Taking The Knee To Continue ?

[Feedback]

These prussians........are we talking about the men who formed much of hitlers nazi elite and generals ?

Adolf Hitler , that GERMAN nazi ?

Sounds like these prussians were about as German as you can get 😉

Hitler was Austrian. Just saying

[Feedback]

Such a shame that Feedback could not explain to The King's German Legion (fought for the British against Napoleonic France 1803-15) that they didn't exist. They were disbanded in 1816 - a year after the formation of the German Confederation of German speaking states and 3 years before Marx was born.

But of course Feedback is right - national identity can only be defined against membership of a sovereign state. Which will also come as a big disappointment to many citizens of western Britain who believe (falsely according to Feedback) that they are Welsh!

Why can't I explain the Kings German legion? Hardly surprising the king raised a legion considering he was elector of Hannover.

You seem to be of the opinion that because the English language uses the roman cognomen for an inhabitant of Germania, that the inhabitants referred to this themselves.

Prior to confederation and even unification, the patchwork of states were fiercely independent and referred to themselves as saxon, prussian, bavarian and so on. They most certainly did not refer to themselves as German.

Even today bavarians do not necessarily see themselves as german.

[life on mars]

I love all Marcomanni, Alamanni, Franks, Anglos, Saxons, Vandals, Gepids, Ostrogoths, Visigoths, Alans, Burgundians, and Lombards.

Them germanics , certainly spewd it about .

Not sure if they were into taking the knee

[Feedback]

I love all Marcomanni, Alamanni, Franks, Anglos, Saxons, Vandals, Gepids, Ostrogoths, Visigoths, Alans, Burgundians, and Lombards.

Them germanics , certainly spewd it about .

Not sure if they were into taking the knee

You refer to the ingvaeonic and irminonic

[jon1959]

Why can't I explain the Kings German legion? Hardly surprising the king raised a legion considering he was elector of Hannover.

No - why can't you explain why it was called the German Legion if Germany didn't exist until 1871.

You seem to be of the opinion that because the English language uses the roman cognomen for an inhabitant of Germania, that the inhabitants referred to this themselves.

It was called the Deutscher Bund by the participants. I have used the English translation for your benefit. Please tell me 'Deutscher' doesn't translate as 'German'!

Prior to confederation and even unification, the patchwork of states were fiercely independent and referred to themselves as saxon, prussian, bavarian and so on. They most certainly did not refer to themselves as German.

You sure? Many of my neighbours insist they are Yorkshiremen and women. Regional and local identities occur everywhere - whether or not they are tied to a political border. As 'Germany' and 'German' have been used since the 10th century at least (maybe even the 2nd century) inside and outside what we think of as Germany, why are you so confident that the description wasn't used or understood at the time of Marx's birth? My understanding (from reading about the period) is that most people considered themselves to be German citizens of whatever state they came from - Prussia, Hesse, Saxony or whatever. Marx wrote about the Prussian state and the German people. Many posters on here think of themselves as Welsh citizens of the UK. Not a difficult or contentious view - and completely consistent with what NYCBlue wrote that got you off point scoring

Even today bavarians do not necessarily see themselves as german.

Which helpfully undermines all your earlier misconceived arguments and ends this little debate.

Thanks - I enjoyed that. Hard work but we got there in the end.

[Feedback]

Thanks - I enjoyed that. Hard work but we got there in the end.

You are misinformed.

The English language refers to the land as German and Germany from the Latin germania. In the German language "deutsche" has etymology in the teutonic knights, which stems from proto german for "people"...rather than deutsche being German language for German.

So whilst german/Germany may be used in the English language, these are not terms used by those speaking any of the varieties of the sprachraum.

Think of cymry/cymru. It doesn't mean welsh/Wales (which in saxon wealas was foreigner), but meant country/countrymen.

[jon1959]

You are misinformed.

The English language refers to the land as German and Germany from the Latin germania. In German "deutsche" has etymology in the teutonic knights, which stems from proto german for "people"...rather than deutsche being German language for German.

So whilst german may be used in the English language, these are not terms used by those speaking any of the varieties of the sprachraum.

So was the Young Germany movement (active from 1830-1850, Marx described them as the Young Germans) not about the political future of the German states? Was the tract published by Marx and Engels on German Ideology in 1846 something to do with 'the people' of central Europe and not about the states, ideologies and social organisation of the German states? You insisted that Marx was a Prussian (who became stateless) not a German. It is clear from his own writings that he considered himself to be a German.

[cyril evans awaydays]

You are misinformed.

The English language refers to the land as German and Germany from the Latin germania. In the German language "deutsche" has etymology in the teutonic knights, which stems from proto german for "people"...rather than deutsche being German language for German.

So whilst german/Germany may be used in the English language, these are not terms used by those speaking any of the varieties of the sprachraum.

Think of cymry/cymru. It doesn't mean welsh/Wales (which in saxon wealas was foreigner), but meant country/countrymen.

You ok, Hun x

[Feedback]

So was the Young Germany movement (active from 1830-1850, Marx described them as the Young Germans) not about the political future of the German states? Was the tract published by Marx and Engels on German Ideology in 1846 something to do with 'the people' of central Europe and not about the states, ideologies and social organisation of the German states? You insisted that Marx was a Prussian (who became stateless) not a German. It is clear from his own writings that he considered himself to be a German.

Did he? Show me where marx wrote "I am a German?"

And just to be clear...the group you refer to was junges deutschland...which literally means "the young people of our land".

Wait until you hear about the belgie, who were neither French, or Dutch.

[Feedback]

You ok, Hun x

I am now sweetcheeks xx

[Taunton Blue Genie]

I would love to contribute to this debate about the concept of Germany but I have avowed to shut my traps about such things

[dembethewarrior]

Bet you lot are a barrel of laughs down the football.

[Feedback]

I would love to contribute to this debate about the concept of Germany but I have avowed to shut my traps about such things

Please, go on and add your twopenneth

[Taunton Blue Genie]

You are misinformed.

The English language refers to the land as German and Germany from the Latin germania. In the German language "deutsche" has etymology in the teutonic knights, which stems from proto german for "people"...rather than deutsche being German language for German.

So whilst german/Germany may be used in the English language, these are not terms used by those speaking any of the varieties of the sprachraum.

Think of cymry/cymru. It doesn't mean welsh/Wales (which in saxon wealas was foreigner), but meant country/countrymen.

Hence 'Wallonia' and 'Wallachia' as the term 'wealas' was eventually use generically for foreigners. Funnily enough, I am leading a walk in the Quantocks (Cantuctun in Saxon) and which includes the highest peak i.e. Wills Neck. The 'Wills' component being cognate with 'wealas' as it is thought that the area was the buffer between the Saxon Kingdom and the Britons.

At the risk of boring people to death, the word 'slave' and 'Slav' are also cognate due to the latter people being subjugated and their 'tribal' name being used for others who became subjugated.

I'm probably talking to myself here but I'm working on it

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Please, go on and add your twopenneth

I daren't. I'll just say that there's a certain country in Europe that is referred to by its neighbours by very different names and which relate to different tribes that were in its modern-day boundaries.....

[Feedback]

Hence 'Wallonia' and 'Wallachia' as the term 'wealas' was eventually use generically for foreigners. Funnily enough, I am leading a walk in the Quantocks (Cantuctun in Saxon) and which includes the highest peak i.e. Wills Neck. The 'Wills' component being cognate with 'wealas' as it is thought that the area was the buffer between the Saxon Kingdom and the Britons.

At the risk of boring people to death, the word 'slave' and 'Slav' are also cognate due to the latter people being subjugated and their 'tribal' name being used for others who became subjugated.

I'm probably talking to myself here but I'm working on it

You're not talking to yourself. I'm pretty sure it was the Romans (the Latins not the byzantiums) who referred to the people as slavs.

[Feedback]

I daren't. I'll just say that there's a certain country in Europe that is referred to by its neighbours by very different names and which relate to different tribes that were in its modern-day boundaries.....

For example, allemagne

[Taunton Blue Genie]

For example, allemagne

I can't possibly comment or add several more to your singular example

[Feedback]

I can't possibly comment or add several more to your singular example

I do wonder how these individual tribes referred to themselves. Perhaps they referred to each other differently, or perhaps they referred to each other as being the same, a collective, so to speak.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

I do wonder how these individual tribes referred to themselves. Perhaps they referred to each other differently, or perhaps they referred to each other as being the same, a collective, so to speak.

I think it was common for tribes to consider themselves as 'people' or similar and to consider outsiders as just that.

[Feedback]

I think it was common for tribes to consider themselves as 'people' or similar and to consider outsiders as just that.

But the picts have been attested as being brythonic, yet they referred to themselves as anything but

[Taunton Blue Genie]

But the picts have been attested as being brythonic, yet they referred to themselves as anything but

Labels and the concept of self-identity are a fascinating concepts in life and they sometimes don't actually mean anything.

[Feedback]

Labels and the concept of self-identity are a fascinating concepts in life and they sometimes don't actually mean anything.

Agreed

[xsnaggle]

"But I once played in a rugby team in the Army composed of fourteen Fijians and me."

I wonder why they made him play on the opposition

I once played hooker in a team where the rest of the pack were fijian. They sared me as much as they scared the opposition but in the aftergame piss up I was bombproof lol

[jon1959]

Can't the rest of you just tell Feedback he's right even if you don't believe it? It's clearly very important to him that he believes he is.

I wish I'd followed your advice earlier.... just after his reference to 'irredentism' showed where the thread was going.