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Thread: Police Surveillance

  1. #1

    Police Surveillance

    OK, so this post isn't directly football-related but I wanted more people to read it than the small number of conspiracy posters on the Alternative Forum - and in this case I believe that there is indeed something to be concerned about regarding Police surveillance.

    Leaving Cardiff Central yesterday, I saw a clutch of several hundred demonstrators protesting about the situation in Palestine. The protestors were on the paved area outside the station but about 30 to 40 yards away from where passengers would spill out from the station entrance (which was closed off probably due to the demonstration and were were all herded to the rear exit on arrival).

    I walked past the demonstration and decided to observe it from about 15 to 20 metres away and in an area where no-one was standing. I was clearly not actively involved in the stationary demo. To my left and about 10 years away was a policeman filming the demo, with the camera being pointed in the same way as I was looking.
    He suddenly caught sight of me observing him out of the corner of his eye and turned the camera 90 degrees to his right and was obviously filming me.

    I'm someone who isn't anti-Police and law-abiding but I considered his actions to be intrusive, invasive and the actions of a Police State.

    I approached him and asked him assertively as to why he was filming me and he just kept saying, sneeringly, that he was entitled to do so - whereupon a very tall policeman stood directly in front of me as a buffer.

    For my part, I think it's akin to Putin's Russia and have made a formal complaint to the Police, not that it will do a lot of good.

  2. #2
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    Re: Police Surveillance

    Embrace your World

  3. #3

    Re: Police Surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie View Post
    OK, so this post isn't directly football-related but I wanted more people to read it than the small number of conspiracy posters on the Alternative Forum - and in this case I believe that there is indeed something to be concerned about regarding Police surveillance.

    Leaving Cardiff Central yesterday, I saw a clutch of several hundred demonstrators protesting about the situation in Palestine. The protestors were on the paved area outside the station but about 30 to 40 yards away from where passengers would spill out from the station entrance (which was closed off probably due to the demonstration and were were all herded to the rear exit on arrival).

    I walked past the demonstration and decided to observe it from about 15 to 20 metres away and in an area where no-one was standing. I was clearly not actively involved in the stationary demo. To my left and about 10 years away was a policeman filming the demo, with the camera being pointed in the same way as I was looking.
    He suddenly caught sight of me observing him out of the corner of his eye and turned the camera 90 degrees to his right and was obviously filming me.

    I'm someone who isn't anti-Police and law-abiding but I considered his actions to be intrusive, invasive and the actions of a Police State.

    I approached him and asked him assertively as to why he was filming me and he just kept saying, sneeringly, that he was entitled to do so - whereupon a very tall policeman stood directly in front of me as a buffer.

    For my part, I think it's akin to Putin's Russia and have made a formal complaint to the Police, not that it will do a lot of good.
    All very standard stuff these days with demonstrations and here are some facts regarding CCTV cameras in the UK

    Research by Clarion Security Systems estimates that there are over 7,371,903 CCTV cameras in the UK, meaning there is 1 CCTV camera for every 11 people in the UK. You are likely to be captured on UK CCTV up to 70 times per day. (2022)

    i think you mean akin to china !

  4. #4

    Re: Police Surveillance

    It's standard practice for anyone. Freedom of the press and all that. I would have thought that the Conspiracy theorists wouldn't mind things being filmed in public, after all, they want the truth, right? or does that only apply for 'their' truth The issue is obviously the police abusing the right to film in public, as is the case with anyone looking for 'Truth' There's some irony with this one...

  5. #5

    Re: Police Surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuerto View Post
    It's standard practice for anyone. Freedom of the press and all that. I would have thought that the Conspiracy theorists wouldn't mind things being filmed in public, after all, they want the truth, right? or does that only apply for 'their' truth The issue is obviously the police abusing the right to film in public, as is the case with anyone looking for 'Truth' There's some irony with this one...
    Here you go with your lazy “conspiracy theorists “ terminology, can’t you be more objective, and as an aside can you offer examples of where most of the conspiracy theories that were written about are unfounded?

    As an aside , nowt wrong with being filmed , so that will no doubt confuse you.

  6. #6

    Re: Police Surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by TWGL1 View Post
    Here you go with your lazy “conspiracy theorists “ terminology, can’t you be more objective, and as an aside can you offer examples of where most of the conspiracy theories that were written about are unfounded?

    As an aside , nowt wrong with being filmed , so that will no doubt confuse you.
    It's written in Law. If filming wasn't allowed in public, then there would be no freedom of press, and we wouldn't see what is really going on in world. I've got my finger on the pulse

  7. #7

    Re: Police Surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie View Post
    OK, so this post isn't directly football-related but I wanted more people to read it than the small number of conspiracy posters on the Alternative Forum - and in this case I believe that there is indeed something to be concerned about regarding Police surveillance.

    Leaving Cardiff Central yesterday, I saw a clutch of several hundred demonstrators protesting about the situation in Palestine. The protestors were on the paved area outside the station but about 30 to 40 yards away from where passengers would spill out from the station entrance (which was closed off probably due to the demonstration and were were all herded to the rear exit on arrival).

    I walked past the demonstration and decided to observe it from about 15 to 20 metres away and in an area where no-one was standing. I was clearly not actively involved in the stationary demo. To my left and about 10 years away was a policeman filming the demo, with the camera being pointed in the same way as I was looking.
    He suddenly caught sight of me observing him out of the corner of his eye and turned the camera 90 degrees to his right and was obviously filming me.

    I'm someone who isn't anti-Police and law-abiding but I considered his actions to be intrusive, invasive and the actions of a Police State.

    I approached him and asked him assertively as to why he was filming me and he just kept saying, sneeringly, that he was entitled to do so - whereupon a very tall policeman stood directly in front of me as a buffer.

    For my part, I think it's akin to Putin's Russia and have made a formal complaint to the Police, not that it will do a lot of good.
    Previously I would have said why worry about CCTV if you haven't done anything wrong. However with the advent of AI and fake images it seems to me anyone could be at risk. Welcome to our brave new world.

  8. #8

    Re: Police Surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Gofer Blue View Post
    Previously I would have said why worry about CCTV if you haven't done anything wrong. However with the advent of AI and fake images it seems to me anyone could be at risk. Welcome to our brave new world.
    I wouldn't worry about Police doing their jobs, have a quick google search for "pimeyes".
    Will find any image of any person searched, as long as its been uploaded to the internet...

  9. #9

    Re: Police Surveillance

    the law is quite simple here, if you are in a public place you have no right to not be filmed.

    saying that the police can only act within their powers, and they can only film you if they have good cause i.e. they suspect you to be a nefarious snide up to no good.

  10. #10

    Re: Police Surveillance

    Do you remember the case of the man who took the Police to court for filming him on Queen street and using their facial recognition - it went to court.
    Link is here https://www.libertyhumanrights.org.u...uality%20laws.

    The Police lost the case and were told to stop - I think they appealed - not sure what happened after that. I think they argued that there was enough legal framework to protect his rights.
    There is also (I believe) nothing to stop them filming and then processing the video through facial recognition. They will argue it can be used to catch known criminals, terrorists etc).
    On a personal level there is nothing to stop anyone from filming anyone else in a public space

  11. #11

    Re: Police Surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie View Post

    I approached him and asked him assertively as to why he was filming me and he just kept saying, sneeringly, that he was entitled to do so - whereupon a very tall policeman stood directly in front of me as a buffer.

    For my part, I think it's akin to Putin's Russia and have made a formal complaint to the Police, not that it will do a lot of good.
    It is dangerous step towards a police state....the same as facial recognition that seems to be increasing. The question is WHAT do they do with the data? I wonder what the reaction would be (I think I can guess)...if a member of the public reciprocated and started filing the police filming them...after all....they too are in a public place....

  12. #12

    Re: Police Surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Maurice Swan View Post
    It is dangerous step towards a police state....the same as facial recognition that seems to be increasing. The question is WHAT do they do with the data? I wonder what the reaction would be (I think I can guess)...if a member of the public reciprocated and started filing the police filming them...after all....they too are in a public place....
    Don’t we already live in a police state?

  13. #13

    Re: Police Surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie View Post
    OK, so this post isn't directly football-related but I wanted more people to read it than the small number of conspiracy posters on the Alternative Forum - and in this case I believe that there is indeed something to be concerned about regarding Police surveillance.

    Leaving Cardiff Central yesterday, I saw a clutch of several hundred demonstrators protesting about the situation in Palestine. The protestors were on the paved area outside the station but about 30 to 40 yards away from where passengers would spill out from the station entrance (which was closed off probably due to the demonstration and were were all herded to the rear exit on arrival).

    I walked past the demonstration and decided to observe it from about 15 to 20 metres away and in an area where no-one was standing. I was clearly not actively involved in the stationary demo. To my left and about 10 years away was a policeman filming the demo, with the camera being pointed in the same way as I was looking.
    He suddenly caught sight of me observing him out of the corner of his eye and turned the camera 90 degrees to his right and was obviously filming me.

    I'm someone who isn't anti-Police and law-abiding but I considered his actions to be intrusive, invasive and the actions of a Police State.

    I approached him and asked him assertively as to why he was filming me and he just kept saying, sneeringly, that he was entitled to do so - whereupon a very tall policeman stood directly in front of me as a buffer.

    For my part, I think it's akin to Putin's Russia and have made a formal complaint to the Police, not that it will do a lot of good.
    Where do you begin ? This so-called 'policing' has increasingly become what seems to be the main role of our modern police force - literally to 'police' the general public rather than serve them.It's an insidious encroachment into peoples' lives.

  14. #14

    Re: Police Surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathblue View Post
    Embrace your World
    China has for many years kept a high level of control over its citizens, people are supposed to inform the police if they travel to a different city - cameras monitor where cars are moving about etc
    And they did implement some very strict covid measures.

    However I don't recognise some of the statements above at all
    "most chinese people are living in 15 minute cities" that seems like total bollocks to me, having recently been there for work.

    Unless by 15 minute cities you mean that most people live within 15 minutes of all the amenities that they are likely to need - which is true of almost anyone living in big cities.

  15. #15

    Re: Police Surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    China has for many years kept a high level of control over its citizens, people are supposed to inform the police if they travel to a different city - cameras monitor where cars are moving about etc
    And they did implement some very strict covid measures.

    However I don't recognise some of the statements above at all
    "most chinese people are living in 15 minute cities" that seems like total bollocks to me, having recently been there for work.

    Unless by 15 minute cities you mean that most people live within 15 minutes of all the amenities that they are likely to need - which is true of almost anyone living in big cities.
    And they did implement some very strict covid measures.

    So did we

  16. #16

    Re: Police Surveillance

    See my reply in the Nostalgia thread...unless it's been moved....in which case it could be anywhere.

  17. #17

    Re: Police Surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen's Nephew View Post
    See my reply in the Nostalgia thread...unless it's been moved....in which case it could be anywhere.
    The Police moved it, I'm sure

  18. #18

    Re: Police Surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie View Post
    The Police moved it, I'm sure
    Nothing to see here.
    Last edited by Citizen's Nephew; 29-02-24 at 10:29. Reason: ...Dixon of Dock Green...nostalgia thread

  19. #19

    Re: Police Surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    China has for many years kept a high level of control over its citizens, people are supposed to inform the police if they travel to a different city - cameras monitor where cars are moving about etc
    And they did implement some very strict covid measures.

    However I don't recognise some of the statements above at all
    "most chinese people are living in 15 minute cities" that seems like total bollocks to me, having recently been there for work.

    Unless by 15 minute cities you mean that most people live within 15 minutes of all the amenities that they are likely to need - which is true of almost anyone living in big cities.
    This documentary on China's use of AI in surveillance is interesting but depressing.

  20. #20

    Re: Police Surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie View Post
    This documentary on China's use of AI in surveillance is interesting but depressing.
    which documentary?

  21. #21

    Re: Police Surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie View Post
    OK, so this post isn't directly football-related but I wanted more people to read it than the small number of conspiracy posters on the Alternative Forum - and in this case I believe that there is indeed something to be concerned about regarding Police surveillance.

    Leaving Cardiff Central yesterday, I saw a clutch of several hundred demonstrators protesting about the situation in Palestine. The protestors were on the paved area outside the station but about 30 to 40 yards away from where passengers would spill out from the station entrance (which was closed off probably due to the demonstration and were were all herded to the rear exit on arrival).

    I walked past the demonstration and decided to observe it from about 15 to 20 metres away and in an area where no-one was standing. I was clearly not actively involved in the stationary demo. To my left and about 10 years away was a policeman filming the demo, with the camera being pointed in the same way as I was looking.
    He suddenly caught sight of me observing him out of the corner of his eye and turned the camera 90 degrees to his right and was obviously filming me.

    I'm someone who isn't anti-Police and law-abiding but I considered his actions to be intrusive, invasive and the actions of a Police State.

    I approached him and asked him assertively as to why he was filming me and he just kept saying, sneeringly, that he was entitled to do so - whereupon a very tall policeman stood directly in front of me as a buffer.

    For my part, I think it's akin to Putin's Russia and have made a formal complaint to the Police, not that it will do a lot of good.
    Good on you for complaining, although I suspect it won't get you far, if nothing else, if you were unhappy with their attitude it is worth an email.

    FWIW I would feel the same. I do think given the real and perceived threat from some marches it is reasonable to film those surrounding the event for a short period. For example, you may have been planning an attack on them, or they you at this or a future event. So recording who generally is present seems reasonable. But that takes seconds. Perpetually recording you sounds over the top and I also would have been annoyed and I like to think my response would have been the same.

  22. #22

    Re: Police Surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesWales View Post
    Good on you for complaining, although I suspect it won't get you far, if nothing else, if you were unhappy with their attitude it is worth an email.

    FWIW I would feel the same. I do think given the real and perceived threat from some marches it is reasonable to film those surrounding the event for a short period. For example, you may have been planning an attack on them, or they you at this or a future event. So recording who generally is present seems reasonable. But that takes seconds. Perpetually recording you sounds over the top and I also would have been annoyed and I like to think my response would have been the same.
    I have received a response from the Police and stating that they would be investigating the matter officially.

  23. #23

    Re: Police Surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie View Post
    I have received a response from the Police and stating that they would be investigating the matter officially.
    That's good. Let us know how that goes.
    A Chinese young man in Cardiff gave me some details on their citizen score system back home together with their 'uber' equivalent app in China which moniters your conversation with the driver. If you or the driver venture into conversation that's unwanted by the government, then you immediately receive a verbal interjection via the app, and your scores are marked down accordingly.

  24. #24

    Re: Police Surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Dembe View Post
    I wouldn't worry about Police doing their jobs, have a quick google search for "pimeyes".
    Will find any image of any person searched, as long as its been uploaded to the internet...
    Anyone looked into this app yet?

  25. #25

    Re: Police Surveillance

    It seems that the written complaint I made to the Police (and which both parties have access to) has taken a new turn - in that the they have copied me into their internal report in which they summed up my complaint with a false synopsis i.e. they stated that I considered the filming of the protest illegal, which I never stated.
    As my complaint is in black and white and wasn't verbal at any stage I'll await with interest their response to me challenging them on that false statement.

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