Kier Thatcher

[Eric the Half a Bee]

They're trying that trick now with Cleverly's announcements on immigration reform yesterday, but i personally believe trust has been lost. The damage is done, they've failed to reduce immigration too many times

A few years ago the Tories announced they were going to be tough on tax evasion and hoarding wealth overseas. Any news on that?

[NinianOpinion1927]

A few years ago the Tories announced they were going to be tough on tax evasion and hoarding wealth overseas. Any news on that?

Both parties lie to gain or keep power. I'm not a raving Tory by any means. This lot are terrible as is Starmer and that disingenuous liar Yvette Cooper.
I'm coming to the conclusion that we need voting reform for fresh political parties to make a break through.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Both parties lie to gain or keep power. I'm not a raving Tory by any means. This lot are terrible as is Starmer and that disingenuous liar Yvette Cooper.
I'm coming to the conclusion that we need voting reform for fresh political parties to make a break through.

I couldn't agree more. The current system is a total disaster. It's one or the other. Left or right. And since Brexit, if you're not on one side, you have to be on the other.

[NinianOpinion1927]

I couldn't agree more. The current system is a total disaster. It's one or the other. Left or right. And since Brexit, if you're not on one side, you have to be on the other.

Glad we can agree on something Eric

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Reform ?

They are a bunch of right wing flag wavers , they are the refuge of idiots like John Redwood and other tossers

Proportional representation would generally lead to a Labour Liberal coalition with input from the rainbow parties

I would be happy with that

The Tories and Reform and the right wing clowns can stay outside in the cold

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Conservative austerity is required to cut the fat/waste from socialist over spending, which inevitably happens in the end under Labour. It's cyclical. Look at the 1970s then 00s
I do agree about communities being decimated with what i've seen described as "runaway individualism" and i see it as bad. the blame for that can be levelled at Thatcher's neo liberal economic reforms in the 1980s. How can this can be reversed?

I don't agree with your claim that people welcòmed outsiders more in the past. People have never welcomed outsiders, that's just not true. We are wired to protect and favour our own genetic interests (the in group). You can't have social cohesion and be welcoming to outsiders. Diversity undermines social cohesion and studies prove this.
The left get in a mess over this.

Oh christ here comes the multiculturalism has failed speech

[NinianOpinion1927]

Reform ?

They are a bunch of right wing flag wavers , they are the refuge of idiots like John Redwood and other tossers

Proportional representation would generally lead to a Labour Liberal coalition with input from the rainbow parties

I would be happy with that

The Tories and Reform and the right wing clowns can stay outside in the cold

Half the lib dems are Tory lite mind.
I'm not afraid of PR at all. Not sure it would pan out as you think, especially after things settle down in a few terms.
I've heard it suggested that Farage may make PR his next political mission and he's a very effective campaigner

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Conservative austerity is required to cut the fat/waste from socialist over spending, which inevitably happens in the end under Labour.

At the end of the last Labour government the Conservatives backed all of Labour's spending plans. If anything, there was disapproval that Labour weren't spending more after the banking crisis to stimulate the economy. Then they changed their tune and went with austerity.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Half the lib dems are Tory lite mind.
I'm not afraid of PR at all. Not sure it would pan out as you think, especially after things settle down in a few terms.
I've heard it suggested that Farage may make PR his next political mission and he's a very effective campaigner

The sooner Farage has a bullet in him the better. He's a racist buffoon who has no interest in working people.

[NinianOpinion1927]

At the end of the last Labour government the Conservatives backed all of Labour's spending plans. If anything, there was disapproval that Labour weren't spending more after the banking crisis to stimulate the economy. Then they changed their tune and went with austerity.

I found Labour's spending plans too risky in 2010 and in the end so did the Conservatives. Borrowing to grow the economy after the financial crisis was too risky, imagine if it didn't work. We'd have been a REAL basket case and probably required even deeper spending cuts, for far longer. It probably would've been done by the IMF bean counters with little regard for many people on the breadline.

If Farage does campaign for PR it could happen in our lifetime. He's a very effective politcian. I've been watching him in the jungle and he has suggested himself as a future leader of the Conservatives, so who knows. If Sunak Loses next year, Farage may be his sucessor. Then we will see a real Conservative government, maybe the couintry needs it.

[NinianOpinion1927]

The sooner Farage has a bullet in him the better. He's a racist buffoon who has no interest in working people.

Mad talk Eric

[Eric the Half a Bee]

I found Labour's spending plans too risky in 2010 and in the end so did the Conservatives. Borrowing to grow the economy after the financial crisis was too risky, imagine if it didn't work. We'd have been a REAL basket case and probably required even deeper spending cuts, for far longer. It probably would've been done by the IMF bean counters with little regard for many people on the breadline.

If Farage does campaign for PR it could happen in our lifetime. He's a very effective politcian. I've been watching him in the jungle and he has suggested himself as a future leader of the Conservatives, so who knows. If Sunak Loses next year, Farage may be his sucessor. Then we will see a real Conservative government, maybe the couintry needs it.

Ok, then I'll ask one thing.

Explain to me how working class people, public sector workers, councils, the unemployed and those reliant on benefits etc would be better off and that public services would improve if we had (in your words) a "real Conservative government". I really don't give a shit about how the Tories will make the most well off even more well off.

[the other bob wilson]

Why didn't Labour re regulate after 1997? Didn't G ordon Brown egg everybody in the City on, by repeatedly claiming to have ended "boom and bust"

So, you think deregulation of rules for bankers and capitalism are socialist policies?

[NinianOpinion1927]

So, you think deregulation of rules for bankers and capitalism are socialist policies?

Capitalism is intertwined into socialism, if you want to eradicate Capitalism completely then you're hardleft and probably a communist.
If you don't think Brown was a socialist(i do). Can you name a country where the socialism you laud has succeeded for any length of time? And before you say Sweden, it's now the gun crime capital of Europe with voters shifting to the right over recent decades as a reaction to failed socialist policies.

[WJ99mobile]

The sooner Farage has a bullet in him the better. He's a racist buffoon who has no interest in working people.

I’m not sure how you can say either sentence.

[WJ99mobile]

I couldn't care less if the labour party have to form a coalition with the liberals , independents and greens and whoever else

Get the Tories out

I would and would make me consider the Tories instead

[WJ99mobile]

Why does this country need Tory anything? I keep on hearing socialism’s failed and maybe it has, but it’s capitalism and deregulation that is responsible for what’s gone wrong since 2008.

I think the most important thing is the economy (Tory mantra)

Everything else falls in behind

[the other bob wilson]

Capitalism is intertwined into socialism, if you want to eradicate Capitalism completely then you're hardleft and probably a communist.
If you don't think Brown was a socialist(i do). Can you name a country where the socialism you laud has succeeded for any length of time? And before you say Sweden, it's now the gun crime capital of Europe with voters shifting to the right over recent decades as a reaction to failed socialist policies.

No' let's stick to what I said, not go off on a tangent because you can't or won't answer my question. I was confused by a message of yours which appeared to suggest that the 2008 crash was down to Labour following socialist policies like capitalism and de regulation of banks. The policies which helped cause 2008 were nothing to do with socialism - a Labour Government continued to follow policies pursued by the previous Conservative Government (in fact they went further than the Tories when it came to deregulation) and we paid the price because of greedy bankers given powers by the politicians of all sides throughout the west.

The idea that the Tories had to come in in 2010 to sort the economy out because of Labour's left wing policies is ludicrous as they were in full support of all of the measures taken by Labour in 2008 to try and deal with the crisis. If Labour in 2008 is to carry the can for what was a crisis of global finance, then the Conservatives will have to do the same for the whole of cost of living crisis for the last two years - I don't think that's entirely fair even if the this Government, under Truss, did directly bring on aspects of it with Kwarteng's farcical budget.

[the other bob wilson]

I think the most important thing is the economy (Tory mantra)

Everything else falls in behind

And I'd say the last thirteen and a half years should have shredded any Conservative claims to be the party of economic competence.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...ts-study-finds

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...b0cbfd55e42037

https://neweconomics.org/2021/02/soc...010-comparison

https://www.standardlife.co.uk/about...umer-behaviour

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44926447

[NinianOpinion1927]

No' let's stick to what I said, not go off on a tangent because you can't or won't answer my question. I was confused by a message of yours which appeared to suggest that the 2008 crash was down to Labour following socialist policies like capitalism and de regulation of banks. The policies which helped cause 2008 were nothing to do with socialism - a Labour Government continued to follow policies pursued by the previous Conservative Government (in fact they went further than the Tories when it came to deregulation) and we paid the price because of greedy bankers given powers by the politicians of all sides throughout the west.

The idea that the Tories had to come in in 2010 to sort the economy out because of Labour's left wing policies is ludicrous as they were in full support of all of the measures taken by Labour in 2008 to try and deal with the crisis. If Labour in 2008 is to carry the can for what was a crisis of global finance, then the Conservatives will have to do the same for the whole of cost of living crisis for the last two years - I don't think that's entirely fair even if the this Government, under Truss, did directly bring on aspects of it with Kwarteng's farcical budget.

You can't blame the Conservatives for what Labour didn't do in their tenure. They had the chance to regulate the banks but Gordon Brown did something far worse, he poured petrol on the banking fire by repeatedly claiming to have ended the boom n bust cycle. This gave the banks and general public encouragment to risk huge amounts building up debts with no regard to any future economic bust because our Labour chancelor kept reassuring everyone that an economic bust wasn't possible.
I do recall sone Conservatives at the time saying that ending the boom bust cycle was nonsense but Brown was in charge. That was his first contribution to making the global financial crisis worse for Britain. His second contribution was ripping up his own rules and borrowing more to spend on an ever increasing public sector. This is what Labour do and why Conservatives are needed cyclically to cut waste in a bloated public sector. That extra borrowing by Labour made the global crash harder for Britain to deal with when the time to borrow and bail out banks came. That was Labour's fault for not fixing the roof when the sun was shining.
Britain is now in a mess and economically strained due to 3 separate massive incidents. The financial crash, the pandemic with lockdowns, Ukraine war causing inflation to soar. This country is ìn a mess and i can't see how Labour would've dealt with the pandemic or Ukraine any better. Infact, Labour would have almost certainly spent more and locked down the economy harder. People generally say that Britain turns to the Conservatives in times requiring fiscal restraint then turns to Labour when feeling flush. Britain isn't geeling flush and won't be for a long time so it'll be interesting how this GE pans out. If Labour win they'll open the borders and build massively on the green belt to stimulate growth. For me that is irresponsible, bad for the environment and unforgivable. You didn't answer my question as to whether you're a communist or a socialist. If you're a socialist then you believe in capitalism to a degree

[Robin Friday's Ghost]

Sounds like 1997

Has Blair given Starmer his vote of confidence yet?

[NinianOpinion1927]

Has Blair given Starmer his vote of confidence yet?

I'm pretty sure he has, recently there was even talk of a Blair come back in some capacity. Maybe some country in the back of beyond needs bombing. Good ole Tony is that man who can

[Robin Friday's Ghost]

Well you have already jumped ship so move along

You are everything that's wrong with working class voters in this country. Demand nothing of Labour and consequently get nothing.

[the other bob wilson]

You can't blame the Conservatives for what Labour didn't do in their tenure. They had the chance to regulate the banks but Gordon Brown did something far worse, he poured petrol on the banking fire by repeatedly claiming to have ended the boom n bust cycle. This gave the banks and general public encouragment to risk huge amounts building up debts with no regard to any future economic bust because our Labour chancelor kept reassuring everyone that an economic bust wasn't possible.
I do recall sone Conservatives at the time saying that ending the boom bust cycle was nonsense but Brown was in charge. That was his first contribution to making the global financial crisis worse for Britain. His second contribution was ripping up his own rules and borrowing more to spend on an ever increasing public sector. This is what Labour do and why Conservatives are needed cyclically to cut waste in a bloated public sector. That extra borrowing by Labour made the global crash harder for Britain to deal with when the time to borrow and bail out banks came. That was Labour's fault for not fixing the roof when the sun was shining.
Britain is now in a mess and economically strained due to 3 separate massive incidents. The financial crash, the pandemic with lockdowns, Ukraine war causing inflation to soar. This country is ìn a mess and i can't see how Labour would've dealt with the pandemic or Ukraine any better. Infact, Labour would have almost certainly spent more and locked down the economy harder. People generally say that Britain turns to the Conservatives in times requiring fiscal restraint then turns to Labour when feeling flush. Britain isn't geeling flush and won't be for a long time so it'll be interesting how this GE pans out. If Labour win they'll open the borders and build massively on the green belt to stimulate growth. For me that is irresponsible, bad for the environment and unforgivable. You didn't answer my question as to whether you're a communist or a socialist. If you're a socialist then you believe in capitalism to a degree

Did you see those links I posted in another message showing how we're worse off now than we were in 2010? Studies dating before 2020 (before the three events you mention) show something similar.

I'd say I'm a socialist and I agree that there's a place for capitalism, but 2008 had far more to do with the politics of the right than the left. -

[Parti Mellow]

The 2008 crash was more to do with lending too much money out and not getting it paid back. We need a Party who will cut wastage and will reward hard work and entrepreneurism. Forget labelling, the new left wing has become the new right wing and visa versa. Reform for me, the Cons/Lab/Lib/SNP have all merged into one party.