Why does Islam fit in so comfortably with modern left wing views?

[Wash DC Blue]

It’s a massive elephant in the room.
Christianity seems to be fair game to be shit on. Islam however seems to me to get a free pass.

Are people scared to speak out like Salman Rushdie did or is it a comfortable bedfellow right now to destabilise Western Culture…similar to the Western support of the Mujaheddin in the 80’s

Obviously we need to take in the Islamic views on homosexuality and women’s rights (although they seem to be less important now with the trans movement). Let’s not go all strawman talking about abortion in the US or Palestine as they are different topics.

I’m just curious how progressiveness in the West and Islam are such easy bedfellows considering that their views are so diametrically opposite?

[Hilts]

This forum still barking mad I see.🤣

[Wash DC Blue]

This forum still barking mad I see.🤣

How is such a view mad?

Ignoring what Islam really is, is mad.
Particularly when its ethos is so contrary to progressiveness.

If you disagree with this, tell me why rather than saying it’s mad.
It would be nice to get back to a time where we could have intellectual debates and either agree to disagree…or in this instance, I could maybe cede my point and acknowledge that I am wrong and ultimately change my view.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

How is such a view mad?

Ignoring what Islam really is, is mad.
Particularly when its ethos is so contrary to progressiveness.

If you disagree with this, tell me why rather than saying it’s mad.
It would be nice to get back to a time where we could have intellectual debates and either agree to disagree…or in this instance, I could maybe cede my point and acknowledge that I am wrong and ultimately change my view.

I think all religion is absolutely crazy and the cause of almost all conflict worldwide

Religious Wars
Barbaric Laws
Bloodshed worldwide over what's left of his myth

Dead Kennedys




The Jewish state of Israel is proving over the last few days that it's version of the truth and it's God is better than Islam

Of course people will say this is about territory but its not , it's about God, faith and who said what in silly old books thousands of years old

The point I am making I suppose is a plague on all of them !

[Wash DC Blue]

I love the DK’s

Too Drunk To F**k, Nazi Punks F**k Off.
I actually think that California Uber Alles is incredibly pertinent now.

My point being though is that not all religions are treated equally by many and that Islam sits so freely amongst those of with a progressive view.

Does it come from the ubiquitous and horrendous P*ki bashing views of pricks in the 70’s and 80’s that gives it a free pass?

You can have the utmost disdain about religion full stop, but Islam gets does seem to me to get free press when it is demonstrably more dangerous and repressive than other mainstream religions (cults excluded of course).

Christopher Hitchens spoke about it a lot before he died…there again he supported Bush Jr’s war against Iraq.

I consider myself to a bit of a rubbish Christian that doesn’t go to church and doesn’t know that much about the Bible.
I believe in live and let live and no man made scripture will make me think any different.

Again, to me Islam seems to me to promote incredibly dogmatic and highly regressive views, yet it tends to sit more comfortably with those with progressive views than Christianity does.

Hence me asking really, are people scared to call it out or is it a tool to be used in a fight against the west by Post Modernists?

[truthpaste]

I love the DK’s

Too Drunk To F**k, Nazi Punks F**k Off.
I actually think that California Uber Alles is incredibly pertinent now.

My point being though is that not all religions are treated equally by many and that Islam sits so freely amongst those of with a progressive view.

Does it come from the ubiquitous and horrendous P*ki bashing views of pricks in the 70’s and 80’s that gives it a free pass?

You can have the utmost disdain about religion full stop, but Islam gets does seem to me to get free press when it is demonstrably more dangerous and repressive than other mainstream religions (cults excluded of course).

Christopher Hitchens spoke about it a lot before he died…there again he supported Bush Jr’s war against Iraq.

I consider myself to a bit of a rubbish Christian that doesn’t go to church and doesn’t know that much about the Bible.
I believe in live and let live and no man made scripture will make me think any different.

Again, to me Islam seems to me to promote incredibly dogmatic and highly regressive views, yet it tends to sit more comfortably with those with progressive views than Christianity does.

Hence me asking really, are people scared to call it out or is it a tool to be used in a fight against the west by Post Modernists?

Have you watched Hitchens debate *Lennox, an individual who *has read the Bible and has comfortably dealt with the biggest names in the atheistic realm, including Dawkins. >>

10 Minutes of Hitchens v Lennox

[Citizen's Nephew]

Criticism of Christianity may appear more socially acceptable due to its dominant role in Western history, while Islam can be more cautiously addressed, partly due to fear of backlash or accusations of Islamophobia.

The Rushdie example highlights the risks of critiquing Islam, as does the hesitation in addressing Islamic views on women's rights and LGBTQ+ issues.

The uneasy alliance between progressive values and Islamic perspectives might stem from a broader desire to promote multiculturalism and combat perceived Western imperialism, even if it involves contradictions.

I do understand the need for this to be questioned though. I think the 'another' elephant in the room is the promotion of Zionism and the notion that any critique is antisemitic. The support of Israel by the UK and US will play a huge part in this complex situation. It's worth noting that many Christians are afraid of speaking out against Israel.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-...zas-christians

[stevo]

I just think left leaning people generally tend to be a bit more liberal minded.

[JamesWales]

I just think left leaning people generally tend to be a bit more liberal minded.

Not entirely sure that's true, but for the same of argument, if it is, doesn't that make it all the more confusing? Because the prevailing interpretation of Islam isnt a particularly liberal version is it?

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Not entirely sure that's true, but for the same of argument, if it is, doesn't that make it all the more confusing? Because the prevailing interpretation of Islam isnt a particularly liberal version is it?

What about the extreme expansionist Israeli regime based on Judaism that's being pushed in the middle east at the moment ?

The boot is firmly on one foot over there at the moment and the majority of bloodshed is not being carried out in the name of Islam

[Wash DC Blue]

Criticism of Christianity may appear more socially acceptable due to its dominant role in Western history, while Islam can be more cautiously addressed, partly due to fear of backlash or accusations of Islamophobia.

The Rushdie example highlights the risks of critiquing Islam, as does the hesitation in addressing Islamic views on women's rights and LGBTQ+ issues.

The uneasy alliance between progressive values and Islamic perspectives might stem from a broader desire to promote multiculturalism and combat perceived Western imperialism, even if it involves contradictions.

I do understand the need for this to be questioned though. I think the 'another' elephant in the room is the promotion of Zionism and the notion that any critique is antisemitic. The support of Israel by the UK and US will play a huge part in this complex situation. It's worth noting that many Christians are afraid of speaking out against Israel.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-...zas-christians

Thanks for such a well considered response and for the link.
I appreciate it!

[Wash DC Blue]

I just think left leaning people generally tend to be a bit more liberal minded.

Yet Islam is quite illiberal in my opinion.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Yet Islam is quite illiberal in my opinion.

And the Jewish faith propping up Israel ?

More bombing this evening by Netanyahu

[jon1959]

I don’t think the premise of the thread is accurate at all.

From my personal experience and the limited stuff I see on MSM, social media and from friends who share my basic (left wing) view if life, there is no comfortable fit with Islam. Very little with the various strands of Christianity either. Or Judaism, or Hinduism, or even Buddhism.

There are well meaning followers of all those faiths or beliefs, and some very brave and progressive representatives (especially many advocates for peace and some form of justice, and the liberation theology heroes and heroines from Latin America) but they all have belief systems that are at odds with my understanding of ‘left wing views’.

Many are not well meaning. They are oppressive, intolerant and violent. That includes representatives of all the Abrahamic faiths (focussed on Israel/Palestine and the wider region), the Hindu nationalist movement that echoes fascism under Modi and the warped Buddhism of the Myanmar junta and its genocidal oppression of the Muslim minority. Secular ruling castes like that in China can be equally oppressive.

There is sometimes an outbreak of ‘my enemy’s enemy is my friend’ which I think George Galloway has been guilty of - but that is not common in my experience on the left. Many on the left have defended victims of Islamophobia as they have of antisemitism or other racist attacks. Many on the left have Muslim and Christian and Jewish friends (I have - and a Buddhist brother). Many have marched and organised with practicing Muslims to show solidarity with victims of Israeli, American, German and British bombs.

That doesn’t mean embracing Islam. It might mean trying to understand the origins and history of the faith more - and not rely on the actions or representations of the most reactionary representatives. Islamic religious tolerance and scientific advances were in stark contrast to medieval Catholic thinking, but the modern Iranian regime is more brutal, backward and intolerant than most of ‘the West’. Not all though - as evidenced by the words and actions of some extreme Christians in the USA and west Africa, and the fascistic elements of the Netanyahu coalition in Israel.

Most people on the left are defenders of women’s rights, gay rights and labour rights. Where a religion or governing ideology clashes with those there is no comfortable fit. In my experience anyway.

[North Cardiff Blue]

I think all religion is absolutely crazy and the cause of almost all conflict worldwide

Religious Wars
Barbaric Laws
Bloodshed worldwide over what's left of his myth

Dead Kennedys




The Jewish state of Israel is proving over the last few days that it's version of the truth and it's God is better than Islam

Of course people will say this is about territory but its not , it's about God, faith and who said what in silly old books thousands of years old

The point I am making I suppose is a plague on all of them !

They've been poking the bear, what do they expect?

[Eric the Half a Bee]

I just think left leaning people generally tend to be a bit more liberal minded.

Well, it's been proven that people with higher IQs are more likely to be left wing.

[Harry Paget Flashman]

I don’t think the premise of the thread is accurate at all.

From my personal experience and the limited stuff I see on MSM, social media and from friends who share my basic (left wing) view if life, there is no comfortable fit with Islam. Very little with the various strands of Christianity either. Or Judaism, or Hinduism, or even Buddhism.

There are well meaning followers of all those faiths or beliefs, and some very brave and progressive representatives (especially many advocates for peace and some form of justice, and the liberation theology heroes and heroines from Latin America) but they all have belief systems that are at odds with my understanding of ‘left wing views’.

Many are not well meaning. They are oppressive, intolerant and violent. That includes representatives of all the Abrahamic faiths (focussed on Israel/Palestine and the wider region), the Hindu nationalist movement that echoes fascism under Modi and the warped Buddhism of the Myanmar junta and its genocidal oppression of the Muslim minority. Secular ruling castes like that in China can be equally oppressive.

There is sometimes an outbreak of ‘my enemy’s enemy is my friend’ which I think George Galloway has been guilty of - but that is not common in my experience on the left. Many on the left have defended victims of Islamophobia as they have of antisemitism or other racist attacks. Many on the left have Muslim and Christian and Jewish friends (I have - and a Buddhist brother). Many have marched and organised with practicing Muslims to show solidarity with victims of Israeli, American, German and British bombs.

That doesn’t mean embracing Islam. It might mean trying to understand the origins and history of the faith more - and not rely on the actions or representations of the most reactionary representatives. Islamic religious tolerance and scientific advances were in stark contrast to medieval Catholic thinking, but the modern Iranian regime is more brutal, backward and intolerant than most of ‘the West’. Not all though - as evidenced by the words and actions of some extreme Christians in the USA and west Africa, and the fascistic elements of the Netanyahu coalition in Israel.

Most people on the left are defenders of women’s rights, gay rights and labour rights. Where a religion or governing ideology clashes with those there is no comfortable fit. In my experience anyway.

This times ten.

[stevo]

Well, it's been proven that people with higher IQs are more likely to be left wing.

They’re also less likely to conflate Muslims with terrorists.

[JamesWales]

I don’t think the premise of the thread is accurate at all.

From my personal experience and the limited stuff I see on MSM, social media and from friends who share my basic (left wing) view if life, there is no comfortable fit with Islam. Very little with the various strands of Christianity either. Or Judaism, or Hinduism, or even Buddhism.

There are well meaning followers of all those faiths or beliefs, and some very brave and progressive representatives (especially many advocates for peace and some form of justice, and the liberation theology heroes and heroines from Latin America) but they all have belief systems that are at odds with my understanding of ‘left wing views’.

Many are not well meaning. They are oppressive, intolerant and violent. That includes representatives of all the Abrahamic faiths (focussed on Israel/Palestine and the wider region), the Hindu nationalist movement that echoes fascism under Modi and the warped Buddhism of the Myanmar junta and its genocidal oppression of the Muslim minority. Secular ruling castes like that in China can be equally oppressive.

There is sometimes an outbreak of ‘my enemy’s enemy is my friend’ which I think George Galloway has been guilty of - but that is not common in my experience on the left. Many on the left have defended victims of Islamophobia as they have of antisemitism or other racist attacks. Many on the left have Muslim and Christian and Jewish friends (I have - and a Buddhist brother). Many have marched and organised with practicing Muslims to show solidarity with victims of Israeli, American, German and British bombs.

That doesn’t mean embracing Islam. It might mean trying to understand the origins and history of the faith more - and not rely on the actions or representations of the most reactionary representatives. Islamic religious tolerance and scientific advances were in stark contrast to medieval Catholic thinking, but the modern Iranian regime is more brutal, backward and intolerant than most of ‘the West’. Not all though - as evidenced by the words and actions of some extreme Christians in the USA and west Africa, and the fascistic elements of the Netanyahu coalition in Israel.

Most people on the left are defenders of women’s rights, gay rights and labour rights. Where a religion or governing ideology clashes with those there is no comfortable fit. In my experience anyway.

I think the last sentence cuts across the political spectrum tbh, although they certainly are things that the left has often rightly championed.

But that does go far far quieter if when the oppressor of gay, women's or labour rights come from the Muslim faith, no?

Remember the Muslim protests in Birmingham against LGBT teaching in schools a few years back? There was nothing like the condimentation that there would have been if it was 'right wing christians' for example.

It is a bit of an elephant in the room in my opinion, but political ideologies are always coalitions of opinions with loads of contradictions, but I would say this is one.

[Gofer Blue]

Criticism of Christianity may appear more socially acceptable due to its dominant role in Western history, while Islam can be more cautiously addressed, partly due to fear of backlash or accusations of Islamophobia.

The Rushdie example highlights the risks of critiquing Islam, as does the hesitation in addressing Islamic views on women's rights and LGBTQ+ issues.

The uneasy alliance between progressive values and Islamic perspectives might stem from a broader desire to promote multiculturalism and combat perceived Western imperialism, even if it involves contradictions.

I do understand the need for this to be questioned though. I think the 'another' elephant in the room is the promotion of Zionism and the notion that any critique is antisemitic. The support of Israel by the UK and US will play a huge part in this complex situation. It's worth noting that many Christians are afraid of speaking out against Israel.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-...zas-christians

Interesting that we never hear charges of Christophobia being brought.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Well, it's been proven that people with higher IQs are more likely to be left wing.

And not religious

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

I think the last sentence cuts across the political spectrum tbh, although they certainly are things that the left has often rightly championed.

But that does go far far quieter if when the oppressor of gay, women's or labour rights come from the Muslim faith, no?

Remember the Muslim protests in Birmingham against LGBT teaching in schools a few years back? There was nothing like the condimentation that there would have been if it was 'right wing christians' for example.

It is a bit of an elephant in the room in my opinion, but political ideologies are always coalitions of opinions with loads of contradictions, but I would say this is one.

There was loads of support for the school and the teacher involved in that lgbt protest and plenty of Muslim parents backed the school and the teacher 🙄

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Interesting that we never hear charges of Christophobia being brought.

There are lots of Christians who complain they are discriminated against

Often when they oppose abortion or quite ridiculously also oppose women in the priesthood

I think islamaphobia is a stupid term as is christophobia in fact it's all stupid

[truthpaste]

There are lots of Christians who complain they are discriminated against

Often when they oppose abortion or quite ridiculously also oppose women in the priesthood

I think islamaphobia is a stupid term as is christophobia in fact it's all stupid

Incorrect, as real Christians already know they will always get opposition from religious individuals and agnostics, so why would they complain?

[North Cardiff Blue]

Well, it's been proven that people with higher IQs are more likely to be left wing.

Think they are maybe