Sala case

[pomeroy]

I don’t blame anyone bar the people who knew the pilot wasn’t fit to fly. Even if McKay was one of them, I still don’t see where Nantes come in to it?

If he had gone back to Nantes 4 weeks later and this had happened would it even be a thing? It feels to me we are trying to create a grey area around the timing of everything but the deal and the responsibilities of certain agents and clubs but the deal had been completed and Nantes had no obligation to put him on any transport.

All seems very wrong to me. As is the laughable sums they have come up with. Our club is once again being dragged through the mud

In French law it is a criminal act for unlicenced agents to act in player transfers. The president of Nantes and his son have both been charged by the French court in using unlicenced agents since 2015 together with fraud and money laundering. In this case an unlicenced agent viz. McKay acted for Nantes in the Sala transfer and in law the agent is deemed to be the club. Therefore the contract between FC Nantes and Cardiff City FC could be considered by the Court to be illegal and null and void. The matter as to who arranged the flight is important but not the nub of the matter. Cardiff City lawyers consider they have a good case as they did with the insurers who settled out of court. We will see how this matter pans out but the consensus is that there will be a settlement before the matter reaches court.

[Trigger]

Weren't we cosying up to the same agent? Warnock and other club officials had already flown over on the same plane or at least with the same pilot? VI'm sure I remember seeing that at the time.

We also of course had his two sons in our academy suddenly.

I've really lost interest in all this a while ago so I have no real idea about how this will go but other than the insurance settlement the club has lost every case on this.

I'd have liked a line drawn under it long ago. People will say it's easy when it's not my money, well let's hope Tan wins something then as overall the costs must have risen substantially, not forgetting the time and energy being put into this. Premier league club for court cases.

[life on mars]

Tan is not stupid , perhaps a lawyer has told him he has say a 60/40 chance on the many millions , its stick or twist, I'd twist and chase the money for the price of a lawyer and court fee's .

This tragic incident has really effected the club in so many ways ,for so many years .

[jon1959]

Weren't we cosying up to the same agent? Warnock and other club officials had already flown over on the same plane or at least with the same pilot? VI'm sure I remember seeing that at the time.

We also of course had his two sons in our academy suddenly.

I've really lost interest in all this a while ago so I have no real idea about how this will go but other than the insurance settlement the club has lost every case on this.

I'd have liked a line drawn under it long ago. People will say it's easy when it's not my money, well let's hope Tan wins something then as overall the costs must have risen substantially, not forgetting the time and energy being put into this. Premier league club for court cases.

The club hasn't won an insurance settlement. There was no insurance cover for Emiliano Sala at the time of his death.

It has sued its' insurance broker (Miller Insurance Services LLP) for professional misconduct/negligence - and accepted an undisclosed out of court offer from them in settlement of the claim.

[Enoch Mort]

Weren't we cosying up to the same agent? Warnock and other club officials had already flown over on the same plane or at least with the same pilot? VI'm sure I remember seeing that at the time.

We also of course had his two sons in our academy suddenly.

I've really lost interest in all this a while ago so I have no real idea about how this will go but other than the insurance settlement the club has lost every case on this.

I'd have liked a line drawn under it long ago. People will say it's easy when it's not my money, well let's hope Tan wins something then as overall the costs must have risen substantially, not forgetting the time and energy being put into this. Premier league club for court cases.

I think you are correct in thinking that our links to McKay, be they direct or indirect, are somewhat concerning. It would be interesting to find out the circumstances of the signing of the McKay twins - was it approved by the Transfer Committee or was the decision delegated to Warnock as it was for the U21s and not the first team?

We know that Dalman, Choo and the Transfer Committee said no to the transfer. Whether that decision was because of the agent involved, the £15m fee, a 5 year contract and £50k per week or all of the above we may never know but it should have ended there. But no, Warnock, not content with that decision went behind the backs of Messrs Dalman and Choo and appealed directly to Tan, the ultimate decision maker. Sadly, he said yes and the rest is history. You can imagine Warnock saying to Tan that he is the expert with promotions galore and that the Transfer Committee haven't got a clue. If we had had football expertise on the Board at the time it might have given weight to the original decision to say no to the deal. However, as we know, Tan doesn't trust anyone so won't countenance such an appointment as a DoF but, at the time, must have trusted Warnock to say yes to the deal.

Perhaps Tan's motivation for pursuing this litigation as far as it can go is not just for obvious financial reasons but also to try and save face as a result of his intervention. After all, if he had trusted his decision makers in Cardiff, we would not be where we are now.

[jon1959]

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/...-100m-29038322

[bobh]

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/...-100m-29038322

Cardiff City confident of winning £100m case as experts predict difference Sala goals would have made

I can see Cardiff winning the case to some extent, but I can't see £100M being awarded on "What might have happened".
There is no guarantee that we would have stayed up with Sala - he might have got injured first game

[Grangenders]

I imagine this has got many years left to run. Will Tan still be around then? If so and we win, I’m not sure Nantes will be having vast sums of money to cough up - apparently they were struggling financially not too long ago.

[jon1959]

I imagine this has got many years left to run. Will Tan still be around then? If so and we win, I’m not sure Nantes will be having vast sums of money to cough up - apparently they were struggling financially not too long ago.

In my opinion Tan is very unlikely to part company with Cardiff (even if he can get an offer for the club that he is willing to accept) until the Sala case(s) are completed. I think with him it is about much more than money - it is personal; it is about 'corrupt' agents; it is about his sense of respect and disrespect from Nantes. There are a mass of contradictions (respect!) in there but I can only see him staying until the end.

[North Cardiff Blue]

In my opinion Tan is very unlikely to part company with Cardiff (even if he can get an offer for the club that he is willing to accept) until the Sala case(s) are completed. I think with him it is about much more than money - it is personal; it is about 'corrupt' agents; it is about his sense of respect and disrespect from Nantes. There are a mass of contradictions (respect!) in there but I can only see him staying until the end.

That makes sense, and obviously, the money will also make it far more favorable and less costly to move on.

[Ninian1962]

I can see Cardiff winning the case to some extent, but I can't see £100M being awarded on "What might have happened".
There is no guarantee that we would have stayed up with Sala - he might have got injured first game

The case is being held in the Nantes Commercial Court which is to CCFC`s advantage as the judges are businessmen rather than solicitors and the judgement will be based on reasonableness and the balance of probabilities rather than strict legal certainty. For this reason the club utilised the services of independent professional statisticians to give an assessment of the probability of the availability of Sala leading to CCFC avoiding relegation (their evidence has been accepted in court disputes before).
Based on the above and the "probability" assessment , which i think was in the range 44% to 52% the following might apply

1) CCFC win the case and the Court awards damages of 44% of the £100m claim so Nantes` insurers have to pay over £44m or
2) Nantes insurers realise Nantes are likely to lose the case so strongly advise their client to settle out of court for a substantial sum but less than £44m

[Former Labour leader]

The case is being held in the Nantes Commercial Court which is to CCFC`s advantage as the judges are businessmen rather than solicitors and the judgement will be based on reasonableness and the balance of probabilities rather than strict legal certainty. For this reason the club utilised the services of independent professional statisticians to give an assessment of the probability of the availability of Sala leading to CCFC avoiding relegation (their evidence has been accepted in court disputes before).
Based on the above and the "probability" assessment , which i think was in the range 44% to 52% the following might apply

1) CCFC win the case and the Court awards damages of 44% of the £100m claim so Nantes` insurers have to pay over £44m or
2) Nantes insurers realise Nantes are likely to lose the case so strongly advise their client to settle out of court for a substantial sum but less than £44m

Keith, Is it realistically possible that French court will award those sort of figures and have you any idea if insurance would cover? I cannot imagine Nantes have a pot to piss in.

[light up the darkness]

I can see Cardiff winning the case to some extent, but I can't see £100M being awarded on "What might have happened".
There is no guarantee that we would have stayed up with Sala - he might have got injured first game

The club have employed expert witness that states we would have had a 52-56% chance of staying up.iirc

The 100 million claim is probably an opportunity for Nantes to settle.

Either way Nantes are in trouble with the FFA

[North Cardiff Blue]

The club have employed expert witness that states we would have had a 52-56% chance of staying up.iirc

The 100 million claim is probably an opportunity for Nantes to settle.

Either way Nantes are in trouble with the FFA

Not a great expert either I would say 97.576% it affected Warnock too, we would have stayed up easy.

[bigjoe]

The club have employed expert witness that states we would have had a 52-56% chance of staying up.iirc

The 100 million claim is probably an opportunity for Nantes to settle.

Either way Nantes are in trouble with the FFA

FFF?

[G rangetown Blue]

If, as reported, the transfer payment has been made, did Bordeaux get the 50% sell on fee?

[bigjoe]

The club have employed expert witness that states we would have had a 52-56% chance of staying up.iirc

The 100 million claim is probably an opportunity for Nantes to settle.

Either way Nantes are in trouble with the FFA

FFF?

[Eric Cartman]

I don’t blame anyone bar the people who knew the pilot wasn’t fit to fly. Even if McKay was one of them, I still don’t see where Nantes come in to it?

If he had gone back to Nantes 4 weeks later and this had happened would it even be a thing? It feels to me we are trying to create a grey area around the timing of everything but the deal and the responsibilities of certain agents and clubs but the deal had been completed and Nantes had no obligation to put him on any transport.

All seems very wrong to me. As is the laughable sums they have come up with. Our club is once again being dragged through the mud

If you are a business and employ somebody who does something wrong, you are liable for that mistake/the consequences. Is that not a pretty well established convention?

[Eric Cartman]

The case is being held in the Nantes Commercial Court which is to CCFC`s advantage as the judges are businessmen rather than solicitors and the judgement will be based on reasonableness and the balance of probabilities rather than strict legal certainty. For this reason the club utilised the services of independent professional statisticians to give an assessment of the probability of the availability of Sala leading to CCFC avoiding relegation (their evidence has been accepted in court disputes before).
Based on the above and the "probability" assessment , which i think was in the range 44% to 52% the following might apply

1) CCFC win the case and the Court awards damages of 44% of the £100m claim so Nantes` insurers have to pay over £44m or
2) Nantes insurers realise Nantes are likely to lose the case so strongly advise their client to settle out of court for a substantial sum but less than £44m

I'd imagine we would take the transfer fee as a settlement and that may well have been the plan all along

[Undercoverinwurzelland]

Technically, if the club wins and is reimbursed by Nantes for the transfer fee, no loss was suffered as a result of the insurance broker's negligence. It's possible that the terms of the settlement with them could require the club to repay them.

[Don Corleone]

I believe the "problem" was that a scheduled flight service would be Nantes-Paris-Heathrow taking several hours.

No I go quite frequently to Nantes with work , there are direct flights to Gatwick . If I recall correctly at the time there was a direct flight to Heathrow with BA but it was early afternoon and the private plane allowed him more time on the Monday and avoided the journey to Wales from Heathrow

[JumpersforGoalposts]

No I go quite frequently to Nantes with work , there are direct flights to Gatwick . If I recall correctly at the time there was a direct flight to Heathrow with BA but it was early afternoon and the private plane allowed him more time on the Monday and avoided the journey to Wales from Heathrow

My mistake, it was Cardiff-Paris-Nantes on scheduled flights as reported here: https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/footb...eveal-14070625

[splott parker]

No I go quite frequently to Nantes with work , there are direct flights to Gatwick . If I recall correctly at the time there was a direct flight to Heathrow with BA but it was early afternoon and the private plane allowed him more time on the Monday and avoided the journey to Wales from Heathrow

Didn’t he want to leave later because he wanted to go to Nantes training ground to say goodbye to his mates?

[North Cardiff Blue]

Didn’t he want to leave later because he wanted to go to Nantes training ground to say goodbye to his mates?

Yes, he did and tied up loose ends, he was making arrangements for someone to look after his dog as well before it could be brought over apparently.

[TheBirchgrovePub]

If you are a business and employ somebody who does something wrong, you are liable for that mistake/the consequences. Is that not a pretty well established convention?

If I owned a business and someone I employed for a specific purpose completed his job then at a later date he separately organised a doomed flight for an ex-employee then I wouldn’t expect to be liable for anything no?

It is ludicrous what we are doing and absolutely shameful. Nantes have acted poorly as well in their actions in terms of not contributing to the trust fund and chasing money immediately, but that is completely unrelated to what we are going after them for and not at all relevant.

When the dust settles on this, people will look back embarrassed at the stance they took on this.