the sides that were embroiled in the relegation battle since February. Some of his stats are among the worst in Cardiff managerial history.

Carry on thinking that Hudson was shite and Lamouchi was great. They were both roughly on a par. I'm not blaming either of them, btw. They both had the same group of players, who also take responsibility for things.