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Thread: "Science is not perfect but it trumps faith and belief all the time" - true or false?

  1. #1

    "Science is not perfect but it trumps faith and belief all the time" - true or false?

    Sludge has put into words the feelings of a number of people who are active across CCMB.

    Can this statement be verified or is it an unsubstantiated swipe at God, the Bible and people who have placed their trust in Him?

  2. #2

    Re: "Science is not perfect but it trumps faith and belief all the time" - true or false?

    Quote Originally Posted by truthpaste View Post
    Sludge has put into words the feelings of a number of people who are active across CCMB.

    Can this statement be verified or is it an unsubstantiated swipe at God, the Bible and people who have placed their trust in Him?
    Christians go on and on about God being present in their lives

    That they have spoken to him

    That their prayers for their friend or wife or dog have been answered

    That they have witnessed miracles

    Then they need to provide factual evidence .......film recordings , video , photos .....to prove these things have happened or are happening

    It's 2024 now

    Plenty of time for god and the Christians to get up to date with technology

    If I tell a Christian that if he eats soap he will be sick I can prove that

    Science tells us that if a human being eats a detergent he will vomit



    I want a Christian to prove to me that God exists in a way that is measurable.......

    Christians cannot do this

    Their opinion or belief is fine but it cannot better scientific fact

  3. #3

    Re: "Science is not perfect but it trumps faith and belief all the time" - true or false?

    Just what we need. Another God thread

  4. #4

    Re: "Science is not perfect but it trumps faith and belief all the time" - true or false?

    Quote Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie View Post
    Just what we need. Another God thread
    1. There's more than enough God-free threads to keep you amused if you really wanted to engage numerous threads that were not going to challenge your world view.

    2. Also there are many threads that glorify other gods like power, money and avarice with no complaints at all?

  5. #5
    International jon1959's Avatar
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    Re: "Science is not perfect but it trumps faith and belief all the time" - true or false?

    Quote Originally Posted by truthpaste View Post
    1. There's more than enough God-free threads to keep you amused if you really wanted to engage numerous threads that were not going to challenge your world view.

    2. Also there are many threads that glorify other gods like power, money and avarice with no complaints at all?
    1. FFS do we now have to see this board's threads through the warped prism of 'God' and 'non God'? I have only just accepted the choices of 'Forum' and 'alt Forum'. Maybe you and Gofer can have your own sub-board where you can quote extracts from an old compendium of mis-translations to each other to your heart's content?

    2. And I'm sure from my decades of indoctrination that avarice is a 'deadly sin', not a god. Very poor from you truthpaste - that is worth a few centuries more in purgatory!

  6. #6

    Re: "Science is not perfect but it trumps faith and belief all the time" - true or false?

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    1. FFS do we now have to see this board's threads through the warped prism of 'God' and 'non God'? I have only just accepted the choices of 'Forum' and 'alt Forum'. Maybe you and Gofer can have your own sub-board where you can quote extracts from an old compendium of mis-translations to each other to your heart's content?

    2. And I'm sure from my decades of indoctrination that avarice is a 'deadly sin', not a god. Very poor from you truthpaste - that is worth a few centuries more in purgatory!
    As expected, but don't panic, a Guardian only section is starting on 1st June

  7. #7
    International jon1959's Avatar
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    Re: "Science is not perfect but it trumps faith and belief all the time" - true or false?

    Quote Originally Posted by truthpaste View Post
    As expected, but don't panic, a Guardian only section is starting on 1st June
    The Guardian is in love with Tony Blair but is a bit embarrassed by Benjamin Netanyahu. It has led the UK political misinformation campaign of the past 10 years, and silenced some of it's best staff reporters and cartoonists. A paper that (since the departure of Alan Rusbridger) I disagree with more than agree.

    But it has in recent times given space to some people with alternative views, experiences or insights - and those I sometimes share with you to help your education. Don't thank me - it is just a little kindness I do now and then.

    Despite its' many faults it is a better source of information and opinion than the sources you seem to rely on - the ones you advertise and the ones you don't.

    Glad that is cleared up.

  8. #8

    Re: "Science is not perfect but it trumps faith and belief all the time" - true or false?

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    But it has in recent times given space to some people with alternative views, experiences or insights - and those I sometimes share with you to help your education. Don't thank me - it is just a little kindness I do now and then.

    Despite its' many faults it is a better source of information and opinion than the sources you seem to rely on - the ones you advertise and the ones you don't.
    Glad that is cleared up.
    On the last point, I always place a link with any articles I have quoted, there may be the odd exception over the years but anyone can cut and paste phrases into Google anyway and that will take them directly to the source, not rocket science.

    Your 'kindness' is always appreciated and comes with the territory

    As for your 'better' source of information - hold on to that thought, The Guardian will feature again, very soon.

  9. #9

    Re: "Science is not perfect but it trumps faith and belief all the time" - true or false?

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    Christians go on and on about God being present in their lives

    That they have spoken to him

    That their prayers for their friend or wife or dog have been answered

    That they have witnessed miracles

    Then they need to provide factual evidence .......film recordings , video , photos .....to prove these things have happened or are happening

    It's 2024 now

    Plenty of time for god and the Christians to get up to date with technology

    If I tell a Christian that if he eats soap he will be sick I can prove that

    Science tells us that if a human being eats a detergent he will vomit



    I want a Christian to prove to me that God exists in a way that is measurable.......

    Christians cannot do this

    Their opinion or belief is fine but it cannot better scientific fact
    Thanks for the update, we can all set our online Calendars to the current year

    If the deepest and most beneficial thoughts in life came from lighting a piece of paper, knowing that Castrol GTX isn't the best oil for cooking chips or that Persil Liquid doesn't make the best cocktail for the wife, then your chosen replacement for God (being science) would be a shoe-in for everyone!

    Thankfully most of us are looking for bigger answers to bigger questions; so before we look at God's Word verses Man's recorded words (in science, philosophy etc) in the areas we ALL can understand, are you still convinced that science alone provides any decent answers to life's biggest questions? Or maybe like some people, you are just apathetic, and you don't care? It would be good to know your thoughts on this before we begin?

  10. #10

    Re: "Science is not perfect but it trumps faith and belief all the time" - true or false?

    Quote Originally Posted by truthpaste View Post
    Thanks for the update, we can all set our online Calendars to the current year

    If the deepest and most beneficial thoughts in life came from lighting a piece of paper, knowing that Castrol GTX isn't the best oil for cooking chips or that Persil Liquid doesn't make the best cocktail for the wife, then your chosen replacement for God (being science) would be a shoe-in for everyone!

    Thankfully most of us are looking for bigger answers to bigger questions; so before we look at God's Word verses Man's recorded words (in science, philosophy etc) in the areas we ALL can understand, are you still convinced that science alone provides any decent answers to life's biggest questions? Or maybe like some people, you are just apathetic, and you don't care? It would be good to know your thoughts on this before we begin?
    I have told you that you need to provide evidence

  11. #11

    Re: "Science is not perfect but it trumps faith and belief all the time" - true or false?

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    I have told you that you need to provide evidence
    Fine, you will have sufficient evidence that would allow any honest seeker to make a logical decision, but can you deliver a two way dialogue along the way, because as is often the case, you just keep repeating yourself and ignoring anything asked of you? Can you attempt to address my last post please, then I will reply to you.

  12. #12

    Re: "Science is not perfect but it trumps faith and belief all the time" - true or false?

    Quote Originally Posted by truthpaste View Post
    Fine, you will have sufficient evidence that would allow any honest seeker to make a logical decision, but can you deliver a two way dialogue along the way, because as is often the case, you just keep repeating yourself and ignoring anything asked of you? Can you attempt to address my last post please, then I will reply to you.
    No

    I am not looking for a debate about life's big questions

    Please keep on track

    Evidence

    Thank you

  13. #13

    Re: "Science is not perfect but it trumps faith and belief all the time" - true or false?

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    No

    I am not looking for a debate about life's big questions

    Please keep on track

    Evidence

    Thank you
    So you want me to go to the trouble of getting you all the key information without you making any attempt to have a normal adult conversation? Why do you think you can present science as having all the answers and I present the wisdom of God as having the answer to everything (that matters), yet you feel you don't have to answer one question and I have to answer all your questions?

  14. #14

    Re: "Science is not perfect but it trumps faith and belief all the time" - true or false?

    Can anyone help Sludge out?

    Why does Science trump all that God has told us re life, the universe and everything?

  15. #15
    International jon1959's Avatar
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    Re: "Science is not perfect but it trumps faith and belief all the time" - true or false?

    Quote Originally Posted by truthpaste View Post
    Can anyone help Sludge out?

    Why does Science trump all that God has told us re life, the universe and everything?
    Sludge doesn’t need any help with this one.

    He’s slam dunked you every time.

    ‘God’ hasn’t ‘told us’ anything. There is no God or gods.

    The two of you are speaking different languages. It is two distant circles, not a venn diagram. There is no point of contact. Give it up and let’s all have a break. Please.

  16. #16

    Re: "Science is not perfect but it trumps faith and belief all the time" - true or false?

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    Sludge doesn’t need any help with this one.

    He’s slam dunked you every time.

    ‘God’ hasn’t ‘told us’ anything. There is no God or gods.

    The two of you are speaking different languages. It is two distant circles, not a venn diagram. There is no point of contact. Give it up and let’s all have a break. Please.
    When you have something to add then add it, the fact that you are shipwrecked on the same vessel as Sludge with no evidence for your chosen world view isn't my fault. Your passions obviously lie elsewhere as your posts indicate. I don't go arguing politics with you and others and neither do your thoughts on that subject bother me, so why does this subject bother you?

  17. #17

    Re: "Science is not perfect but it trumps faith and belief all the time" - true or false?

    Quote Originally Posted by truthpaste View Post
    Can anyone help Sludge out?

    Why does Science trump all that God has told us re life, the universe and everything?
    Because it not from a book of fictious stories.
    That you think is true.
    You are going to be so dissapointed on your death bed when you realiase there is nothing after.

  18. #18

    Re: "Science is not perfect but it trumps faith and belief all the time" - true or false?

    Quote Originally Posted by truthpaste View Post
    So you want me to go to the trouble of getting you all the key information without you making any attempt to have a normal adult conversation? Why do you think you can present science as having all the answers and I present the wisdom of God as having the answer to everything (that matters), yet you feel you don't have to answer one question and I have to answer all your questions?
    I do not want you to gather things so we can have a conversation

    I have provided simple evidence of scientific facts

    Now I would like you to provide evidence that God is here and with us in the present .......he's omnipresent and omnipotent according to Christians

    We can deal with past evidence and the future such as the afterlife later

    But the first bridge to cross is for you to provide evidence that God exists

    Quotes from the Bible are not evidence

  19. #19

    Re: "Science is not perfect but it trumps faith and belief all the time" - true or false?

    Quote Originally Posted by jeepster View Post
    Because it not from a book of fictious stories.
    That you think is true.
    You are going to be so dissapointed on your death bed when you realiase there is nothing after.
    That is a bizzare comment!
    And even if your baseless assessment is correct:-

    1. Why would I be disappointed on my death bed
    BEFORE I died?

    2. How could I be disappointed AFTER death
    if there is nothing? (as you and so many others are hoping).

    Also, you can't prove the Bible to be untrue and how do you know your literature is true?

  20. #20
    International jon1959's Avatar
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    Re: "Science is not perfect but it trumps faith and belief all the time" - true or false?

    Quote Originally Posted by truthpaste View Post
    When you have something to add then add it, the fact that you are shipwrecked on the same vessel as Sludge with no evidence for your chosen world view isn't my fault. Your passions obviously lie elsewhere as your posts indicate. I don't go arguing politics with you and others and neither do your thoughts on that subject bother me, so why does this subject bother you?
    I don't think I'm bothered at all.

    You asked if anyone could help Sludge out - and I replied to say he doesn't need help (not on this subject anyway: when it comes to coalition governments or heavy metal he clearly needs a lot of help).

    But you (with a little bit of help from Gofer - who adopts a very different approach even if he shares some of your core beliefs) have carpet bombed the Alt Board in the past 8 months with your religion, or faith, or ministry, or whatever you call it.

    It is hard to avoid - and hijacks endless threads. You want a reaction, but when you get one you complain that the reaction doesn't conform to your reference points or language. Tough.

    I remember discussions around faith on this board many years ago - but they were not so strident and swivel eyed. As a side issue or as a philosophical conversation they can be interesting.

    I said in the past that I rejected Christianity aged 12 as part of the Congregationalist Church membership process (most others in my group became Church members after a summer of discussions led by the minister). My Gran was a denominational tourist in Cardiff (Congregationalist to Methodist to Baptist) and we had endless conversations about her faith and what I had just read in the Communist Manifesto! Most of my family considered themselves as non-conformist Christians, but gave little thought to it - they just liked the social familiarity of people, place and ritual.

    My dad was a deep thinker who was very active in the Church until he died - but was hostile to organised religion, regarded himself as a Christian but didn't (I think) believe in God or the Devil, heaven or hell. He used what he saw as 'Christs's teachings' as a moral code for life on earth now. We argued about politics and religion all my life - and enjoyed the argument. He was part of a group who called themselves 'The Heretics' and were always at odds with the minister. One of their close friends and a church member was Professor John Davies who was deputy to Bernard Lovell at Jodrell Bank Observatory. He led discussion groups at the church on relativity, space/time and black holes! I think (as an astronomer) he shared my dad's world view. I have also been influenced by Jewish and Islamic friends over the years - many of whom have a cultural affinity to their inherited religion but few accept the religious side.

    We live in a corner of northern Europe with a cultural legacy of 16 centuries or more of Christianity that was all pervasive up to a couple of generations ago, and exposure more recently to other faiths and cultures. Of course it is part of us and part of our lives. But we don't have to accept the baggage that comes from an accident of birth - of time, of place and of circumstances. We can think for ourselves and adopt our own questions and standards of evidence, using our lifetime of experience to decide if we need a supernatural answer to those questions, or can use our best understanding of science and nature to reach conclusions. I go with the latter. Nothing else makes sense to me.

    That is all I have to add.

  21. #21

    Re: "Science is not perfect but it trumps faith and belief all the time" - true or false?

    I thought this thread was going to be about Dr Fauci admitting the 6 foot social distancing rule was a load of made-up bollux. Anyway, please carry on

  22. #22

    Re: "Science is not perfect but it trumps faith and belief all the time" - true or false?

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    I do not want you to gather things so we can have a conversation

    I have provided simple evidence of scientific facts

    Now I would like you to provide evidence that God is here and with us in the present .......he's omnipresent and omnipotent according to Christians

    We can deal with past evidence and the future such as the afterlife later

    But the first bridge to cross is for you to provide evidence that God exists

    Quotes from the Bible are not evidence
    This conversation has been created to allow you a platform to explain WHY science trumps God's explanation of everything. So far you have offered the evidence such as drinking washing up liquid is scientifically proven to be a bad idea??

    Also what you've ignored is that the bits of science that have persuaded you that God may not be the Creator of all things that are complete guesswork! Which is why scientists have wasted over $13 billion (so far) on CERN, with an annual ongoing cost of $5.5 billion a year!

    Furthermore the idea of evolution has no solid (observable) evidence unlike your fire/ paper, drinking soap or any other proven fact!

    So without you offering one shred of proven evidence for the origin of the universe or the origin of mankind, you put your faith in certain scientists that have sold you their guesswork, yet you turn on God (and anyone who would dare to believe Him) who'se written evidence has been proven true time and time again via history, *archaeology (see below) and many other sciences.

    * The Tel Dan Inscription: The First Historical Evidence of King David from the Bible

  23. #23

    Re: "Science is not perfect but it trumps faith and belief all the time" - true or false?

    If the Bible contains wisdom it’s just one of many potential sources.

    Sam Harris’s Waking Up App for example is packed full of ancient and modern insights into how to live a good life. With no religious beliefs required.

    I’d suggest people just use what’s helpful for them.

  24. #24

    Re: "Science is not perfect but it trumps faith and belief all the time" - true or false?

    I believe its certainly not ok to sell your Daughter into slavery. Definitely dont need science for that one.

  25. #25

    Re: "Science is not perfect but it trumps faith and belief all the time" - true or false?

    Quote Originally Posted by Baloo View Post
    If the Bible contains wisdom it’s just one of many potential sources.

    Sam Harris’s Waking Up App for example is packed full of ancient and modern insights into how to live a good life. With no religious beliefs required.

    I’d suggest people just use what’s helpful for them.
    Sam Harris letters to a Christian Nation great read

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