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I, and millions of others I’d guess, desperately want the current Government out, but sometimes you wonder what’s the point?
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-next-election
If they have ruled it out then perhaps that should tell you it’s not possible given the financial circumstances of the UK
Remember when clegg promised and promised to scrap university tuition fees?
Then he found himself as deputy PM and had to fess up it wasn’t possible.
I’m surprised you believe any of them to be honest
Very sad and yes it makes you wonder why vote for them. The only reason would be to get rid of this nightmare government and hope Labour can grow some cajones over time. If and when the party is installed as incumbent it would be heartening to see Starmer and Reeves removed. I don't like either of them.Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
Of course it was possible.
It was a political choice.
Clegg in bed with the Tories made a different choice.
And lost his seat! (Karma)
Lost to an awful Labour Party fella called Jared O'Mara who was jailed for fraud. Bloody corrupt Tories.
As for the coalition those 5 days in May simply exposed Labours naivety and being unrepared to offer the Lib's enough to bite on , in fact they offered very little to Clegg.
Brown as PM was also a big turn off.
Wonder if groundhog day is approaching as Labour merge themselves into a pink blue variant.
How they will finance their plans is beyond me, hopefully Rachel will stop trying to get false votes via pretending to be Lite Blair Tory.
Where's Angela??
That's not a surprise. Most things are beyond you.
However, to keep things very simple, Labour has decided it will copy Tory tax and spending plans until such a time in the future (distant future..... very distant) when 'the economy' has grown enough to support something more ambitious.
Starmer appears to be desperate to ensure that 'Nu Labour - Tory Lite' is the reality and the donors are not scared off!
Clegg looked at the cost and decided against it, the figures hadn’t changed he just lied to the electorate. I don’t think he ever said how he would fund it.
Corbyn should start his own real socialist party and then all true socialists will have a true socialist party to vote for. A bit like farage did with brexit party and before that ukip
I don't care wether starmer gets a 50 seat majority or that labour is the biggest party and has to form a coalition
Either will do
Just getting that bunch of freaks out of power is the first step
The next will be proportional representation so the conservatives become marginalised and for that to happen a new social democratic party will have to emerge
If it doesn't the whole washing machine cycle will run and run
I think this is Labour's last chance . It needs party discipline . All the factions mouthing off about labour not being left wing enough will just play into the Tories hands .
Shut up until we have got the blue meanies out . Then debate .
It wouldn't surprise me at all if they blow it . Some great people in the labour party but too many hopeless idiots and a very amateurish approach when they need to be ruthless .
“Shut up until we have got the blue meanies out . Then debate .”
So you are advocating telling lies in order to get a party out of power you think tell lies 🫣
You’re a true socialist sludge so if Corbyn formed a party based on the foundations of socialism would you vote for it?
Plenty of brexit / ukip supporters followed their convictions and voted for a party that reflected their beliefs
No , I advocate keeping quiet and pulling in the same direction until the Tories are defeated
Once that's happened then people can argue about who is the best socialist till the cows come home
I am not a socialist I think in 2023 the country needs a moderate alternative to the clowns in charge
Starmer and Reeves are not the answer in fact if starmer resigned tomorrow that would be fine by me and I would support nandy
But the long ball game is the replacement of the labour and liberals with a democratic centre alternative to the Tories and electoral reform to keep them out of power
It's no more complicated than that
I'm a red hot socialist and I shall be gritting my teeth (maybe not biting my tongue) while this sorry lot are the next incumbents. However I agree with you Sludge on this one. For the sake of everyone's sanity and the future of our country the absolute priority is to get the Tory tossers out.
Maybe the electorate isn't ready for socialism yet but I'm a big believer in "slowly slowly catchee monkey".
They can't catch criminals, let alone monkeys..
Yes they can. They've caught out loads of Tory fraudsters!
the lib Dems were a tiny proportion of the coalition, they didn't have enough sway within the coalition to get that policy through. I'm no lib dem fan at all, but I think the flack they receive, specifically clegg over it is ridiculous.
Over the last 20 years any idea how many Tories , Labour or Lib Dem MPs have been sent to prison for fraud ?
I have no idea but Jeffrey Archer and Jonathan Aikten got sent down
I don't know what for
If I had been the judge it would have been nice and simple
Are you Jeffrey Archer and you Jonathan Aitken a pair of slimey Tories?
Them 2 .......yes !
Me .....send em down , 10 years
I did a little bit of research here previously -
The seven Labour MP's who have been jailed in the last ten years are: David Chayter, Eric Illsley, Denis MacShane, Fiona Onasanya, Jim Devine, Elliot Morley and Claudia Webbe.
And the only conservative you can think of are 2 (one of those wasnt an MP when he went down) - there was an ex conservative jailed recently for sexual assault. Did keith Vaz (Labour home affairs chairman) go down for his rent boy drugs bust ? - I think he got off with a warning.
I think there was a SNP MP that got jailed for assault and the Lib Dem MP Hume who got his wife to take his points - I think she went down as well.
So with there being more Labour MPs jailed than Conservatives - do you still stand by your opinion ?
You didn't do your little bit of research very well.
I only looked at one of your list of 'the seven Labour MPs who have been jailed.....' and she wasn't. Claudia Webbe was not jailed. Still an MP (sitting as an Independent for Leicester East). She got 80 hours community service on appeal and a compensation order reduced from £1000 to £50. Her 'victim' was described as a liar by the judge. She did something stupid and gave Starmer an excuse to remove the Labour whip - but jailed? No.
This is a bit of an odd thread detour. I think Dorcus is wrong - most Tory fraudsters don't get caught - they get peerages. Most MPs who get sent to prison were from Northern Ireland during the Troubles (both sides) or Labour MPs who refused to pay the Poll Tax. By the time an MP is convicted of anything they are ex MPs - long resigned or given the push. Jared O'Mara is a case in point. My hazy memory of who has been convicted over recent decades is that they come from all parties - recent Tories amongst them (Charlie Elphicke). I am more concerned about the crimes they don't get prosecuted, convicted or sent down for.
What opinion
The naughty boys and girls in northern Ireland were almost all unionists
So basically Tories
And of course top up fees were introduced by Labour.
Not really. This was one if their flagship policies and I'm sure many young people particularly will have voted for them because of it. As such is was disingenuous in the extreme to ditch it to achieve a taste of power.
Very sensible post. And what sensible people would take from it, and what the moral of the story is, is that good and bad exist in all parties.
Something is either a crime or it isn't. So I would hope any / all crimes committed get dealt with.
Some on here seem to have a different opinion to what a crime actually is.
Judge Sludge would lock someone up for having the audacity to not vote Labour or even for just being a conservative MP. Get the liars out and replace them with his preferred set of liars...
I'd love it if welsh media would scrutinise the Senedd a bit more including AM's / consulting companies they associate with - but that never seems to happen
'Judge Sludge'. Superb name. Why hasn't that been used before?!Something is either a crime or it isn't. So I would hope any / all crimes committed get dealt with.
Some on here seem to have a different opinion to what a crime actually is.
Judge Sludge would lock someone up for having the audacity to not vote Labour or even for just being a conservative MP. Get the liars out and replace them with his preferred set of liars...
I'd love it if welsh media would scrutinise the Senedd a bit more including AM's / consulting companies they associate with - but that never seems to happen
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