How do Labour voters feel about the party at the moment?

[Eric the Half a Bee]

To begin - I haven't always voted them, but I'm not on the political right (if you've not already spotted that).

I didn't vote for them at the last election as I didn't like their lurch to the right. However, Labour seems to have completely lost the plot and it seems like they're trying to play Reform at their game. That's never been what Labour is about. Labour should always be about aiming for greater fairness for those at the bottom.

So, with Keir Starmer now getting tough on the disabled and proposing DWP changes that, if the Tories had implemented, would have been vilified, do Labour voters still think "at least we got rid of the Tories"? Conversely, do Tory and Reform voters agree with these things or are they wrong because they're Labour initiatives?

Politics is getting very weird.

[jon1959]

To begin - I haven't always voted them, but I'm not on the political right (if you've not already spotted that).

I didn't vote for them at the last election as I didn't like their lurch to the right. However, Labour seems to have completely lost the plot and it seems like they're trying to play Reform at their game. That's never been what Labour is about. Labour should always be about aiming for greater fairness for those at the bottom.

So, with Keir Starmer now getting tough on the disabled and proposing DWP changes that, if the Tories had implemented, would have been vilified, do Labour voters still think "at least we got rid of the Tories"? Conversely, do Tory and Reform voters agree with these things or are they wrong because they're Labour initiatives?

Politics is getting very weird.

I voted Labour at the last GE - reluctantly.

I have usually voted Labour in other elections too - though also (if rarely) voted Green, Independent Socialist, WEP and once Communist in a Bristol local election where the candidate (Andy Chester - the name stuck) seemed more Lib Dem than Tankie or Euro Com: he had a four page duplicated manifesto and three pages were on potholes!

Labour has always had a dominant right wing leadership (apart from the brief Corbyn years) and a permanent right wing apparatus (even under Corbyn). But I have always regarded the current party policy platform and the leadership as transitory and capable of being changed from below.

The permanent feature of the Labour Party was an organic link to organised labour and an active membership in which socialists were a prominent part. For me that meant there was always the possibility of dragging the party back from reactionary positions from the inside. Labour was different from other parties without roots - where the personality of the leader and the policies of the day were the only things to define them. Even the Tories (despite their clear ideological stance) didn't have organisational/financial links of the sort Labour had.

I think that has now changed. Labour under Starmer (completing the work of Blair) has reduced the organisational links to almost an irrelevance. From a mass activist party under Corbyn of 600k + funded by individual donations and trade union contributions it is now a passive party of under 300k funded by large business and lobbyist donations where the membership are ignored, purged or driven out and trades unions are at best a secondary source of funding. Starmer has taken the party sharply to the right and there is no real internal mechanism left for members to challenge that.

Labour has become the Lib Dems, but more to the right and without any of the charisma of the bungee jumping Yellow leader!

I like my MP - she is 'soft' Campaign Group. She sometimes goes missing, but is generally on the side of the political angels and does a lot of hard constituency work. That helped to tip it for me last year. But no more. Next time I am voting Green!

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

I will vote Labour again if the alternative is a conservative reform government

I would vote for a tin of peas rather than a tory reform government

I don't care about wether I vote Labour, Lib dem , green or whatever as long as it keeps out the Tories or farage

As for Labour themselves they are hopeless and starmer , apart from his recent work regarding Ukraine is a dreadful , incompetent leader in charge of a useless bunch like rayner , Cooper and Reeves

They are all crap

But as crap as they are I would prefer 100 years of them than the Tories and reform

[Wales-Bales]

Everything is going according to plan and I did warn you. The problem is all MP's are screened and selected for obedience and ideology by Central HQ, so it's nothing more that a talking shop which allows the leadership to run amok. Better luck next time? Yeah, pull the other one.

[Wales-Bales]

I will vote Labour again if the alternative is a conservative reform government

I would vote for a tin of peas rather than a tory reform government

I don't care about wether I vote Labour, Lib dem , green or whatever as long as it keeps out the Tories or farage

As for Labour themselves they are hopeless and starmer , apart from his recent work regarding Ukraine is a dreadful , incompetent leader in charge of a useless bunch like rayner , Cooper and Reeves

They are all crap

But as crap as they are I would prefer 100 years of them than the Tories and reform

That's like choosing a partner because they abuse you less than the previous one did!

[Eric Cartman]

I'd imagine this thread was prompted by the benefits rhetoric of the last few days. As uncomfortable and unnatural as it might feel to be focusing on welfare, people who lean left do have to try to remain objective and be willing to move outside their comfort zone. Objectively the current trajectory in terms of welfare spending is unsustainable. The talking points might feel eerily similar to 2010 Tories but the situation is at least a bit different, since COVID we have seen a spike in working age people not working. The main problem with any solution is that we have a society where 'making work pay' as a principle doesn't work, too many jobs pay too little, that doesn't change overnight with the best will in the world. So you are left without a carrot and only holding a stick. The stick might end up hitting people who genuinely can't work and need to be supported.

In terms of the party, not sure really, are there things I would have liked them to do differently with hindsight, yep. Broadly speaking, are the saying things I agree with still, yep. Are they too timid and terrible at comms, yep.

Right now, it feels like the next election might be a bit like the last in the sense that labour cling on by default. Reform are currently eating themselves alive and Kemi is so obviously out of her depth its unfair. Trump and an isolationist USA alongside the potential of the lib dems becoming kingmaker at the next election is a wet dream for remainers who have clung onto any hope.

[Wales-Bales]

I'd imagine this thread was prompted by the benefits rhetoric of the last few days. As uncomfortable and unnatural as it might feel to be focusing on welfare, people who lean left do have to try to remain objective and be willing to move outside their comfort zone. Objectively the current trajectory in terms of welfare spending is unsustainable. The talking points might feel eerily similar to 2010 Tories but the situation is at least a bit different, since COVID we have seen a spike in working age people not working. The main problem with any solution is that we have a society where 'making work pay' as a principle doesn't work, too many jobs pay too little, that doesn't change overnight with the best will in the world. So you are left without a carrot and only holding a stick. The stick might end up hitting people who genuinely can't work and need to be supported.

In terms of the party, not sure really, are there things I would have liked them to do differently with hindsight, yep. Broadly speaking, are the saying things I agree with still, yep. Are they too timid and terrible at comms, yep.

Right now, it feels like the next election might be a bit like the last in the sense that labour cling on by default. Reform are currently eating themselves alive and Kemi is so obviously out of her depth its unfair. Trump and an isolationist USA alongside the potential of the lib dems becoming kingmaker at the next election is a wet dream for remainers who have clung onto any hope.

You didn't mention open borders and net zero, which have an impact on welfare and the economy.

[jon1959]

Everything is going according to plan and I did warn you. The problem is all MP's are screened and selected for obedience and ideology by Central HQ, so it's nothing more that a talking shop which allows the leadership to run amok. Better luck next time? Yeah, pull the other one.

It is one of the problems.

There has always been an element of that going on in Labour with some favoured candidates parachuted into safe seats at the expense of the local with a track record and roots. But that was the exception.

It is a complete selection stranglehold under Starmer. That is new.

It didn't happen this way under previous leaders (including Blair). Local parties had a high degree of autonomy, but no more.

[Eric Cartman]

You didn't mention open borders and net zero, which have an impact on welfare and the economy.

Not really forgotten, different.

Net Zero is clearly an opportunity we need to pick our way through. What's the alternative? Oil and gas forever?

'Open borders' as you have chosen to refer to it is an interesting one. The uncomfortable part is that there clearly is a level at which inward migration becomes a problem but that is really where it ends for me. One thing that people don't seem to acknowledge is that society is built around a ratio of economically active Vs economically inactive and radical changes are required if we are to move significantly away from that ratio, hence why a government who would have benefitted massively from 0 net migration decided to let record numbers in. The right is living in fantasy land when it comes to migration.

[JamesWales]

I've voted Labour more than any other party, although much less in recent years.

For me the party just don't represent working class people, or working people, or whatever you want to call it. I get that vibe constantly, whether it's their policies that seem to overlook the great body of struggling people or the way they talk and the things they talk about on social media etc.

I have been impressed with Keir Starmer as PM though. I think he is handling a tricky situation with Trump well and I think he is proving stronger than I thought.

In terms of their positions in government, they are just living the reality that being in power is much harder than being in opposition. They could whine about Rwanda in opposition and now they have to deal with the consequences.

They could whine about austerity in opposition and now they need to balance the books

They could mock the market reaction to Truss's budget in opposition and now they realize they have hammered themselves into their own coffin.

Let's be honest there is absolutely no difference between the Tories and Labour being in power is there? Absolutely nothing. If anything the economy was better and the rhetoric on benefits and the like less crass under the last lot.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

He's proved he's got the ability to lead and be statesman like on the big stage

Now he needs to start sacking the likes of yvette Cooper and Reeves

I would still get rid of him but at least he might have a fighting chance

Apart from Ukraine he has been pathetic as has his government

Talking about pathetic wtf is that announcement for the next assembly elections that all the constituencies are now in Welsh only ?

Bilingual is what we are as a nation

Welsh first then English ? .....I don't think anyone objects to that

Pathetic and even more stupid considering the election will increase the number of AMs from 60 to 96

If reform win a huge chunk of seats that's going to highly embarrassing, silly fools have shot themselves in the foot

[JamesWales]

The Welsh only names is very divisive in my opinion. I find it another example of them disrespecting Cardiffs working class industrial heritage.

You are gonna have tens of thousands of people who cannot even pronounce their own constituency, let alone feel an attachment to it.

[goats]

I’ve been quite surprised by Starmer lately, he seems to be handling the EU and Trump pretty well as a casual observation, good on him.
I can’t be arsed voting for any of them anymore, it makes no difference at all.

[Wales-Bales]

I’ve been quite surprised by Starmer lately, he seems to be handling the EU and Trump pretty well as a casual observation, good on him.
I can’t be arsed voting for any of them anymore, it makes no difference at all.

It could also be desperation.

[Heathblue]

I’ve been quite surprised by Starmer lately, he seems to be handling the EU and Trump pretty well as a casual observation, good on him.
I can’t be arsed voting for any of them anymore, it makes no difference at all.

He handled him so well that Trump has applied 25% steel and aluminium tariffs. Agree about your voting sentiment, there isn't a choice, Farage has been shown to be just a gatekeeper.
Starmer
KB
Farage

Fair play same shit different colour badge

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

He handled him so well that Trump has applied 25% steel and aluminium tariffs. Agree about your voting sentiment, there isn't a choice, Farage has been shown to be just a gatekeeper.
Starmer
KB
Farage

Fair play same shit different colour badge

There's a choice between the hopeless idiot in charge and a couple of far right fruitcakes

I will back the hopeless idiot until something better comes along

I am not voting for those two ctts

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

The Welsh only names is very divisive in my opinion. I find it another example of them disrespecting Cardiffs working class industrial heritage.

You are gonna have tens of thousands of people who cannot even pronounce their own constituency, let alone feel an attachment to it.

I think it's pathetic , stupid idiots

I would never have voted for the assembly in 1997 if this was going to be the outcome

If it wasn't for Welsh Labour we wouldn't have devolved power

Now the language fanatics are going to be shooting themselves in the foot

The Welsh language is going to survive by youngsters learning it at school and more being invested into Welsh learner courses and support

Changing the constituencies into Welsh only names is pathetic unless it's bilingual and do nothing to promote and preserve the language

It's pathetic and divisive

[Heathblue]

There's a choice between the hopeless idiot in charge and a couple of far right fruitcakes

I will back the hopeless idiot until something better comes along

I am not voting for those two ctts

"far right" I'm not sure what that means it has been seen to be applied to anyone who doesn't fall into line with the angry mob and has lost any impact that it was supposed to have, however, and as your post suggests you think the other two are far right, that must mean that based on current performance, that Starmer is far right so you would actually be voting far right, abolishing NHS England could arguably be the most "far right" policy ever suggested ?

[Wales-Bales]

"far right" I'm not sure what that means it has been seen to be applied to anyone who doesn't fall into line with the angry mob and has lost any impact that it was supposed to have, however, and as your post suggests you think the other two are far right, that must mean that based on current performance, that Starmer is far right so you would actually be voting far right, abolishing NHS England could arguably be the most "far right" policy ever suggested ?

Left ... Centrist ... Right ................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................................................... .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. Far Right

[Heathblue]

Left ... Centrist ... Right ................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................................................... .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. Far Right

I didn't sleep that well last night and with the mind wandering onto all sorts of topics, I kind of got to the opinion that of all the idiot politicians thats come an gone over the last decade or so, i was thinking positively towards Jeremy Dustbin and would welcome him back into the arena. I had no time for him during his pomp, but seeing the variety of wankers since him going has removed the veil.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

"far right" I'm not sure what that means it has been seen to be applied to anyone who doesn't fall into line with the angry mob and has lost any impact that it was supposed to have, however, and as your post suggests you think the other two are far right, that must mean that based on current performance, that Starmer is far right so you would actually be voting far right, abolishing NHS England could arguably be the most "far right" policy ever suggested ?

The right wing of the right wing tory party , reform

That's far right

It's not very complicated

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

I didn't sleep that well last night and with the mind wandering onto all sorts of topics, I kind of got to the opinion that of all the idiot politicians thats come an gone over the last decade or so, i was thinking positively towards Jeremy Dustbin and would welcome him back into the arena. I had no time for him during his pomp, but seeing the variety of wankers since him going has removed the veil.

Your ideal MP would be a mix of Trump , Farage , Musk , Putin and Corbyn

Absolutely potty the lot of them

[jon1959]

I didn't sleep that well last night and with the mind wandering onto all sorts of topics, I kind of got to the opinion that of all the idiot politicians thats come an gone over the last decade or so, i was thinking positively towards Jeremy Dustbin and would welcome him back into the arena. I had no time for him during his pomp, but seeing the variety of wankers since him going has removed the veil.

Corbyn may not be in the arena - but he hasn't gone away and is shouting through the arena railings.

There were many things to admire about him (his policies), and many things to despair about as well (his leadership of the civil war Labour Party).

But as a campaigner, and as an 'honest' and principled politician who never fiddled his expenses (a rare breed), he is very effective.

https://thecorbynproject.com

[Heathblue]

Corbyn may not be in the arena - but he hasn't gone away and is shouting through the arena railings.

There were many things to admire about him (his policies), and many things to despair about as well (his leadership of the civil war Labour Party).

But as a campaigner, and as an 'honest' and principled politician who never fiddled his expenses (a rare breed), he is very effective.

https://thecorbynproject.com

Bernie Sanders / Jeremy Corbyn partnership has to be preferable to Trump / Starmer doesn't it?
lots not to like about either of them but!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Corbyn may not be in the arena - but he hasn't gone away and is shouting through the arena railings.

There were many things to admire about him (his policies), and many things to despair about as well (his leadership of the civil war Labour Party).

But as a campaigner, and as an 'honest' and principled politician who never fiddled his expenses (a rare breed), he is very effective.

https://thecorbynproject.com

Great protesting MP but never going to be able to implement his ideas

The floaters are never going to vote for him