40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

[Gofer Blue]

There will be Gaza fatigue - the news coming out is just more and more of the same. The shock value has gone, although hopefully the anger hasn't died down. There has also been a Christmas - New Year pause in most of the international protests. There have been constant local events in Europe and the USA (Jewish led bridge blockades in support of Palestine in several US cities in the past few days) with a co-ordinated UK Day Of Action on Saturday and the next big London demonstration on 13 January.

The latest Gaza death toll is close to 21,500 with nearly 60,000 injured and 7,500 missing (buried under rubble!). 85% of Gazans are displaced and homeless. Disease is rife. Food, clean water and electricity are scarce and famine is starting to show in some pockets. The aid trucks are trickling in but contain only a fraction of what is needed. Civilians continue to be maimed, dismembered, burnt and crushed on an hourly basis under IDF bombs and shells. Settlers are still killing and vandalising in the West Bank with IDF support, and the UN is producing reports that reference claims Israel has carried out murders and torture of prisoners.

Netanyahu is giving Biden the finger and settling in for the 'long genocide' in an attempt to stave off his fall from power and probable criminal conviction. Israel is fast losing the international struggle for hearts and minds - and seems not to care. 'Normalisation' of relations has ended. The Israeli public still seem to be behind Netanyahu - but that is fracturing. There is little or no enthusiasm amongst Palestinians for Abbas and the Fatah old guard (who are Biden's preferred Palestinain leadership) and although Hamas has gained support (in anger and desperation) there is still scope for a new, dynamic, secular Palestinian leadership to emerge. But Israel would have to let them out of prison (mostly administratively detained without charge) for that to become possible.

The mind boggles as to how this is all going to end with more and more people being squeezed into an ever decreasing land area. I do wonder if we might see a mass stampede of desperate people breaking out into Egypt through the border crossing. What would the Egyptians do if such an event occurred? Could such a scenario actually suit Israel?

[Heathblue]

There will be Gaza fatigue - the news coming out is just more and more of the same. The shock value has gone, although hopefully the anger hasn't died down. There has also been a Christmas - New Year pause in most of the international protests. There have been constant local events in Europe and the USA (Jewish led bridge blockades in support of Palestine in several US cities in the past few days) with a co-ordinated UK Day Of Action on Saturday and the next big London demonstration on 13 January.

The latest Gaza death toll is close to 21,500 with nearly 60,000 injured and 7,500 missing (buried under rubble!). 85% of Gazans are displaced and homeless. Disease is rife. Food, clean water and electricity are scarce and famine is starting to show in some pockets. The aid trucks are trickling in but contain only a fraction of what is needed. Civilians continue to be maimed, dismembered, burnt and crushed on an hourly basis under IDF bombs and shells. Settlers are still killing and vandalising in the West Bank with IDF support, and the UN is producing reports that reference claims Israel has carried out murders and torture of prisoners.

Netanyahu is giving Biden the finger and settling in for the 'long genocide' in an attempt to stave off his fall from power and probable criminal conviction. Israel is fast losing the international struggle for hearts and minds - and seems not to care. 'Normalisation' of relations has ended. The Israeli public still seem to be behind Netanyahu - but that is fracturing. There is little or no enthusiasm amongst Palestinians for Abbas and the Fatah old guard (who are Biden's preferred Palestinain leadership) and although Hamas has gained support (in anger and desperation) there is still scope for a new, dynamic, secular Palestinian leadership to emerge. But Israel would have to let them out of prison (mostly administratively detained without charge) for that to become possible.

IMO, I believe that 99.999999999999% of any particular race are just good people, we are in a time unfortunately where we have the rotten one, BN is IMO, just pure evil, and the whole goings on there too complicated to draw the definitive conclusion, however i find the current situation quite disturbing. The imagery online far too horrific to post, the bad is not all one sided however, and I would expect a so called legitimate (sic) government to handle this more humanely. I'm not even sure that the change of US president in 2024 would solve this, believing that the incumbent president would achieve anything different to the current resident, his MAGA supporters would disagree pointing to the abraham accords.

The Q drops said
"We are saving Israel for last"

My drops say
"You should have started with Israel 1st"

[truthpaste]

IMO, I believe that 99.999999999999% of any particular race are just good people, we are in a time unfortunately where we have the rotten one, BN is IMO, just pure evil, and the whole goings on there too complicated to draw the definitive conclusion, however i find the current situation quite disturbing. The imagery online far too horrific to post, the bad is not all one sided however, and I would expect a so called legitimate (sic) government to handle this more humanely. I'm not even sure that the change of US president in 2024 would solve this, believing that the incumbent president would achieve anything different to the current resident, his MAGA supporters would disagree pointing to the abraham accords.

The Q drops said
"We are saving Israel for last"

My drops say
"You should have started with Israel 1st"

And no mention of Iran, but have no doubt that they have their finger on the trigger, are more than waiting in the shadows and will attempt to make your desired end game a reality; and of course they are comparatively seen as another wholesome nation that has no time or connection to Israel apart demanding their removal from the map.
This aim is currently fine and acceptable for any nation that isn't initially attacked by Israel according to the majority.

And your "I believe that 99.999999999999% of any particular race are just good people" is an interesting take on the word 'good' - would anyone in their right mind leave their house keys with over 99% of their neighbours while they headed off on holiday?

[jon1959]

And no mention of Iran, but have no doubt that they have their finger on the trigger, are more than waiting in the shadows and will attempt to make your desired end game a reality; and of course they are comparatively seen as another wholesome nation that has no time or connection to Israel apart demanding their removal from the map.
This aim is currently fine and acceptable for any nation that isn't initially attacked by Israel according to the majority.

And your "I believe that 99.999999999999% of any particular race are just good people" is an interesting take on the word 'good' - would anyone in their right mind leave their house keys with over 99% of their neighbours while they headed off on holiday?

I don't think many - on this board, in the UK, in Europe or the world - see Iran as 'another wholesome nation'.

It is a repressive, theological state - guilty over the years of many acts of internal state violence. It is deeply conservative and cruel to ethnic and sexual minorities and treats women as property. It is not alone in that.

But Iran has been subjected to decades of international sanctions and the routine murder of its leading politicians and scientists by the USA or Israel.

It doesn't have US diplomatic cover or automatic vetos of any Security Council resolutions that try to hold them to account and to international law (unlike Israel). It doesn't receive vast annual financial subsidies and arms supplies from the world's superpower (unlike Israel). It doesn't have a network of incredibly effective lobbying organisations working on its behalf across the globe, but especially in North America and Europe (unlike Israel). It doesn't have major parliamentary support groups centred on the two main UK political parties - tied to the embassy (unlike Israel).

Neither Iran nor Israel (or many others) are 'wholesome nations'. But one is treated as unwholesome. The other is given a free pass and a blank cheque!

[Heathblue]

And no mention of Iran, but have no doubt that they have their finger on the trigger, are more than waiting in the shadows and will attempt to make your desired end game a reality; and of course they are comparatively seen as another wholesome nation that has no time or connection to Israel apart demanding their removal from the map.
This aim is currently fine and acceptable for any nation that isn't initially attacked by Israel according to the majority.

And your "I believe that 99.999999999999% of any particular race are just good people" is an interesting take on the word 'good' - would anyone in their right mind leave their house keys with over 99% of their neighbours while they headed off on holiday?

I have neighbours who hold a set of keys to our home permantly, as we have keys for another neighbour, i don't live in a massive street, maybe about 12 houses each side and to answer your question Yes i would leave our keys with 99.999% of my neighbours for a holiday period. I have lived in my current house for 31 years, there is one other couple who have been in this street longer than myself and Doris, I have fallen out with 1 neighbour during this time and was only for a short period. Just because I'll not acquiesce and say the right things to the bully crew on here, doesn't reflect how I interact with people in the real world.

[jon1959]

I have neighbours who hold a set of keys to our home permantly, as we have keys for another neighbour, i don't live in a massive street, maybe about 12 houses each side and to answer your question Yes i would leave our keys with 99.999% of my neighbours for a holiday period.

Same with us (although a bigger street).

[stevo]

It is deeply conservative and cruel to…. …sexual minorities

I suspect Truthpaste won’t bat an eyelid over this based on previous conversations with him about gays.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

I don't think many - on this board, in the UK, in Europe or the world - see Iran as 'another wholesome nation'.

It is a repressive, theological state - guilty over the years of many acts of internal state violence. It is deeply conservative and cruel to ethnic and sexual minorities and treats women as property. It is not alone in that.

But Iran has been subjected to decades of international sanctions and the routine murder of its leading politicians and scientists by the USA or Israel.

It doesn't have US diplomatic cover or automatic vetos of any Security Council resolutions that try to hold them to account and to international law (unlike Israel). It doesn't receive vast annual financial subsidies and arms supplies from the world's superpower (unlike Israel). It doesn't have a network of incredibly effective lobbying organisations working on its behalf across the globe, but especially in North America and Europe (unlike Israel). It doesn't have major parliamentary support groups centred on the two main UK political parties - tied to the embassy (unlike Israel).

Neither Iran nor Israel (or many others) are 'wholesome nations'. But one is treated as unwholesome. The other is given a free pass and a blank cheque!

Great response, jon1959. Truthpaste is revealing his incredible ignorance once again.

[truthpaste]

Great response, jon1959. Truthpaste is revealing his incredible ignorance once again.

I guess you thought it was safe to venture out of your bottle after your last aborted attack when you accused me of fabricating a quote from someone. As it is with all such individuals, you had nothing so resorted to invention.

And more recently, I didn't say Iran was wholesome as a nation, I actually said "they are comparatively seen as another wholesome nation", which is how most nations are classified after Israel reacts to any unprovoked attack.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

I guess you thought it was safe to venture out of your bottle after your last aborted attack when you accused me of fabricating a quote from someone. As it is with all such individuals, you had nothing so resorted to invention.

And more recently, I didn't say Iran was wholesome as a nation, I actually said "they are comparatively seen as another wholesome nation", which is how most nations are classified after Israel reacts to any unprovoked attack.

Comparatively wholesome. Yeah, great one. An idiotic comment.

[truthpaste]

Comparatively wholesome. Yeah, great one. An idiotic comment.

Unfortunately beyond your grasp on this occasion; however properly reading the comment you are addressing will help if you've actually got something to add to the discussion. Here's hoping for some of that in 2024

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Unfortunately beyond your grasp on this occasion; however properly reading the comment you are addressing will help if you've actually got something to add to the discussion. Here's hoping for some of that in 2024

I'll add something when it includes a certain amount of logic and sense. You should try it sometime.

[truthpaste]

I'll add something when it includes a certain amount of logic and sense. You should try it sometime.

Let's try this again. Palastine and Iran have leaders who want the same nation to be exterminated. That aim is not exclusive to those two nations.

Can you think of any other nation to be targeted by multiple countries in the context that they want every individual in that country to be killed and nationals living outside that country to be killed too?

War is never pretty from any angle, so in the context that Palestine created a 9/11 moment to start this conflict, and are one of many nations seeking to make Israel only a part of history, the forceful reaction from Israel is understandable.
That doesn't mean I think it's desirable at all, but if you or I had family living in Israel near to the boarder, wouldn't you want them to live with greater security than was the case on October 7th?

[stevo]

but if you or I had family living in Israel near to the boarder, wouldn't you want them to live with greater security than was the case on October 7th?

Not at the expense of thousands of innocent Palestinian lives, no.

[jeepster]

Let's try this again. Palastine and Iran have leaders who want the same nation to be exterminated. That aim is not exclusive to those two nations.

Can you think of any other nation to be targeted by multiple countries in the context that they want every individual in that country to be killed and nationals living outside that country to be killed too?

War is never pretty from any angle, so in the context that Palestine created a 9/11 moment to start this conflict, and are one of many nations seeking to make Israel only a part of history, the forceful reaction from Israel is understandable.
That doesn't mean I think it's desirable at all, but if you or I had family living in Israel near to the boarder, wouldn't you want them to live with greater security than was the case on October 7th?

What about the Isreali ilegal setterlers who attack Palastinians and npothing gets done,
Burn their homes and destroy their crops.

[truthpaste]

Let's try this again. Palastine and Iran have leaders who want the same nation to be exterminated. That aim is not exclusive to those two nations.

Can you think of any other nation to be targeted by multiple countries in the context that they want every individual in that country to be killed and nationals living outside that country to be killed too?

I couldn't either.

[stevo]

What’s your point Truthpaste?

[life on mars]

I don't think many - on this board, in the UK, in Europe or the world - see Iran as 'another wholesome nation'.

It is a repressive, theological state - guilty over the years of many acts of internal state violence. It is deeply conservative and cruel to ethnic and sexual minorities and treats women as property. It is not alone in that.

But Iran has been subjected to decades of international sanctions and the routine murder of its leading politicians and scientists by the USA or Israel.

It doesn't have US diplomatic cover or automatic vetos of any Security Council resolutions that try to hold them to account and to international law (unlike Israel). It doesn't receive vast annual financial subsidies and arms supplies from the world's superpower (unlike Israel). It doesn't have a network of incredibly effective lobbying organisations working on its behalf across the globe, but especially in North America and Europe (unlike Israel). It doesn't have major parliamentary support groups centred on the two main UK political parties - tied to the embassy (unlike Israel).

Neither Iran nor Israel (or many others) are 'wholesome nations'. But one is treated as unwholesome. The other is given a free pass and a blank cheque!

Israel does not crush its own peoples democratic rights , allows aprropiate elections , doesnt supress female freedoms,

Israel is well ahead of the region and known as the gay capital of the Middle East.

Israel dont terrorise, kill bomb western soceties.

Females have a voice in Isreal .

Thats the obvous difference

They are not perfect , who is .

Iran , Syria are barbaric societies , as are Hamas Hezballah they who dont give a flying feck for peace and use Western money and sympathies to further thier killing . They'd happliy murder us in our beds if they could .

That is the difference , Israel doesnt have a free cheque it has better human standards than those around them ..

[jon1959]

Israel does not crush its own peoples democratic rights , allows aprropiate elections , doesnt supress female freedoms,

Israel is well ahead of the region and known as the gay capital of the Middle East.

Israel dont terrorise, kill bomb western soceties.

Females have a voice in Isreal .

Thats the obvous difference

They are not perfect , who is .

Iran , Syria are barbaric societies , as are Hamas Hezballah they who dont give a flying feck for peace and use Western money and sympathies to further thier killing . They'd happliy murder us in our beds if they could .

That is the difference , Israel doesnt have a free cheque it has better human standards than those around them ..

Non Jewish citizens of Israel do not have the same rights as Jewish citizens.

Your concern for the rights of women (and gay people) is laudable - although again you realise that Arab citizens of Israel and especially the occupied territories do not share equal rights with Jewish Israelis who have some form of liberal democracy to enjoy.

I do choke on your championing of womens' rights though after your history of misogynistic posts on here - are you still victim blaming the teenage girls who were prey to Jeffrey Epstein and Andrew Windsor?

But the real beauty is 'Israel dont terrorise, kill bomb western soceties'. In seven brief words you say everything. How you can spew that after 3 months of IDF mass murder in Gaza is astonishing. Palestine is not a western society true - but is your racism that deeply engrained?

[Dorcus]

Non Jewish citizens of Israel do not have the same rights as Jewish citizens.

Your concern for the rights of women (and gay people) is laudable - although again you realise that Arab citizens of Israel and especially the occupied territories do not share equal rights with Jewish Israelis who have some form of liberal democracy to enjoy.

I do choke on your championing of womens' rights though after your history of misogynistic posts on here - are you still victim blaming the teenage girls who were prey to Jeffrey Epstein and Andrew Windsor?

But the real beauty is 'Israel dont terrorise, kill bomb western soceties'. In seven brief words you say everything. How you can spew that after 3 months of IDF mass murder in Gaza is astonishing. Palestine is not a western society true - but is your racism that deeply engrained?

He's Jewish, it's tribal and he's extremely biased. Sadly exactly the same can be said for the USA and it's minions like UK etc.

[jon1959]

An interesting, informed, sober and balanced assessment from Peter Hain on the way out of the catastrophe in Gaza:

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...s-palestinians

That is what we need, but won't get, from Starmer (and Sunak and Biden and von der Leyen).

[jon1959]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...nocide-in-gaza

A group of prominent Israelis has accused the country’s judicial authorities of ignoring “extensive and blatant” incitement to genocide and ethnic cleansing in Gaza by influential public figures.

In a letter to the attorney general and state prosecutors, they demand action to stop the normalisation of language that breaks both Israeli and international law.

“For the first time that we can remember, the explicit calls to commit atrocious crimes, as stated, against millions of civilians have turned into a legitimate and regular part of Israeli discourse,” they write. “Today, calls of these types are an everyday matter in Israel.”

[Heathblue]

Don't avoid but don't say too much regarding this Topic, it's always been a he said she said scenario, however the events of recent months has been extra awful if it's possible!!! and so for picking a lane with this one I'm not going there, there are so many conflicting stories from biblical days as to who belongs where for me it's just not possible to determine, the creation of the current state of Israel is not in doubt IMO that it's an illegal state. To change gears slightly, it's no secret I've been and admirer of Simple Minds since the the Ahoy gig surfaced on channel fours the tube back in 1985, back then i was a keen guitarist and could play a bit with my role models being Richie Blackmore, Tony Iommi and Jimmy Page Simple Minds brought to the table Charlie Burchill and by his own admission a technically shit guitarist, take it from someone who has seen SM live circa 30 times and one of the guaranteed things at a gig is a major Charlie Burchill f/up during one of his limited solos, however, that hasn't stopped me believing that Charlie is one of the finest AXE of my generation, this song demonstrates his ability to pick the right notes and tone for the occasion, the bending, tremolo arm and combined Wah makes the soul cry out especially at 5.10 and beyond, you can feel the pain coupled with the line "little children crying out" if i could dedicate a song to the children of Palestine & Israel then this would be it.
Whilst I'll not pick a lane, I don't think there is much doubt that the evil ****ers who run this world allowed this to happen.

[truthpaste]

Don't avoid but don't say too much regarding this Topic, it's always been a he said she said scenario, however the events of recent months has been extra awful if it's possible!!! and so for picking a lane with this one I'm not going there, there are so many conflicting stories from biblical days as to who belongs where for me it's just not possible to determine, the creation of the current state of Israel is not in doubt IMO that it's an illegal state. To change gears slightly, it's no secret I've been and admirer of Simple Minds since the the Ahoy gig surfaced on channel fours the tube back in 1985, back then i was a keen guitarist and could play a bit with my role models being Richie Blackmore, Tony Iommi and Jimmy Page Simple Minds brought to the table Charlie Burchill and by his own admission a technically shit guitarist, take it from someone who has seen SM live circa 30 times and one of the guaranteed things at a gig is a major Charlie Burchill f/up during one of his limited solos, however, that hasn't stopped me believing that Charlie is one of the finest AXE of my generation, this song demonstrates his ability to pick the right notes and tone for the occasion, the bending, tremolo arm and combined Wah makes the soul cry out especially at 5.10 and beyond, you can feel the pain coupled with the line "little children crying out" if i could dedicate a song to the children of Palestine & Israel then this would be it.
Whilst I'll not pick a lane, I don't think there is much doubt that the evil ****ers who run this world allowed this to happen.

So what is your technical objection to the 1947 resolution? Namely Resolution 181.

[TWGL1]

Last night Robert Peston asked Keir Starmer if an Israeli soldier shooting a Palestinian man in cold blood while he carried a white flag was a war crime. Starmer said it would be unwise to say.

Its never unwise when he's asked if Russia is committing war crimes, though.

https://x.com/saulstaniforth/status/...LhmySD2aRt-GNg