The Manics

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Dunno what you're moaning about ....that's about as Welsh as you get.

People who follow Welsh football teams is probably a small minority of the overall football following population in our country.

Same as people who vote for english political parties, watch english tv and read english newspapers.

I'd echo some of the sentiments on here regarding how successful they have been whilst maintaining substance in terms of the songs' messages.

Desgin for Life live , back when it was fresh is stirring to say the least.

What is about as Welsh as you can get ?

I am not a manics fan , I appreciate that others do but I don't rate them

Just because a lot of Taff's support English football teams does not mean that its OK and it can't be commented on .

I think it's embarrassing to see the manics hang Welsh dragons on their amps and then hear that nicky wire hoovers his front room in a spurs shirt

It's pathetic

He may as well hang a flag of St George out of his window

[Divine Wright]

What is about as Welsh as you can get ?

I am not a manics fan , I appreciate that others do but I don't rate them

Just because a lot of Taff's support English football teams does not mean that its OK and it can't be commented on .

I think it's embarrassing to see the manics hang Welsh dragons on their amps and then hear that nicky wire hoovers his front room in a spurs shirt

It's pathetic

He may as well hang a flag of St George out of his window

I'm not stickin' up for them per se.

....just saying everyone is probably a bit of a hypocrite in that regard. Doesn't mean you can't be pro-independence or whatever the purest embodiment of being a welsh person is.

You vote labour , not Plaid. You drink english IPA, not Tomos Watkin. etc etc

I grew up in Bargoed and I think most of the kids in my school supported Liverpool ....maybe Everton......as did I until my father (whose father was a Cardiffian and took him to watch Cardiff) took me to my first city match. The other kids' parents probably didn't care about football much. I think had I grown up where I did and my father was from a similar background to my mother, I might well have never supported Cardiff City. I might still be pro-indy ....

...same thing with folk on this board who are butcher's apron wavers ....their parents are probably from abroad or something ...or more specifically , england.

in fact, I think it's far weirder to be a Cardiff City fan and love the union, england, the queen....or king...

[NYCBlue]

It's self-explanatory, categories are organised by style, form or content.

No it isn't. And no they are not.

[Wales-Bales]

No it isn't. And no they are not.

Are you now saying the Merriam-Webster dictionary is wrong?

[NYCBlue]

Are you now saying the Merriam-Webster dictionary is wrong?

I'm saying you are wrong. You've chosen to oversimplify something that is quite complex. You cannot categorise art in a manner of your chosing when its creator does not wish it to be catergorised so. Ask William Reid if he was in a shoegaze band. Or if you feel really brave ask Siouxsie if she was in a Goth band.

[Wales-Bales]

I'm saying you are wrong. You've chosen to oversimplify something that is quite complex. You cannot categorise art in a manner of your chosing when its creator does not wish it to be catergorised so. Ask William Reid if he was in a shoegaze band. Or if you feel really brave ask Siouxsie if she was in a Goth band.

I said that every major music publication has Loveless down as a shoegaze album, and I gave you the Merriam-Webster definition of genre, and you said they are all wrong.

[Tuerto]

I said that every major music publication has Loveless down as a shoegaze album, and I gave you the Merriam-Webster definition of genre, and you said they are all wrong.

He's a 'Free Thinker' doesn't take what the media says for granted, I would've thought that you would celebrate that.

[Wales-Bales]

He's a 'Free Thinker' doesn't take what the media says for granted, I would've thought that you would celebrate that.

The problem starts when you reject the dictionary definition of a word, and then you end up talking about apples and pairs.

[Tuerto]

The problem starts when you reject the dictionary definition of a word, and then you end up talking about apples and pairs.

Pairs of what?

[Wales-Bales]

Pairs of what?

I reject the dictionary meaning of pairs.

[Tuerto]

I reject the dictionary meaning of pairs.

I quite like that

[Lost Johnny]

That's her

Emma Anderson on other guitars ?

I think the drummer or bassist killed himself and they split up ?

It was the drummer Chris Acland. He was found dead as a result of suicide by hanging, apparently in his parents' garden.

Lush made the excellent Black Spring EP, their dreamy, ethereal, swirling sound epitomised shoegaze.

Although the term shoegaze wasn't around in 1982, early Cocteau Twins certainly laid the foundations for that genre.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

It was the drummer Chris Acland. He was found dead as a result of suicide by hanging, apparently in his parents' garden.

Lush made the excellent Black Spring EP, their dreamy, ethereal, swirling sound epitomised shoegaze.

Although the term shoegaze wasn't around in 1982, early Cocteau Twins certainly laid the foundations for that genre.

Poor fecker

Cocteau twins I enjoyed , swirling guitars

Heaven or Las Vegas and Treasure my fav albums

Throwing Muses were another indie band metal heads like me could appreciate

2 good guitarists in that band

[NYCBlue]

Poor fecker

Cocteau twins I enjoyed , swirling guitars

Heaven or Las Vegas and Treasure my fav albums

Throwing Muses were another indie band metal heads like me could appreciate

2 good guitarists in that band

The first album is the best in my opinion. I think you might like it. No riffage of course, but some of the guitar work is quite biting. Listen to the Hollow Men. They are not my favorite band, but they're definitely the band I loved the most a certain moment.

[Wales-Bales]

Although the term shoegaze wasn't around in 1982, early Cocteau Twins certainly laid the foundations for that genre.

That's where the definition of genre comes in handy. Shoegaze is just a label, but various bands can be linked through "musical composition characterized by a particular style, form, or content". That would be things like musical influences, equipment, production values, etc. Shoegaze and dream pop artists favoured offset guitars, elements of distortion, reverse reverbs, and vocals lower in the mix. That's why bands like the JAMC are considered to be a shoegaze influence due to their wall of sound production. The video posted earlier in the thread goes all the way back to the influence of Phil Spector. It's a similar story with heavy metal, it's roots can be traced back to earlier music. I remember Jimmy Page saying how important Link Ray was to him.

[NYCBlue]

I said that every major music publication has Loveless down as a shoegaze album, and I gave you the Merriam-Webster definition of genre, and you said they are all wrong.

Say hypothetically you are Kevin Shields, everyone calls your band a shoegaze band, (after the fact) but you don't think you are a shoegaze band. You're kind of heavy and you create a wall of sound. Do we consult the dictionary?

[NYCBlue]

That's where the definition of genre comes in handy. Shoegaze is just a label, but various bands can be linked through "musical composition characterized by a particular style, form, or content". That would be things like musical influences, equipment, production values, etc. Shoegaze and dream pop artists favoured offset guitars, elements of distortion, reverse reverbs, and vocals lower in the mix. That's why bands like the JAMC are considered to be a shoegaze influence due to their wall of sound production.

The term shoegaze comes from bands looking at their pedals. The JAMC just created rock and roll songs but with a ton of feedback. (incidentally only their first record) Everything after that is pretty straightforward.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

The first album is the best in my opinion. I think you might like it. No riffage of course, but some of the guitar work is quite biting. Listen to the Hollow Men. They are not my favorite band, but they're definitely the band I loved the most a certain moment.

What was that band with toni halliday on vocals , curve that's it , they were quite heavy

[Wales-Bales]

That's where the definition of genre comes in handy. Shoegaze is just a label, but various bands can be linked through "musical composition characterized by a particular style, form, or content". That would be things like musical influences, equipment, production values, etc. Shoegaze and dream pop artists favoured offset guitars, elements of distortion, reverse reverbs, and vocals lower in the mix. That's why bands like the JAMC are considered to be a shoegaze influence due to their wall of sound production. The video posted earlier in the thread goes all the way back to the influence of Phil Spector. It's a similar story with heavy metal, it's roots can be traced back to earlier music. I remember Jimmy Page saying how important Link Ray was to him.

*Link Wray

[NYCBlue]

https://pitchfork.com/features/lists...l-time/?page=5

Verve. Shoegaze?

[Wales-Bales]

The term shoegaze comes from bands looking at their pedals. The JAMC just created rock and roll songs but with a ton of feedback. (incidentally only their first record) Everything after that is pretty straightforward.

Shoegaze is just an arbitrary label, and it has nothing to do with how a genre is formed.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Smiths , student indie band

Pixies .....rock band

Mogwai.....rock band

Wet Leg .....student indie band


My view is if someone has a heavy sound they are in my record collection

The NME can piss off

Bloody students

[Wales-Bales]

https://pitchfork.com/features/lists...l-time/?page=5

Verve. Shoegaze?

One of their early albums is considered to be shoegaze, but most bands quickly moved on stylistically after Britpop came on the scene.

[NYCBlue]

Shoegaze is just an arbitrary label, and it has nothing to do with how a genre is formed.

So now it's arbitrary? I thought you were arguing that genres were fixed and defined by the dictionary.

I refer you to the above post about Verve.

[Wales-Bales]

So now it's arbitrary?

Somebody from a music publication came up with the name, you can't get any more arbitrary than that.

Watch this video if you haven't already.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XFB4gl1Iok