20mph online petition

[Rjk]

Yesterday there was a serious crash in Swansea and two youngsters were seriously injured. According to Walesonline, one young driver has been charged with dangerous driving. It seems that many accidents where someone is seriously injured has involved dangerous driving. Most accidents where young people are seriously injured involve young drivers.

Let's face it - 20mph speed limits aren't going to stop idiot driving like it or youngsters taking risks their inexperience cannot evaluate.

all the evidence from other schemes suggests that the 20mph speed limit will save about 10 lives a year and probably hundreds of serious injuries, countless more bumps in traffic where nobody was injured.

is that not worth adding a minute to your commute?

[xsnaggle]

I think the flaw with that argument is that in the last several years nowhere near that number of people have actually been killed in accidents on 30 MPH roads in the first place (if I read Eric's post right) so it is difficult to use the "Save 10 lives a year" argument.

[Rjk]

I think the flaw with that argument is that in the last several years nowhere near that number of people have actually been killed in accidents on 30 MPH roads in the first place (if I read Eric's post right) so it is difficult to use the "Save 10 lives a year" argument.

I don't think Eric's numbers are correct

[Eric the Half a Bee]

all the evidence from other schemes suggests that the 20mph speed limit will save about 10 lives a year and probably hundreds of serious injuries, countless more bumps in traffic where nobody was injured.

is that not worth adding a minute to your commute?

Why make it such a binary choice? It could have been implemented in a far better way that would have reduced accidents yet allowed motorists to make progress where the roads naturally allow.

Yesterday I went out for a drive from Pontypridd, through Ynysybwl, over the top to Perthcelyn and up to Aberdare. It's 20mph until you go over the railway bridge, then it's 40mph all the way to Ynysybwl, even though part of that is driving where there is a school and lots of houses. Before you get to the Bwl there's a stretch of about a mile where there are no houses at all. All 40mph, though used to be 50.

Then it's 20 through the Bwl, including through some sections that are far less residential than the 40mph a few miles before. It's a little narrow going through Old Ynysybwl and few manage much more than 20mph anyway, then you're out in the country. Still 20mph for about half a mile where there are only a couple of houses. Why 20 there and 40 earlier on. Then, finally, national speed limit applies. Laughably this is on a windy, steep road where anyone able to reach 60 is likely to be killed.

Then it is back to 20 as we approach Perthcelyn. Then left and there's about a mile of downhill road, with glorious views of the Cynon Valley, nothing about, still 20mph. Why? It's still 20mph through Miskin and a thousand speed humps, until we reach Fernhill. Now goes back to 40mph going past the train station and where pedestrians cross often. Is that a safer bit of road than the one going down from Perthcelyn? Of course not.

Lastly it's 20 all the way to Aberdare through Aberaman, though the local industrial estate is 30 and where there are frequent bumps from impatient drivers trying to turn onto what is a busy road.

It's all totally illogical and I get why drivers are pissed off. There are plenty of 20s where there is absolutely no need and where there is no history of accidents. That's the problem.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

I think the flaw with that argument is that in the last several years nowhere near that number of people have actually been killed in accidents on 30 MPH roads in the first place (if I read Eric's post right) so it is difficult to use the "Save 10 lives a year" argument.

Spreadsheet malfunction. However, a lot of the issue is with dangerous driving and young drivers. Unfortunately the spreadsheets don't provide info about dangerous driving charges.

There will always be idiots on the road. There will always be pedestrians too pissed or drugged up to have any concept of safety. Road safety continues to improve and we'd be better off educating the public, not forcing stupid blanket (and it is blanket as the new speed limit is set as a default that can be changed if necessary) speed limits.

[PontBlue]

Why make it such a binary choice? It could have been implemented in a far better way that would have reduced accidents yet allowed motorists to make progress where the roads naturally allow.

Yesterday I went out for a drive from Pontypridd, through Ynysybwl, over the top to Perthcelyn and up to Aberdare. It's 20mph until you go over the railway bridge, then it's 40mph all the way to Ynysybwl, even though part of that is driving where there is a school and lots of houses. Before you get to the Bwl there's a stretch of about a mile where there are no houses at all. All 40mph, though used to be 50.

Then it's 20 through the Bwl, including through some sections that are far less residential than the 40mph a few miles before. It's a little narrow going through Old Ynysybwl and few manage much more than 20mph anyway, then you're out in the country. Still 20mph for about half a mile where there are only a couple of houses. Why 20 there and 40 earlier on. Then, finally, national speed limit applies. Laughably this is on a windy, steep road where anyone able to reach 60 is likely to be killed.

Then it is back to 20 as we approach Perthcelyn. Then left and there's about a mile of downhill road, with glorious views of the Cynon Valley, nothing about, still 20mph. Why? It's still 20mph through Miskin and a thousand speed humps, until we reach Fernhill. Now goes back to 40mph going past the train station and where pedestrians cross often. Is that a safer bit of road than the one going down from Perthcelyn? Of course not.

Lastly it's 20 all the way to Aberdare through Aberaman, though the local industrial estate is 30 and where there are frequent bumps from impatient drivers trying to turn onto what is a busy road.

It's all totally illogical and I get why drivers are pissed off. There are plenty of 20s where there is absolutely no need and where there is no history of accidents. That's the problem.

I'd expect the scenic route to consist of slower roads. If someone wants to get from Ponty to Aberdare quicker use the bypasses.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

I'd expect the scenic route to consist of slower roads. If someone wants to get from Ponty to Aberdare quicker use the bypasses.

Absolutely, but that wasn't my point at all. You seem to have ignored that. My point is that there are sections of road that are now 20mph that are safer than some 30 or 40mph sections. It's daft.

[North Cardiff Blue]

No I think the 20 mph policy is utter bollocks

It's pointless

[North Cardiff Blue]

all the evidence from other schemes suggests that the 20mph speed limit will save about 10 lives a year and probably hundreds of serious injuries, countless more bumps in traffic where nobody was injured.

is that not worth adding a minute to your commute?

Made up nonsense after the event to try and justify the pointless change, you know it really give up the pretense.

It's a show of power and an attempt for attention, the same as five mile limits and we will lock our country down while the rest of the World is open.

There are real issues, like the failing Welsh NHS, and the care system, the money could have been used to improve Welsh services instead it was wasted pissing 90% of Welsh drivers off.

[North Cardiff Blue]

No protest about the 2000 potential job at Tata Bridgend.
Sad

Sad news but affects 2,000 families, the speed change affects maybe three million motorists.

[tomcat]

I have no idea how many people in Wales benefit from free prescriptions.

Probably in this cost of living crisis id say it helps many thousands.

Id love to know how much money a year is spent on Welsh billionaires prescriptions.

My wife works as a procurement manager in the NHS and I can tell you that charging for prescriptions, with the added cost of processing those payments. is equivalent to offering them free.

[North Cardiff Blue]

Thirty years ago I was driving towards Blackwood High Street on Bridge street, travelling from the direction of the rugby club. This road is used as a shortcut between Blackwood and Oakdale or Pontllanfraith. This street has cars parked on either side of the street and was a 30mph road.

As I was driving I was aware of the possibility of a pedestrian walking from between the cars and reduced my speed to less than 15mph. Halfway up the street a small child, aged about 5 or 6 years old, stepped out from a gap between two parked cars. When the child was between the cars he was not observable from my position, but when he stepped out he was less than than 6 metres in front of me. I was able to react and apply the brakes but was still moving when I struck him. Fortunately was speed was very low at impact and the child was knocked to the floor but immediately got up and ran away.

There were people around at the time and they were able to give me his address. I went to his home and informed his mother of the events. She was not particularly concerned and appeared to be more interested in having drinks with her mates.

I went to the police station and reported the incident. I did this as otherwise it would have been classed as a hit and run. They took my statement, breathalysed me and checked my driving and car documents.

If I had been driving at the legal speed limit of 30 mph I would not have been able to react or reduce my speed effectively. This would have killed that child and I would had to carry that burden for the rest of my life. Fortunately I had the awareness of the danger at the time and adjusted my driving to match the conditions, many other drivers would had not done so. The 20mph limit gives the driver more reaction time and a shorter stopping distance. I would rather be a few late than carry the responsibility of someone's death or serious injury.

I don't know what the point is?

You were driving too fast in the wrong place and hit a kid, so everyone else should have to drive at 20mph in roads safe for 40mph because of that?

I don't need Drakeford's law to know to drive at a snails pace past schools and double cars, it's happened a few times that kids step out and I stop well before hitting them.

[North Cardiff Blue]

I can only reiterate what I’ve previously written. When they changed the limits to 30kmh where I lived in Poland, the result introduced more danger, with people overtaking slower traffic. It only improved when speed bumps were introduced.

And there you have it actual evidence from someone who has experienced it!

I've said it all along, Drakefords Law apologises (2 left I think) just try to deny it.

[North Cardiff Blue]

My wife works as a procurement manager in the NHS and I can tell you that charging for prescriptions, with the added cost of processing those payments. is equivalent to offering them free.

Why does England charge then? For fun?

Labour in Westminster haven't said they will do it?

[dml1954]

I hope he jumps before he's pushed

But as bad as he is we won't let the blue filth in xx

So you will vote for him and his party, no matter what he does. That is a clear case of Lemming syndrome. What would he have to do before you wavered in your unflinching support ?

[dml1954]

all the evidence from other schemes suggests that the 20mph speed limit will save about 10 lives a year and probably hundreds of serious injuries, countless more bumps in traffic where nobody was injured.

is that not worth adding a minute to your commute?

No because it isn't the speed limit that is the problem, it is the stupidity and recklessness of the drivers and those people will still drive the same, whatever the speed limit is. You can still kill someone driving at 10mph.

[the other bob wilson]

So you will vote for him and his party, no matter what he does. That is a clear case of Lemming syndrome. What would he have to do before you wavered in your unflinching support ?

Takes one to know one I suppose.

[caerkid]

And there you have it actual evidence from someone who has experienced it!

I've said it all along, Drakefords Law apologises (2 left I think) just try to deny it.

From a quick Google though road safety in Poland has increased significantly in recent years due to the measures they have taken (this was from being one of the worst countries in the world for road safety mind) :

https://notesfrompoland.com/2023/01/...peeding-fines/

https://etsc.eu/poland-wins-internat...-in-ten-years/

This surely suggests that we should also introduce more speed bumps and speeding fine enforcement too ,rather than scrapping a road safety scheme ?

[tomcat]

Why does England charge then? For fun?

Labour in Westminster haven't said they will do it?

She has explained the figures and it's correct. You really are an argumentative person though, totally uncalled for too.

[PontBlue]

Absolutely, but that wasn't my point at all. You seem to have ignored that. My point is that there are sections of road that are now 20mph that are safer than some 30 or 40mph sections. It's daft.

If you think some 30mph and 40mph zones need to be reassessed and made slower you can always petition RCT.

The national speed limit on country lanes has always been stupid as most are not safe if you were to drive them at 60mph (and only idiots would)

[xsnaggle]

My wife works as a procurement manager in the NHS and I can tell you that charging for prescriptions, with the added cost of processing those payments. is equivalent to offering them free.

I have a friend who is a pharmacist. He told me everyone in Wales gets free subscriptions because it was demmed to be cheaper that trying to sort out who was entitled and who wasn't and that checking to catch false claimants. So just a money saving exercise. Pity they didn't use the same criterion when spending £32 million on new road signs.

[Rjk]

Made up nonsense after the event to try and justify the pointless change, you know it really give up the pretense.

It's a show of power and an attempt for attention, the same as five mile limits and we will lock our country down while the rest of the World is open.

There are real issues, like the failing Welsh NHS, and the care system, the money could have been used to improve Welsh services instead it was wasted pissing 90% of Welsh drivers off.

so if in a year's time the number of people dying on the roads has dropped by something like 10 people, will you admit you are wrong?

[Rjk]

I have a friend who is a pharmacist. He told me everyone in Wales gets free subscriptions because it was demmed to be cheaper that trying to sort out who was entitled and who wasn't and that checking to catch false claimants. So just a money saving exercise. Pity they didn't use the same criterion when spending £32 million on new road signs.

the £32 million on road signs is estimated to save 90odd million in NHS expenditure

[Rjk]

No because it isn't the speed limit that is the problem, it is the stupidity and recklessness of the drivers and those people will still drive the same, whatever the speed limit is. You can still kill someone driving at 10mph.

well let's see in a year's time

[Tuerto]

No because it isn't the speed limit that is the problem, it is the stupidity and recklessness of the drivers and those people will still drive the same, whatever the speed limit is. You can still kill someone driving at 10mph.

On that basis, we're ****ed then, with everything. Lets not regulate because there will always be people who will ignore those regulations.