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Thread: PM blames the west for "provoking" Russia's attack on Ukraine.

  1. #1

    PM blames the west for "provoking" Russia's attack on Ukraine.

    Oh hang on, I'm told that, in fact, Nigel Farage is not the Prime Minister - I assumed he was because of all of the media coverage he gets, turns out his party don't even have a single MP at the moment.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cldd44zv3kpo

    Daresay he'll have a few on here agreeing with him.

  2. #2

    Re: PM blames the west for "provoking" Russia's attack on Ukraine.

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Oh hang on, I'm told that, in fact, Nigel Farage is not the Prime Minister - I assumed he was because of all of the media coverage he gets, turns out his party don't even have a single MP at the moment.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cldd44zv3kpo

    Daresay he'll have a few on here agreeing with him.
    Probably the same idiots who argued against us helping the U.S. killing 500,000 Iraqis, similar numbers in Libya, toppling 2 stable regimes which are now basket cases of countries, and believe Ukraine was bombing the Donbas well before the Russian invasion..

  3. #3

    Re: PM blames the west for "provoking" Russia's attack on Ukraine.

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Oh hang on, I'm told that, in fact, Nigel Farage is not the Prime Minister - I assumed he was because of all of the media coverage he gets, turns out his party don't even have a single MP at the moment.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cldd44zv3kpo

    Daresay he'll have a few on here agreeing with him.
    I'm surprised they didn't put this part in bold red capitalised letters with an XL font! They did give the sentence it's own paragraph though.

    "Every vote for Farage is celebrated in Moscow!"

  4. #4

    Re: PM blames the west for "provoking" Russia's attack on Ukraine.

    Probably true for Trump too

  5. #5

    Re: PM blames the west for "provoking" Russia's attack on Ukraine.

    Did Ukraine have a vote on joining the EU?

  6. #6

    Re: PM blames the west for "provoking" Russia's attack on Ukraine.

    Quote Originally Posted by pipster View Post
    Did Ukraine have a vote on joining the EU?
    No. Some countries know what’s good for them without needing to ask the public. Look where it got us.

  7. #7

    Re: PM blames the west for "provoking" Russia's attack on Ukraine.

    Quote Originally Posted by pipster View Post
    Did Ukraine have a vote on joining the EU?
    They no longer have a democracy so how can they vote?

  8. #8

    Re: PM blames the west for "provoking" Russia's attack on Ukraine.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euro...20EU%20deal%22.

    Looks like they started negotiations to get into bed with the EU back in 2013, when did Russia move into Crimea, I think it was around 2014/15
    They obviously did this for a reason, they didn’t want an EU nation on their doorstep or even a possible future nato member.
    I vaguely remember the previous Ukrainian PM getting criticism for being a Russian stooge, then getting kicked out etc
    And now we havre a Ukraine split in 2. A Russian invasion and a ruined Ukraine. If they had just stayed an independent country and not aligned to the EU we probably wouldn’t be in the situation we find ourselves in today. Russia probably want all the buffer countries to be like this rather than aligning with the EU

  9. #9

    Re: PM blames the west for "provoking" Russia's attack on Ukraine.

    Quote Originally Posted by pipster View Post
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euro...20EU%20deal%22.

    Looks like they started negotiations to get into bed with the EU back in 2013, when did Russia move into Crimea, I think it was around 2014/15
    They obviously did this for a reason, they didn’t want an EU nation on their doorstep or even a possible future nato member.
    I vaguely remember the previous Ukrainian PM getting criticism for being a Russian stooge, then getting kicked out etc
    And now we havre an Ukraine split in 2. A Russian invasion and a ruined Ukraine. If they had just stayed an independent country and not aligned to the EU we probably wouldn’t be in the situation we find ourselves in today. Russia probably want all the buffer countries to be like this rather than aligning with the EU
    Not a smart move by Putin. Now he has NATO countries on his door all the way to the Baltic and beyond.

  10. #10

    Re: PM blames the west for "provoking" Russia's attack on Ukraine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Blue View Post
    Not a smart move by Putin. Now he has NATO countries on his door all the way to the Baltic and beyond.
    Can you verify your source just like can you verify western media outlets views on the “conflict”

  11. #11
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    Re: PM blames the west for "provoking" Russia's attack on Ukraine.

    Quote Originally Posted by pipster View Post
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euro...20EU%20deal%22.

    Looks like they started negotiations to get into bed with the EU back in 2013, when did Russia move into Crimea, I think it was around 2014/15
    They obviously did this for a reason, they didn’t want an EU nation on their doorstep or even a possible future nato member.
    I vaguely remember the previous Ukrainian PM getting criticism for being a Russian stooge, then getting kicked out etc
    And now we havre a Ukraine split in 2. A Russian invasion and a ruined Ukraine. If they had just stayed an independent country and not aligned to the EU we probably wouldn’t be in the situation we find ourselves in today. Russia probably want all the buffer countries to be like this rather than aligning with the EU
    How dare the Ukraine exercise self-determination. It should do what's best for its neighbours, not itself.

  12. #12

    Re: PM blames the west for "provoking" Russia's attack on Ukraine.

    Farage is on the run now

    He's got a big interview in the torygraph tomorrow saying the invasion of Ukraine was disgusting , immoral and shameful !

    Much like Nigel

  13. #13

    Re: PM blames the west for "provoking" Russia's attack on Ukraine.

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    Farage is on the run now

    He's got a big interview in the torygraph tomorrow saying the invasion of Ukraine was disgusting , immoral and shameful !

    Much like Nigel
    Our Nige might have shot himself in the foot with that comment. Not even your most rabid racist, selfish Anglophile appreciates someone who gets a hard on thinking about Vlad.

  14. #14

    Re: PM blames the west for "provoking" Russia's attack on Ukraine.

    Sounds like Farage has gone all Corbyn , SNP , Kier, Russian sympathisers

  15. #15

    Re: PM blames the west for "provoking" Russia's attack on Ukraine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dorcus View Post
    Our Nige might have shot himself in the foot with that comment. Not even your most rabid racist, selfish Anglophile appreciates someone who gets a hard on thinking about Vlad.
    Can you not the similarity between what Russia has done in it's reaction to Ukraine being more aligned with the West and how the USA reacted in the bay of pigs ? - when Russia wanted to place nuclear weapons in Cuba - and the USA reacted accordingly..

  16. #16

    Re: PM blames the west for "provoking" Russia's attack on Ukraine.

    Can anyone actually find a quote where he uses the word 'provoked'?

  17. #17

    Re: PM blames the west for "provoking" Russia's attack on Ukraine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie View Post
    Can anyone actually find a quote where he uses the word 'provoked'?
    It’s there in the eleventh para of the linked BBC piece.

  18. #18

    Re: PM blames the west for "provoking" Russia's attack on Ukraine.

    Quote Originally Posted by az city View Post
    How dare the Ukraine exercise self-determination. It should do what's best for its neighbours, not itself.
    Shocking isn’t it, there’s no point us or Scotland pursuing independence because it’ll only prompt an invasion by England and there’ll be some on here arguing they’d be right to do so because we had provoked them into it.

  19. #19

    Re: PM blames the west for "provoking" Russia's attack on Ukraine.

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Shocking isn’t it, there’s no point us or Scotland pursuing independence because it’ll only prompt an invasion by England and there’ll be some on here arguing they’d be right to do so because we had provoked them into it.
    https://x.com/ricwe123/status/180454...LhmySD2aRt-GNg

    December 2013 John McCain, live from Kyiv,tells CNN the US delegation in Ukraine is seeking to "bring about" a "transition" in the country(remove the government)

    Declares how "pleased" he is that Victoria Nuland is with him on the scene, attempting to achieve this goal....

  20. #20

    Re: PM blames the west for "provoking" Russia's attack on Ukraine.

    Provoked is absolutely the wrong word and only one person is to blame - Putin. There is essentially zero moral justification for his war. The only remotely just part of his argument (that ethnic Russians were being abused in eastern Ukraine) is very flimsy and not justification for what he's done. So, it is all on Putin.

    But. In the land of Realpolitik, there are still reasons for things happening. Just like Germany starting WW2 is entirely unjustified, it doesn't mean we ignore the treaty of Versailles which many Germans cite as a reason for grievance. Likewise, many on here have correctly argued that the Israel/Palestine situation did not start on October 7th.

    So Farages wording was wrong, but in explaining what happened and why he is essentially right. Putin is a maniacal paranoid tyrant but he likely did feel threatened.

  21. #21

    Re: PM blames the west for "provoking" Russia's attack on Ukraine.

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesWales View Post
    Provoked is absolutely the wrong word and only one person is to blame - Putin. There is essentially zero moral justification for his war. The only remotely just part of his argument (that ethnic Russians were being abused in eastern Ukraine) is very flimsy and not justification for what he's done. So, it is all on Putin.

    But. In the land of Realpolitik, there are still reasons for things happening. Just like Germany starting WW2 is entirely unjustified, it doesn't mean we ignore the treaty of Versailles which many Germans cite as a reason for grievance. Likewise, many on here have correctly argued that the Israel/Palestine situation did not start on October 7th.

    So Farages wording was wrong, but in explaining what happened and why he is essentially right. Putin is a maniacal paranoid tyrant but he likely did feel threatened.
    Yeah I don't have a massive issue with what farage has said here, other than strategically its stupid because it's so easy to jump on.

    It draws some parallels to Israel/Gaza to me as well in a sense. In the aftermath of 7th Oct, the political class was unanimously giving Israel a blank cheque to do whatever they wanted. The reality is that things we do/support/contribute to have real consequences, usually for other people.

    That isn't to say that now we are here, Ukraine should just hand over territory to appease Putin (for now) but to pretend that the world is just some kind of binary evil Vs good is just plain delusional.

  22. #22

    Re: PM blames the west for "provoking" Russia's attack on Ukraine.

    I disagree that Farage is a Putin fan. What he was saying is the expansion of NATO enabled the latter to justify his war on Ukraine to his fellow Russian citizens. I don't see how anyone can argue against that.

  23. #23
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    Re: PM blames the west for "provoking" Russia's attack on Ukraine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gofer Blue View Post
    I disagree that Farage is a Putin fan. What he was saying is the expansion of NATO enabled the latter to justify his war on Ukraine to his fellow Russian citizens. I don't see how anyone can argue against that.
    He is certainly a Putin fan:

    https://www.itv.com/news/update/2014...n-as-a-leader/

    He may not want to share a fag and a pint with Putin, and he may not agree with all of Putin's mafia and crony capitalist policies (or claims he doesn't) but he rates him as the top political operator around at the moment.

    Farage also loves Trump. And Trump has had a bromance and political collaboration with Putin for a decade.

  24. #24

    Re: PM blames the west for "provoking" Russia's attack on Ukraine.

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    He is certainly a Putin fan:

    https://www.itv.com/news/update/2014...n-as-a-leader/

    He may not want to share a fag and a pint with Putin, and he may not agree with all of Putin's mafia and crony capitalist policies (or claims he doesn't) but he rates him as the top political operator around at the moment.

    Farage also loves Trump. And Trump has had a bromance and political collaboration with Putin for a decade.
    Your man Corbyn was prone to the same Russian love in for more than a decade .

  25. #25

    Re: PM blames the west for "provoking" Russia's attack on Ukraine.

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    He is certainly a Putin fan:

    https://www.itv.com/news/update/2014...n-as-a-leader/

    He may not want to share a fag and a pint with Putin, and he may not agree with all of Putin's mafia and crony capitalist policies (or claims he doesn't) but he rates him as the top political operator around at the moment.

    Farage also loves Trump. And Trump has had a bromance and political collaboration with Putin for a decade.
    Saying Putin is a shrewd political operator is not the same as being a fan.

    Do you not think Putin is a shrewd politician?

    Do you disagree that he has used the NATO "threat" to justify the war in Ukraine by convincing the Russian people that "they are coming to get us"?

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