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He'd played a lot more than Merson in the world cup qualifiers. Merson only came off the bench once in 98, and that is what gazza could have done. Mersons spot is the only one gazza could have had, really. He wouldn't have been a starter.Originally Posted by Hilts
Mentally, he was in a bad place with the booze, but then so was Merson. Perhaps Merson wasn't as bad, or perhaps he was just able to function a lot better.
I'm not saying gazza should have gone. He might have gone totally mad there. Just that with hoddle's history, he could have made space for a natural, albeit fading, talent.
Hoddle as England manager was more influenced by his religious convictions and beliefs to win football matches than actual football.
Didn't Gascoigne upset one of Hoddle's 'advisors' which some think may have influenced his decision to deem Gascoigne top much of a risk? The advisor was Eileen Drewery.
Gazza was probably a distraction they didn’t need in 98. For footballing reasons alone he should have been in the squad, even if just as an impact sub, but I imagine going to a World Cup finals for a potential 4 weeks there’s many other things at play and he was just too much of a risk.
Some of the stories of his behaviour at Italia 90 are utterly insane
Hoddle did seem to go a bit David Icke around that time but for footballing reasons there’s no way he should have lost his job. Venables the same
I think if someone like Hoddle was in charge of this current crop of players they would have won a major tournament now. Much like he was as a player i think Hoddle the manager, tactically, was way ahead of his time. He played a 5 at the back with sweeper system and wing backs for Swindon when the English game was deeply entrenched in 442.
Long reign Gareth Southgate.
I think you'll find Ingerlund played with a sweeper and 5 at the back in Italia 90.
You're right though, Hoddle would do better with their squad than Southgate. As long as he didn't go all Jim Jones with them.
As far as I am concerned the English football team can naff off and I hope they lose every game they ever play
I think Bobby Robsons version of a sweeper system and 5 at the back was a bit more negative and defensively minded than Hoddles mate.
Walker was a terrific defender but he was no libero.
Aside from the kamikaze game against a very ill disciplined Cameroon England scored very few goals in Italia 90.
Bobby Robson was the original Southgate. Nice man, negative manager and should have achieved more with the players at his disposal.
If Venables has been in charge of that 1990 side they would have won it.
No they wouldn't. Cameroon would have beaten them, even with Venables as manager. Being more attacking against them would have been a disaster.I think Bobby Robsons version of a sweeper system and 5 at the back was a bit more negative and defensively minded than Hoddles mate.
Walker was a terrific defender but he was no libero.
Aside from the kamikaze game against a very ill disciplined Cameroon England scored very few goals in Italia 90.
Bobby Robson was the original Southgate. Nice man, negative manager and should have achieved more with the players at his disposal.
If Venables has been in charge of that 1990 side they would have won it.
You're being a lot unfair on Bobby Robson. His Ipswich team were a good watch and he took a provincial club to European honours. He took Ronaldo to PSV and won the league in Netherlands, then Portugal with Porto. Won a couple of cups with Barcelona. I think he got lucky in Italia 90 but a fit Bryan Robson alongside Gascoigne would've been interesting.I think Bobby Robsons version of a sweeper system and 5 at the back was a bit more negative and defensively minded than Hoddles mate.
Walker was a terrific defender but he was no libero.
Aside from the kamikaze game against a very ill disciplined Cameroon England scored very few goals in Italia 90.
Bobby Robson was the original Southgate. Nice man, negative manager and should have achieved more with the players at his disposal.
If Venables has been in charge of that 1990 side they would have won it.
As England manager, I think Hoddle had his most consistent playing period under Robson which included playing in Mexico 86.
Not having a go at his club career but, much like Southgate, he was very pragmatic as England manager, particularly in tournament finals. That is undeniable.
In fact, he started the tournament 442 then went to 5
at the back in the last group game to ensure a point and stuck with it.
In your opinion and let’s be fair with your opening post on this thread you’ll excuse me if I don’t give it much credence.
Stick to the stats Eric.
What was England's formation under Venables in Euro 96?
I remember it as 442.
Probably, 442 was still very much entrenched in English football in 1996 but from recollection it was a more attacking version. The demolition of Holland 4-1 is arguably one of Englands best finals performances of the last 40 years.
Robsons record in finals was poor, he didn’t qualify for the 84 finals and then he won just 1 group game out of 9 and only scored more than 1 goals in 1 of them. He only won 1 knockout game in 90 minutes too.
It was Hoddle who started playing with the formation he had Jamie Redknapp playing a libero role.
Robson's European Championships record was poor. Failed to qualify in 84 and had their arses handed to them in 88.
World Cup, he took them further in that tournament since Ramsey.
Lost in 86 to Maradona, lost in 90 on penalties. In the 70s he was seen as a progressive coach. Brought in Dutch players to Ipswich and coaching techniques.
I'm coming across as a right Robson fan boy here. I think the English FA knobbed it up when they didn't appoint Venables after Robson.
How did this become a 4 pager? I love Whitts. He's the best long-serving player in my lifetime. He's no LeTissier though. Not even close. They both lacked hunger/ambition, If Whitts had the desire, he may have surpassed LeTissier. But if LeTissier had the same, forget about it.
He did get quite far in 1990 but let’s be honest it was very pragmatic and dour stuff to get there, 2 draws and a win with just 2 goals in the group, an 120th
minute winner in a 1-0 in last 16 and the only exciting game was the Cameroon game which was more down to the Africans. The semi was arguably their best performance of the tournament.
Southgate has taken them to a semi and a final but his football is still pragmatic.
The FA have always gone for the safe option, if they were choosing a manager for football reasons Clough would have had the job and Venables and Hoddle would certainly have had longer in the role. Venables lost just 1 game as England manger. On
Penalties.
Crazy comparison and I love Whitts
Plus, completely different players for a starter
It's YouTube mate.
They are. I have no problem with that. But they both had talent. And obviously, LeTissiier had more.
It's perspectives isn't it.
As exciting and lauded Venables England win over the Netherlands was, the Dutch weren't a happy camp. The only other team England beat was Scotland.
They were crap against Switzerland, scabbed their way past Spain and unreservedly lost to Germany.
The English FA when ran by Millichip and Croker were always an utter shambles. The scenes from the film Mike Bassett are probably factual.
I think it was the Christmas tree formation.
Didn't someone call it the Diamond formation as well? Due to there being 2 players behind the 1 up front? I wonder how we could have described Mick's 5 central defenders formation-The Great Wall formation-but not so great
Well I never had you down as such a Bobby Robson fan-boy
You cant down play that Venables team performance against Holland in 96 because the Dutch "were not a happy camp". They have never been a happy camp!!!!.
Who would have thought two welsh men getting into such a debate about historic English management teams eh.
Besides I dont know how this debate has tutned into Robson v Venables it was Hoddle I was lauding as an innovative manager ahead of his time.
It was supposed to say "undeservedly".Well I never had you down as such a Bobby Robson fan-boy
You cant down play that Venables team performance against Holland in 96 because the Dutch "were not a happy camp". They have never been a happy camp!!!!.
Who would have thought two welsh men getting into such a debate about historic English management teams eh.
Besides I dont know how this debate has tutned into Robson v Venables it was Hoddle I was lauding as an innovative manager ahead of his time.
I come across as a fan boy but he got lucky in Italia 90.
It's just perspective. Liked Venables as a coach but in hindsight he probably should've practiced penalties. To bring this whole circle who would've entrusted Gareth Southgate to take one?
Hoddle using a faith healer was certainly ahead of his time!
Unfortunately for him Eileen Drewery will always over shadow anything else he did in management, especially his time with England.
A good article on Hoddles time with England.
https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features...ng-man-england
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