Some people alluding to us getting three or four players in to suit a player who hasn't really done much (Colwill) **** me, that would take a brave manager.
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Some people alluding to us getting three or four players in to suit a player who hasn't really done much (Colwill) **** me, that would take a brave manager.
I could warm to the idea of Bulut here next season, were it not for the fact he handed 2yr contract extensions to Ralls and Wintle. Makes me suspicious of his ongoing plans..
Some have been quick to write off Rubin Colwill, but I see some sort of comparison with another young attacking midfielder we had who signed for us almost 20 years ago now; club legend Peter Whittingham. Before I carry on, I'm not suggesting for a second that Colwill could become a Whitts, I'd just like to draw a few parallels.
Whitts signed for us when he was 22, so he was a year older than Colwill is now. Whitts also had Premier League experience, so had a far greater head start in his career compared with Colwill. In Whitts first full season at the club he failed to nail down a regular starting place, particularly during the first half of the 2007/08 season. There were rumours at the end of that season that Forest were interested and some fans would have been happy to have seen Whitts leave. He'd have 1 good game in 6, was criticised by some as being lazy. He scored 5 goals that season. He only scored 3 in the 2008/09 season when, again, he wasn't always a starter, making 10 appearances from the bench and not starting much during the failed promotion run-in.
It was the 2009/10 season that Whitts scored over 20 goals in all competitions and made a reputation for himself as one of the best free-kick and spectacular goal scorers anywhere. Whitts was 25 at the start of that season and, from then on, was arguably the first name on the team sheet for 6/7 years. Colwill is 21. If we never saw the best of Whitts until his mid 20s, then it is surely reasonable to suggest we might not see the same with Colwill for a few more seasons, until he learns more about the game and develops consistency. Whitts didn't have that consistency during his first few seasons with us.
I agree with TLG that Colwill needs to go on loan, ideally (for me at least) to a League 1 side aiming for promotion. I'll repeat that I'm not suggesting Colwill could be another Whitts, but that he still has time on his side. It's about how well he's managed. Part of Whitts success was Dave Jones giving him quite a bit of freedom from defensive duties so Whitts could concentrate on hurting the opposition. I think placing too many defensive demands on Colwill won't help him progress. He needs more freedom and patience.
Colwill is turning 22 in a month. I disagree that anyone has been quick to criticize him. Everyone wanted him to do well, but he just hasn't. His impact is minimal even when he doesn't defend. What has done this season? Scored a good goal against Bristol. Anything else of note?Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee
Let him go, regardless of our opinions of the managers we've had they are seasoned professionals and none over the last three years have fancied him as a consistent starter . He seems to have fitness issues, and his tracking back is still an issue. He doesn't have a clear cut position, which will be an issue wherever else he goes in large part due to his lack of ability to use his body despite his size and not being the quickest.
I truly believe if he wasn't Welsh he would not receive the attention he does from the majority of our fans.
If we had some kind of strategy as a team for scoring a goal, someone in front of him who can create space and a couple of midfielders around him who can pass to a teammate in front of them, I think we'd see a really good player.
That's partly my point, though. Whitts didn't do a great deal of note during his first couple of seasons. He divided opinion, just as Colwill is at present.
If Colwill is good enough he should be in the first team regularly
Sending him out on loan is a waste of time
He's clearly a talented player but not consistent
I would play him in every game till the end of the season and toughen him up
Long-Rant-a-thon-Warning-Alert, and maybe going slightly off topic:
Regarding the Manager:
Early in the season, I liked the way we had a good shape "without the ball", and we pressed the opposition.
I like to see teams putting pressure on the opposition, especially defenders, because it tests their technique and exposes any weakness in it. It annoys me when I see Championship defenders strolling around, looking like Franz Beckenbauer. NO THEY ARE NOT!
I have always been of the opinion that if a Manager has been given a contract till the end of the season, then that should happen. It is one thing for us fans to get carried away basing our opinion on how a professional in his field is performing based on the last couple of results. It is another thing for the "real people in charge", to logically evaluate the progress, and decide if the Manager is worth investing in. The overall picture should be looked at... is progressive improvement happening? Based on the whole season... has there been an improvement? Should the Manager be invested in, going forward?
The way I see it is... the current Manager is too intransigent and set in his ways.
For example, there was a massive feel good factor after the Ipswich game. This should have carried on into the away game at Swansea Town. A team, that seemed to me, lacking in confidence and there for the taking.... a missed opportunity there.
Then the latest "performance" against Sunderland on Friday. OK, the pelenty was wrong, but Sunderland, as we were lead to believe in the lead up to the game, were a team of youngsters that had lost 7 of their last 8 games. Only recently scrambling a draw against struggling QPR.
Two nil down at half time, at home, hardly having a chance of our own during that half. Well... I have never played Professional football, so I can only imagine what a Manager would be saying at half-after witnessing that. At the very least I would have expected us to get some sort of momentum going.
Well, for what it is worth, I'll tell you what I remember as the sum total of us "attempting to get some momentum going forward" in that second half... a flicked pass from Ramsey that saw the receiver of the pass being flagged offside. The Sunderland goalkeeper jumping up and catching the ball....
Oh, and I noticed Turbull, who was warming up near us at the time when Sunderland missed yet another opportunity to score, after carving us open again for seemingly the umpteenth time that could have/should have put us 4/5 down... I tell you now, he was shaking his head in disbelief, and I don't blame him one bit, cos I was doing the same thing at the time!
The players that were brought on to effect the game were "established" (I.E old) players, that had zero impact in the game. Karlon Grant started as a striker. At least I think he did, cos he was running around mostly on the wing like he usually does. When we brought on the former Bristol player (who is on a temp 6 month contract), who incidentally did a worse job than poor old Karlon had done. Well, poor old Karlan was shoved out on the right wing for a bit. Then, to confound the situation, poor old Karlon was shoved over on to the left wing when the equally ineffective former Reading player was brought on, presumuably as a a battering ram to run around (and Batter a Ram) on the right wing. At least I think that was the plan.
During that time, and bearing in mind we were two-nil down at home, our defenders who have obviously been told to keep possession at the back, were all the time being pressed by the opposition, testing our lack of technique when under pressure (see Franz above), with no midfielders getting the ball from them and moving forward. I am willing to bet Sunderland couldn't believe their luck in playing a team so timid (just like these other teams this season, such as Leeds, Leicester, PRESTON FFS... etc, blah, blah, etc).
I said in a previous thread, which debated if we should get rid of the Manager, my thought at the time was that we should keep the Manager until the end of the season. At that time, my argument was that we will see how he reacts when under the cosh. He came through that.
But now, I see missed opportunitiees when he is making substitutions, bringing on "established"/old/past it/on-loan strikers that never look like scoring. With nothing to play for... why not reward some of the young hungry, albeit raw, players that are doing well in under 21s, with 20 mins, or half hour or so?
Can they be any more ineffective that those people that are being brought on? Maybe they are, but why not give them a run in the first team?
Maybe, just like Sunderland, they are found wanting for 6 games on the trot, but after they start to grow into the demands of real football, they may eventually play a team similar to this current City side, where a manager stuck in his ways, persists in using past it and on loan players, who week after week confirm how ineffective they are, and that have nothing to play for until the end of the season.
Rubin:
Many Managers have come and gone in short periods of time. Each one, Bullut included, want to keep their job, so are not willing to take a risk on untried youngsters, they will instead persist in using players with hundreds of games under their belt. After all, they don't want to risk their job!
In my opinion, previous, short-term thinking self serving Mangers have stalled Rubin's development. Each one comes in and publicly says "Rubin has to do this, or Rubin has to do that to become a professional footballer". I have no doubt that Rubin then goes into each training session and "does this, or does that" to show the Manager, that alien as it is, he can adapt and is willing to learn off the latest coach that thinks he is Pep's understudy in waiting. Then the next Manager comes in and publicly says "Rubin has to do this, or Rubin has to do that to become a professional footballer". I have no doubt that Rubin then goes into each training session and "does this, or does that", as the Manager instructs. He then gets overlooked. Then the next Manager comes in and says... well you get my drift. How is any young player expected to progress under such circumstance.
So in summary, my thoughts are:
Thank you Erol, you have turned us from looking like relegation fodder into Meh. That is an improvement on recent seasons.
Is the football any better? No, it is still lacking in any entertainment, but we keep possesion really well at the back, until we fall behind, then we pass the ball well at the back for a bit, with no midfeilder such as Gunner, or Jordan Much, capable of taking the ball from a defender and turning and going forward. We have plenty of players who can get the ball from a defender and pass it backwards to another defender.
I can't honestly bear thinking about another season of this rubbish that is being served up as Championship standard.
Can someone or the OP summarise this please. I’m not reading any post that long.
I assume it’s moaning about something.
He’s put a summary at the end of the post.
At present when he plays Colwill is expected to be the sole creative force in the side. Until we set up differently, we will never get the best out of him or find out how good he could be here.
Bulut doesn’t rate him. He loves to drop him or hook him. He brought Ramsey on and then he brought Ramsey back to play in midfield 2. Could be a maverick but he could have done that originally. At least Diedhiou came on, we could have put Colwill wide but we needed to get our prolific signing on the pitch.
You can’t debate anything without turning it into a Bulut hate campaign can you lol.
Could have just answered the questions.
I don’t know what to do with Colwill because of that. I don’t hate Bulut. He’s a decent enough bloke but he’s a poor manager and we desperately need a new one. I just want a coach that can improve players.
Re Colwill’s best position. He’s a 10, and he should play there. He can walk past people. He’s got bags of talent but whether he’s got enough between his ears I don’t know but I do know he’s not developing, nobody is. Who was the last player we signed, improved and sold?
I generally agree.
Except I think Colwill has improved a lot this season, looks a much more rounded player. He needs to play more for certain. I don’t think anyone knows what to do with Colwill, McCarthy, Morison, Hudson, Lamouchi, Page. I think Bulut has got a little more out of him in terms of he works harder but I agree he doesn’t know what to do with him or doesn’t think he’s up to it.
Mick did; Mick actually played him. For all his many failings, Mick was the last manager we had that gave the kids a go.
Just because 6 or 7 poor (and very defensive) managers can’t use him, it doesn’t mean he isn’t a talent. Every manager we’ve had is primarily concerned with not conceded goals, that’s their major concern. It was true with Morison (he said so repeatedly), Sabri, Bulut etc
Yeah Mick brought him in, not sure he knew what to do with him? I feel like I’ve seen a lot more of Colwill under Bulut than anyone else. I think he’s improved. He clearly had talent, I would love to see him have a strong finish to the season.
I've watched all of the Wales U21 games when they have been on Youtube for this qualifying, Colwill is the outstanding player of that group, if he'd played for another club I think we as Wales fans would be very excited about him.
It's a wankathon
Simply precis is he doesn't like bulut
I don't even think as one of his biggest supporters I'd build a team around him. He hasn't shown that kind of consistent play to this point and he's clearly a poor fit for how Bulut wants his team to play.
With that being said, I do think he gets unneccesary stick for being young, Welsh and an academy product and having a subset of supporters wanting him to do well for that reason. Other than the first few games of this season and the first half of the Warnock season, when did we have a team in the last 10 years in which any forward thinking midfielder had a chance to look good? Harry Wilson is pretty much a Premiership regular at this point in a very decent Fulham team and there was a large section of our fans who thought he was shite because he couldn't impact a game with the ball flying over his head for 70 minutes every Saturday. Turnbull who was a first team player for Celtic and Scotland at a relatively early age is well on his way to being another. When far more experienced and well regarded players can't do it, does Colwill deserve the criticism? I find it hard to understand to be honest.
So, in short, and going by this thread. For Rubin to fulfill his potential, we need a new manager, different players and different tactics. I propose changing the angle of the stadium.
Not so sure about different players, but yes, a new manager and different tactics would work wonders for him I reckon.
Some might see that as a thinly veiled criticism of our current set up but it isn't intended to be. It's nothing more than that old nugget where some players thrive at some clubs, under certain managers and with certain tactics, yet can look average (and worse) elsewhere. There aren't many players who are excellent at every club and under every manager they play under. Look at how many good players we've thought we've got over the years but have been shit for us, then done well elsewhere!!
Fair enough, it seems to be the general consensus on here amongst those who can see something special in Colwill.So, why not other players? Why aren't they being afforded this new formation tactical style in order for them to show us that they are better than they are? Etete, Wintle, Siopis, Bowler (Especially Bowler) Turnbull etc are routinely criticised and then some, They're not afforded the excuseof a new manager and tactics, coaching etc, But they're not Welsh and they didn't come through the system.
Ever heard the phrase' There's just something missing' Well that's how i feel about Colwill. There's just something not right about hi game and his physicality, and we could have another 20 managers and coaches and that wont change, He's the common denominator and we're now in the territory of excuses, which is something i really don't like.
I would suggest a good manager can make a team out of the players at his disposal and try and get the best out of them. For me Bulut has his tactic and shoehorns players into what he wants.
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