Looking at the national league- many of our 90s and 00s rivals in it

[blue matt]

Southend, Oldham, Halifax, Barnet, Chesterfield, York

Yet some like Brentford fulham and Brighton in the Premier league.

Not really making any point so i dont expect any replies just an observation.

Even down to Nat League south

I have just got my tickets for Bath FC V Torquay

Torquay entered administration this week


When people moan on here, it makes me smile, as things are not that bad

[Father Dougal]

Even down to Nat League south

I have just got my tickets for Bath FC V Torquay

Torquay entered administration this week


When people moan on here, it makes me smile, as things are not that bad

I would say though we have found our natural level. Mid table championship is where we should be the size of our club in the natural order of things.

We aren't a torquay or Barnet or Halifax and the 90s were below our par but there probably are about 30 clubs in England bigger than us.

[blue matt]

I would say though we have found our natural level. Mid table championship is where we should be the size of our club in the natural order of things.

We aren't a torquay or Barnet or Halifax and the 90s were below our par but there probably are about 30 clubs in England bigger than us.

you are right, teams ultimately find the lever they should be, look at Yeovil, a season in the championship and then the slide back down, thy are a good nat league team, when they slide down to Nat South last year, you knew they would bounce back up this season ( though having a wobble at the mo )

mid Champ league place for us, it could be worse, the occasional go at the play-offs, thats fine aswell

[Father Dougal]

you are right, teams ultimately find the lever they should be, look at Yeovil, a season in the championship and then the slide back down, thy are a good nat league team, when they slide down to Nat South last year, you knew they would bounce back up this season ( though having a wobble at the mo )

mid Champ league place for us, it could be worse, the occasional go at the play-offs, thats fine aswell

Yep you get those like Brentford and Luton who have been very well run who get to the very top which is brilliant. But they won't stick around there.

Same as Derby Sunderland Leeds Sheffield Wednesday. All went down to league 1 but all back stronger.

I think a lot of our anxieties around relegation are would we actually come back? It's interesting that sides like Ipswich Luton swansea Sunderland Brentford Bournemouth over the years have formed a new style in leagues 1 and 2 and taken that forward to the Premier league. You can't really find a new style in the Championship.

I feel we are like Stoke and Birmingham now in that we are kind of stuck in the Championship. Too afraid to try anything different so bumbling along is safest option.

Relegation could reignite the club, could bring some youngsters in doing well and some fun promotion campaigns (let's be honest if things continue relegation is still coming) but the fear is we have another 20 years being unable to get out and could even slide again.

Derby and Sunderland fans may have felt the same but it always felt inevitable they'd he back stronger. Not sure can say the same for us.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Yep you get those like Brentford and Luton who have been very well run who get to the very top which is brilliant. But they won't stick around there.

Same as Derby Sunderland Leeds Sheffield Wednesday. All went down to league 1 but all back stronger.

I think a lot of our anxieties around relegation are would we actually come back? It's interesting that sides like Ipswich Luton swansea Sunderland Brentford Bournemouth over the years have formed a new style in leagues 1 and 2 and taken that forward to the Premier league. You can't really find a new style in the Championship.

I feel we are like Stoke and Birmingham now in that we are kind of stuck in the Championship. Too afraid to try anything different so bumbling along is safest option.

Relegation could reignite the club, could bring some youngsters in doing well and some fun promotion campaigns (let's be honest if things continue relegation is still coming) but the fear is we have another 20 years being unable to get out and could even slide again.

Derby and Sunderland fans may have felt the same but it always felt inevitable they'd he back stronger. Not sure can say the same for us.

It's an interesting stat that, whenever we have dropped into the third tier, we've had better crowds when we've been going for promotion from the third tier than we did in being relegated.

I'd be interested to know why our crowds in the early 1970s halved from 1971 to 1973. It must have been more than just selling Toshack, more like going from a side that finished 3rd and just missed out on promotion, to a side avoiding relegation for a couple of seasons. The 70s and 80s were also a period of decline in attendances. Wolves went from an average of nearly 26k in 1980 to 4k in the third division 6 seasons later, yet had 14k in the same division 3 years later when they won it. I don't think it helped us that we were relegated at a time when the game across the UK was in such decline and our hooligan issues won't have encouraged others.

Our crowds have been more consistent over the last decade or so than probably at any other time in our history. We know we can virtually sell out our ground in the Premier League. Give us a season of decent football and challenging properly for the playoffs and we'll get well over 20k. There's not a shred of evidence to suggest our crowds would be decimated if we were relegated and had a good season the following year. In fact, most clubs get bigger crowds in the third tier if they're doing well than they did when they were relegated.

[the other bob wilson]

It's an interesting stat that, whenever we have dropped into the third tier, we've had better crowds when we've been going for promotion from the third tier than we did in being relegated.

I'd be interested to know why our crowds in the early 1970s halved from 1971 to 1973. It must have been more than just selling Toshack, more like going from a side that finished 3rd and just missed out on promotion, to a side avoiding relegation for a couple of seasons. The 70s and 80s were also a period of decline in attendances. Wolves went from an average of nearly 26k in 1980 to 4k in the third division 6 seasons later, yet had 14k in the same division 3 years later when they won it. I don't think it helped us that we were relegated at a time when the game across the UK was in such decline and our hooligan issues won't have encouraged others.

Our crowds have been more consistent over the last decade or so than probably at any other time in our history. We know we can virtually sell out our ground in the Premier League. Give us a season of decent football and challenging properly for the playoffs and we'll get well over 20k. There's not a shred of evidence to suggest our crowds would be decimated if we were relegated and had a good season the following year. In fact, most clubs get bigger crowds in the third tier if they're doing well than they did when they were relegated.

If you’re not old enough to have lived through the sale of Toshack, it’s easy to underestimate the impact it had. Looking back at in now, I’d say it was the moment when a lot of the older supporters worst fears about the club were realised - they thought all along that Toshack would be sold and they were proved right. Contrasting that, I was only fifteen at the time and still had the naivety of youth - I still do in a way because I believe the sale was inevitable but it should have been delayed until the end of 70/71 season.

At the time, we were a bigger club than Luton Town in terms of gates and potential (I’d say we still are today), but Luton made a conscious decision to hold on to their young goalscorer Malcolm McDonald until the end of 70/71. Now, I could make an argument on either side as to who was the better player out of the two, but if you asked Toshack and McDonald to show you their medals from their club careers, there’s no doubting that the ex City man has the more impressive collection.

However, by selling Toshack in November 1970, City got £110,000 and by selling McDonald in the summer of 1971, Luton got £180,000 for McDonald and that isn’t an accurate reflection of the relative abilities of the two players at that time.

So, City were not just perceived as being willing to sell, they were seen as eager to sell as those misgivings of the older fan base were realised. People generally stuck with the club for the rest of that season and the early games of 71/72, but it soon became obvious that the team was a shadow of its former self and that the sale of Toshack had not benefited the club on the pitch. With the team in sharp decline and Toshack’s replacement Alan Warboys mirroring this, it’s understandable that gatesdropped so drastically.


It was during this period that I began thinking that City would average about 25,000 if they ever became an established First Division club and I stuck with that opinion until I was proved wrong in 18/19 in the Premier League. We’d get crowds like that again if we were ever promoted again and they might be bigger again if the stadium was expanded., but you give any set of supporters the sort of dull and unsuccessful garbage that City home fans have had to watch since the grounds reopened in 21/22 and it’s obvious less are going to attend.

I agree with you, if we were to get relegated and this led to better results and more enjoyable football, you’d see crowds getting over the 20,000 mark and maybe higher.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

If you’re not old enough to have lived through the sale of Toshack, it’s easy to underestimate the impact it had. Looking back at in now, I’d say it was the moment when a lot of the older supporters worst fears about the club were realised - they thought all along that Toshack would be sold and they were proved right. Contrasting that, I was only fifteen at the time and still had the naivety of youth - I still do in a way because I believe the sale was inevitable but it should have been delayed until the end of 70/71 season.

At the time, we were a bigger club than Luton Town in terms of gates and potential (I’d say we still are today), but Luton made a conscious decision to hold on to their young goalscorer Malcolm McDonald until the end of 70/71. Now, I could make an argument on either side as to who was the better player out of the two, but if you asked Toshack and McDonald to show you their medals from their club careers, there’s no doubting that the ex City man has the more impressive collection.

However, by selling Toshack in November 1970, City got £110,000 and by selling McDonald in the summer of 1971, Luton got £180,000 for McDonald and that isn’t an accurate reflection of the relative abilities of the two players at that time.

So, City were not just perceived as being willing to sell, they were seen as eager to sell as those misgivings of the older fan base were realised. People generally stuck with the club for the rest of that season and the early games of 71/72, but it soon became obvious that the team was a shadow of its former self and that the sale of Toshack had not benefited the club on the pitch. With the team in sharp decline and Toshack’s replacement Alan Warboys mirroring this, it’s understandable that gatesdropped so drastically.


It was during this period that I began thinking that City would average about 25,000 if they ever became an established First Division club and I stuck with that opinion until I was proved wrong in 18/19 in the Premier League. We’d get crowds like that again if we were ever promoted again and they might be bigger again if the stadium was expanded., but you give any set of supporters the sort of dull and unsuccessful garbage that City home fans have had to watch since the grounds reopened in 21/22 and it’s obvious less are going to attend.

I agree with you, if we were to get relegated and this led to better results and more enjoyable football, you’d see crowds getting over the 20,000 mark and maybe higher.

No chance

We would get far lower away support than we have in the Championship

Leeds , Swansea , Bristol City , Birmingham , Sunderland , West Brom , Coventry , Leicester , Ipswich have boosted our gates by at least 1500 on the occasions they have visited both our home attendance and away team numbers would drop

Cardiff City fans are incredibly fickle .....always have been

We like the big games .....no problem getting big crowds once in a while .....but a relegation to league one would see a big decline in gates , and the quality of football will be just one of the excuses not to attend

When we were in the basement last time we would get an occasional big crowd .....Burnley, Shrewsbury .....but the rest of the season would be poor

In fact sides like Plymouth had far better support than us at the same level , even Bristol Rovers

[Des Parrot]

Even down to Nat League south

I have just got my tickets for Bath FC V Torquay

Torquay entered administration this week

When people moan on here, it makes me smile, as things are not that bad

Plus: Aldershot, Rochdale & Kidderminster

Next level down:

Torquay, Yeovil, Hereford, Maidstone, Scarboro, Darlington, Scunthorpe, Chester, Boston, Southport
Rushden are still around somewhere as are Macclesfield & Bury
Probably others I’ve missed!