+ Visit Cardiff FC for Latest News, Transfer Gossip, Fixtures and Match Results
Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 99

Thread: Lets Have a Sensible Debate -Part 1

  1. #1

    Lets Have a Sensible Debate -Part 1

    Regarding of Manager next season

    what do we do with Rubin Colwill ?

    His best position ?
    Do we build a team around him ?
    Is he good enough for top level championship / prem football ?

    Had more minutes this season than last and I,m still 50/50 his best position for starters .

    What do you lot think ?

  2. #2

    Re: Lets Have a Sensible Debate -Part 1

    Should play at the top of a midfield 3 and have two midfielders behind him who can cover the defensive work but also pass the ball to get it to him. This will free him up to influence games

  3. #3

    Re: Lets Have a Sensible Debate -Part 1

    It's quite interesting listening to the post match wales reaction when fans trying to be positive keep saying in years to come we will have colwill and koumas together and wales Will just be fine with that talent coming through. That seems to be a mainstream view.

    I can only assume those saying it don't watch him for cardiff city and are basing that on his assist for the under 21s v Lithuania.

  4. #4

    Re: Lets Have a Sensible Debate -Part 1

    We absolutely do not build a team around him. I don't think he's good enough for top level Championship/Premier League football. If someone wants to build a team around him, It needs to be in League 1 or 2.

  5. #5

    Re: Lets Have a Sensible Debate -Part 1

    The game passes him by, has some lovely touches on times but they are rather slow and laboured. There’s nothing high tempo about his game, saying that if we had a quick, high tempo player, the others would be admiring him open mouthed and stood still.

  6. #6

    Re: Lets Have a Sensible Debate -Part 1

    He’s played under a number of managers now and I’m not sure we are any closer to finding out. I think his general game has improved quite a lot this season.

    The obvious position is 10 but I’m not sure he does enough as a 10. He could play in a midfield 3 but he needs to do a lot more work than he does currently.

    I wouldn’t built a team around him no but when I look at this squad I think he needs to be starting most games. He offers more than most, I also like that he’s willing to try a difficult pass and always happy to take the ball he doesn’t go hiding like a lot of players.

  7. #7

    Re: Lets Have a Sensible Debate -Part 1

    I reckon Colwill needs to go on a season-long loan to a reasonable League One club. His career here is getting silly. There is absolutely no chance of him developing properly unless he is a regular starter somewhere, and he's not going to be that here as things stand.

    If he can go away and have a good season at the level below, there's a chance he could establish himself as a Championship player in years to come. But unless a new manager comes in with a totally different mindset, Colwill ain't going to be a regular starter here.

  8. #8

    Re: Lets Have a Sensible Debate -Part 1

    He's way past the age of being a youngster developing, he is a fully grown adult (no joke intended). Players are old enough if they are good enough - Best, Owen, Beckham, Rooney etc.

    It is so frustrating when a professional athlete cannot last or be allowed to play a full match. Is there a problem?

  9. #9

    Re: Lets Have a Sensible Debate -Part 1

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prophet of Doom View Post
    He's way past the age of being a youngster developing, he is a fully grown adult (no joke intended). Players are old enough if they are good enough - Best, Owen, Beckham, Rooney etc.

    It is so frustrating when a professional athlete cannot last or be allowed to play a full match. Is there a problem?
    Yes, he isn't as good as we all hoped he would be.

    Couple that with what are now obvious physical deficiencies and a lack of speed of thought during a game and he isn't the answer to our complete lack of creativity.

  10. #10

    Re: Lets Have a Sensible Debate -Part 1

    At the moment he just seems like a massive luxury player without the output.

    He undoubtedly has talent and moments in matches where he looks quality but he struggles to put that together.

    Played a part in 32 matches and has one goal, zero assists. I know he rarely, if ever manages 90 minutes but he doesn't help himself, gets a start yesterday and as our creative player in midfield contributes little going forward.

    I want it to work for him. At this stage of the season I'd happily see him start every match with his brother and ashford, start to plan for next season and really get a good idea of what they are about.

  11. #11

    Re: Lets Have a Sensible Debate -Part 1

    It seems to me that if he was good enough, he'd have nailed a starting place by now not struggling for game time.
    After all we aren't exactly blessed in the midfield department.

    Perhaps he isn't as committed as the managers he's been under would like.

    Could it be that he is disillusioned with his stop start career and not working hard enough.

    I have to agree that a loan to a League 1 or 2 seems the ideal move.

  12. #12

    Re: Lets Have a Sensible Debate -Part 1

    As I read on another thread our manager is a Turkish Warnock without success. He is a system guy and Colwill doesn't fit in the system. In the cold light of the next day did Champions League level Ramsey do any more than Colwill yesterday?

    I think at championship level there seems to be an issue with his fitness, perhaps that will be why he doesn't match up the early hype. He is just not athletic enough for this league. Until he proves he is a 90 min player then no one is coming in for him.

    I think he needs to be deeper but our manager wants a 6-foot athlete almost center half in there, not someone genuinely comfortable with the ball.

    He seemed to be a second striker at times yesterday and got lost. He isn't a Ramsey, who is (was) a CM but a rather attack minded one rather than a "10" like Tomlin, but that's what he has to turn into, a CM, not a winger or a "10"/ second striker. Only play one defensive CM and play 2 attack minded CM's but you are not a fancy Dan its a CM role and that hurts.......He and the club need to load him with the responsibility he has with Wakes U-21's

  13. #13

    Re: Lets Have a Sensible Debate -Part 1

    Some have been quick to write off Rubin Colwill, but I see some sort of comparison with another young attacking midfielder we had who signed for us almost 20 years ago now; club legend Peter Whittingham. Before I carry on, I'm not suggesting for a second that Colwill could become a Whitts, I'd just like to draw a few parallels.

    Whitts signed for us when he was 22, so he was a year older than Colwill is now. Whitts also had Premier League experience, so had a far greater head start in his career compared with Colwill. In Whitts first full season at the club he failed to nail down a regular starting place, particularly during the first half of the 2007/08 season. There were rumours at the end of that season that Forest were interested and some fans would have been happy to have seen Whitts leave. He'd have 1 good game in 6, was criticised by some as being lazy. He scored 5 goals that season. He only scored 3 in the 2008/09 season when, again, he wasn't always a starter, making 10 appearances from the bench and not starting much during the failed promotion run-in.

    It was the 2009/10 season that Whitts scored over 20 goals in all competitions and made a reputation for himself as one of the best free-kick and spectacular goal scorers anywhere. Whitts was 25 at the start of that season and, from then on, was arguably the first name on the team sheet for 6/7 years. Colwill is 21. If we never saw the best of Whitts until his mid 20s, then it is surely reasonable to suggest we might not see the same with Colwill for a few more seasons, until he learns more about the game and develops consistency. Whitts didn't have that consistency during his first few seasons with us.

    I agree with TLG that Colwill needs to go on loan, ideally (for me at least) to a League 1 side aiming for promotion. I'll repeat that I'm not suggesting Colwill could be another Whitts, but that he still has time on his side. It's about how well he's managed. Part of Whitts success was Dave Jones giving him quite a bit of freedom from defensive duties so Whitts could concentrate on hurting the opposition. I think placing too many defensive demands on Colwill won't help him progress. He needs more freedom and patience.

  14. #14

    Re: Lets Have a Sensible Debate -Part 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Trigger View Post
    At the moment he just seems like a massive luxury player without the output.

    He undoubtedly has talent and moments in matches where he looks quality but he struggles to put that together.

    Played a part in 32 matches and has one goal, zero assists. I know he rarely, if ever manages 90 minutes but he doesn't help himself, gets a start yesterday and as our creative player in midfield contributes little going forward.

    I want it to work for him. At this stage of the season I'd happily see him start every match with his brother and ashford, start to plan for next season and really get a good idea of what they are about.
    You say “as our creative player in midfield” as if we are only allowed one of them. I’m not having a go at you because after watching us play in recent years, you could be forgiven for thinking that was the case. I think to be fair to Bulut, he has tried to wean us off the long ball game, but, essentially, we still have Warnock type “bread and butter” central midfielders built more for the dogs of war stuff which goes with a more physical and direct approach. Have we started a league game with two out of Colwill, Ramsey and Turnbull in the team? I stand to be corrected, but I don’t think we have and I don’t think we will under this manager.

  15. #15

    Re: Lets Have a Sensible Debate -Part 1

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    You say “as our creative player in midfield” as if we are only allowed one of them. I’m not having a go at you because after watching us play in recent years, you could be forgiven for thinking that was the case. I think to be fair to Bulut, he has tried to wean us off the long ball game, but, essentially, we still have Warnock type “bread and butter” central midfielders built more for the dogs of war stuff which goes with a more physical and direct approach. Have we started a league game with two out of Colwill, Ramsey and Turnbull in the team? I stand to be corrected, but I don’t think we have and I don’t think we will under this manager.
    I’m sure there was an away game where they both started in a middle three, I can’t remember the game now but we lost.

    Edit
    WBA away was the game.

  16. #16

    Re: Lets Have a Sensible Debate -Part 1

    Let him go, regardless of our opinions of the managers we've had they are seasoned professionals and none over the last three years have fancied him as a consistent starter . He seems to have fitness issues, and his tracking back is still an issue. He doesn't have a clear cut position, which will be an issue wherever else he goes in large part due to his lack of ability to use his body despite his size and not being the quickest.

    I truly believe if he wasn't Welsh he would not receive the attention he does from the majority of our fans.

  17. #17

    Re: Lets Have a Sensible Debate -Part 1

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    You say “as our creative player in midfield” as if we are only allowed one of them. I’m not having a go at you because after watching us play in recent years, you could be forgiven for thinking that was the case. I think to be fair to Bulut, he has tried to wean us off the long ball game, but, essentially, we still have Warnock type “bread and butter” central midfielders built more for the dogs of war stuff which goes with a more physical and direct approach. Have we started a league game with two out of Colwill, Ramsey and Turnbull in the team? I stand to be corrected, but I don’t think we have and I don’t think we will under this manager.
    I think you stating we have central midfield players who are “dogs of war”, they are nowhere near players like that, in fact Wintle and Ralls, if they’re the ones you are thinking of couldn’t tackle a cooked dinner! They are lightweight midfielders, and definitely not Warnockesque.

  18. #18

    Re: Lets Have a Sensible Debate -Part 1

    Quote Originally Posted by 2b2bdoo View Post
    I’m sure there was an away game where they both started in a middle three, I can’t remember the game now but we lost.

    Edit
    WBA away was the game.
    Yes, you’re right, but I notice we started with a back three, wing backs, two strikers and no wingers that night (Grant couldn’t play), so maybe Bulut thought that the extra centreback gave him enough protection to have Colwill and Turnbull in the starting line up - whatever his thinking was, we conceded within thirty seconds!

    I should have said will two out of those three start when we play our normal four at the back.

  19. #19

    Re: Lets Have a Sensible Debate -Part 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Cleve van Leef View Post
    I think you stating we have central midfield players who are “dogs of war”, they are nowhere near players like that, in fact Wintle and Ralls, if they’re the ones you are thinking of couldn’t tackle a cooked dinner! They are lightweight midfielders, and definitely not Warnockesque.
    Well Ralls was in Warnock’s promotion team, but I accept he’s not the player now that he was then. As for Wintle, I’ve got more time for him than most City fans I reckon, but I’m not sure what sort of player he is. O’Dowda was talking in glowing terms about his technique after the Ipswich match, but he doesn’t do enough when he’s used as the number ten type for me and I accept that he’s no midfield hard man. Maybe I shouldn’t have said dogs of war, but, when we play with four at the back we have two number six types and it’s always two out of Wintle, Ralls and Siopis.

  20. #20

    Re: Lets Have a Sensible Debate -Part 1

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Yes, you’re right, but I notice we started with a back three, wing backs, two strikers and no wingers that night (Grant couldn’t play), so maybe Bulut thought that the extra centreback gave him enough protection to have Colwill and Turnbull in the starting line up - whatever his thinking was, we conceded within thirty seconds!

    I should have said will two out of those three start when we play our normal four at the back.
    Yeah, it’s a shame we started so poorly in that game as I wondered how that formation may have worked out. Even though both started it was a very clear 3 in midfield, none really pushing up to join the top 2.

  21. #21

    Re: Lets Have a Sensible Debate -Part 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    Some have been quick to write off Rubin Colwill, but I see some sort of comparison with another young attacking midfielder we had who signed for us almost 20 years ago now; club legend Peter Whittingham. Before I carry on, I'm not suggesting for a second that Colwill could become a Whitts, I'd just like to draw a few parallels.

    Whitts signed for us when he was 22, so he was a year older than Colwill is now. Whitts also had Premier League experience, so had a far greater head start in his career compared with Colwill. In Whitts first full season at the club he failed to nail down a regular starting place, particularly during the first half of the 2007/08 season. There were rumours at the end of that season that Forest were interested and some fans would have been happy to have seen Whitts leave. He'd have 1 good game in 6, was criticised by some as being lazy. He scored 5 goals that season. He only scored 3 in the 2008/09 season when, again, he wasn't always a starter, making 10 appearances from the bench and not starting much during the failed promotion run-in.

    It was the 2009/10 season that Whitts scored over 20 goals in all competitions and made a reputation for himself as one of the best free-kick and spectacular goal scorers anywhere. Whitts was 25 at the start of that season and, from then on, was arguably the first name on the team sheet for 6/7 years. Colwill is 21. If we never saw the best of Whitts until his mid 20s, then it is surely reasonable to suggest we might not see the same with Colwill for a few more seasons, until he learns more about the game and develops consistency. Whitts didn't have that consistency during his first few seasons with us.

    I agree with TLG that Colwill needs to go on loan, ideally (for me at least) to a League 1 side aiming for promotion. I'll repeat that I'm not suggesting Colwill could be another Whitts, but that he still has time on his side. It's about how well he's managed. Part of Whitts success was Dave Jones giving him quite a bit of freedom from defensive duties so Whitts could concentrate on hurting the opposition. I think placing too many defensive demands on Colwill won't help him progress. He needs more freedom and patience.
    Colwill is turning 22 in a month. I disagree that anyone has been quick to criticize him. Everyone wanted him to do well, but he just hasn't. His impact is minimal even when he doesn't defend. What has done this season? Scored a good goal against Bristol. Anything else of note?

  22. #22

    Re: Lets Have a Sensible Debate -Part 1

    If we had some kind of strategy as a team for scoring a goal, someone in front of him who can create space and a couple of midfielders around him who can pass to a teammate in front of them, I think we'd see a really good player.

  23. #23
    International jon1959's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Sheffield - out of Roath
    Posts
    16,115

    Re: Lets Have a Sensible Debate -Part 1

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Well Ralls was in Warnock’s promotion team, but I accept he’s not the player now that he was then. As for Wintle, I’ve got more time for him than most City fans I reckon, but I’m not sure what sort of player he is. O’Dowda was talking in glowing terms about his technique after the Ipswich match, but he doesn’t do enough when he’s used as the number ten type for me and I accept that he’s no midfield hard man. Maybe I shouldn’t have said dogs of war, but, when we play with four at the back we have two number six types and it’s always two out of Wintle, Ralls and Siopis.
    Just before the end of the first half Wintle and O'Dowda were having a go at Colwill. It seemed to be about his runs and his positioning. I never saw Bulut doing the same. Colwill had a poor half, but he was trying passes that didn't come off, making runs and coming back to the CBs to pick up the ball. He was trying but he was working to a different script from some of the others (not that the rest of the team was on the same script either).

    I can see why Wilson-Esbrand was taken off (he was giving the ball away to much and playing backwards) but Colwill was just a scapegoat for a poor first half by the whole team where there was no obvious plan or clarity of roles. Maybe that was down to players not doing what they were told, maybe it was just another off day, but the buck must stop with the manager.

  24. #24

    Re: Lets Have a Sensible Debate -Part 1

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    You say “as our creative player in midfield” as if we are only allowed one of them. I’m not having a go at you because after watching us play in recent years, you could be forgiven for thinking that was the case. I think to be fair to Bulut, he has tried to wean us off the long ball game, but, essentially, we still have Warnock type “bread and butter” central midfielders built more for the dogs of war stuff which goes with a more physical and direct approach. Have we started a league game with two out of Colwill, Ramsey and Turnbull in the team? I stand to be corrected, but I don’t think we have and I don’t think we will under this manager.
    This is so on point. I still maintain Rubin is a class player and it would be a massive shame if he had to leave us. But he needs players with vision around him. Players who see a pass early. Players he make intelligent runs. Yesterday wasn't Colwills best day, but the number of times he showed for a pass only to be either unseen or ignored was scandalous. Our defenders and defensive midfielders will not/ cannot play an earlier pass into space. The want 2 / 3 touches and then the space is closed down. Colwill should be guaranteed at least 70 minutes each game till the end of the season. And we need to play a system that allows him to play with Turnbull or Ramsey. As for Bulut, he should be on his bike.

  25. #25

    Re: Lets Have a Sensible Debate -Part 1

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    You say “as our creative player in midfield” as if we are only allowed one of them. I’m not having a go at you because after watching us play in recent years, you could be forgiven for thinking that was the case. I think to be fair to Bulut, he has tried to wean us off the long ball game, but, essentially, we still have Warnock type “bread and butter” central midfielders built more for the dogs of war stuff which goes with a more physical and direct approach. Have we started a league game with two out of Colwill, Ramsey and Turnbull in the team? I stand to be corrected, but I don’t think we have and I don’t think we will under this manager.
    That wasn't really my thought process to be honest. Merely stating the obvious that in that team that was colwill's role as Bulut does prefer the two worker type players behind him.

    I'd love to see Ramsey and colwill.

    If we play like we did yesterday it doesn't really matter what set up we have I guess.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •