Personal pronouns in the workplace

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: Personal pronouns in the workplace

And them?

'Them' is simply the accusative form of 'they:
"If they bring it back to the office, I'll update it and return it to them".

[Wales-Bales]

Re: Personal pronouns in the workplace

It’s interesting observing this from afar, no such thing exists here, not even a consideration for discussion. I understand that the opinion will be that Poland is decades behind the UK but that’s the way it is.

What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Personal pronouns in the workplace

I have met some strange women on my travels

One lass called Edwina was definitely closer to an Edward

I did a runner

It takes all sorts

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Re: Personal pronouns in the workplace

I have met some strange women on my travels

One lass called Edwina was definitely closer to an Edward

I did a runner

It takes all sorts

That's after you'd paid "her" £50 and taken her back to your wankpad, where you had the surprise that was advertised but not expected.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Personal pronouns in the workplace

The question if we are to take things to an extreme is thus

A bloke , called David , is in prison for sexual assault on a woman

He's given 10 years inside

Halfway through he changes into a woman through surgery , tablets and psychological therapy

He's well behaved as a prisoner and when he comes out he meets a man and they get married

He's no longer deemed a threat to women by the authorities

He's now known as Davina

He's introduced to people as Davina and although it's obvious she's still go plenty of male physical characteristics people accept he as a she

What would be your reaction if your wife or girlfriend was sexually assaulted when she was younger and told you she was in the ladies toilets on Saturday night and this davina came in and was coming on to her and she had to get the bouncers ?

Because I think respecting people and understanding that a man wanting to be a woman or a woman wanting to be a man has been part of human life since we evolved ....and I think being told dave is now davina and doing your best to try to remember that and treat davina as a woman is absolutely the right thing that decent people do

But what the christ are we going to do when men who have become women and want the rights of women suddenly don't play by the rules ?

[+ the native hipster]

Re: Personal pronouns in the workplace

non binary, but plays for a girls team so happy with female when it suits her

[dembethewarrior]

Re: Personal pronouns in the workplace

It needs to be accepted that people will have different opinions as well, arguing and calling someone names because they don't follow the same opinion as the group is a bit silly really.

[Canton Kev]

Re: Personal pronouns in the workplace

The question if we are to take things to an extreme is thus

A bloke , called David , is in prison for sexual assault on a woman

He's given 10 years inside

Halfway through he changes into a woman through surgery , tablets and psychological therapy

He's well behaved as a prisoner and when he comes out he meets a man and they get married

He's no longer deemed a threat to women by the authorities

He's now known as Davina

He's introduced to people as Davina and although it's obvious she's still go plenty of male physical characteristics people accept he as a she

What would be your reaction if your wife or girlfriend was sexually assaulted when she was younger and told you she was in the ladies toilets on Saturday night and this davina came in and was coming on to her and she had to get the bouncers ?

Because I think respecting people and understanding that a man wanting to be a woman or a woman wanting to be a man has been part of human life since we evolved ....and I think being told dave is now davina and doing your best to try to remember that and treat davina as a woman is absolutely the right thing that decent people do

But what the christ are we going to do when men who have become women and want the rights of women suddenly don't play by the rules ?

The same thing that happens now if a woman born as a woman doesn’t “play by the rules”. As you said, call the bouncer.

You think there’s never been a single incident of a woman coming onto another woman without consent?

[SuperBluebirds91]

Re: Personal pronouns in the workplace

Having read through this post it’s obvious that some people completely get what trans is and others who are trying to understand/be thoughtful and that’s great to see. I can also see that there’s some people who don’t get it or don’t want to.

The trouble is there’s a lot of negative misinformation and anti trans campaign going on and it really doesn’t help in terms of helping people to understand. Campaign wise these people target vulnerable minority groups and it happened to gay people years ago but thankfully over time things are changing. The problem comes when people deliberately go out of their way to cause harm whether verbal or physical to trans people and there’s the issue but this says more about that person. Sounds crazy but trans people are currently being used as a scapegoat in a culture war hence all the rubbish about the bathroom debate - trans people just need to pee like everyone else.

I should mention at this point that I am trans myself so I have first hand experience (Female to male transition) with these issues. I can’t speak for every trans person but personally it is traumatic going back as early as I can remember. I would just go about my business as a young lad and suddenly someone would call me a girls name….it’s mortifying. It’s the constant reminders that you are supposed to be a girl that’s hard. Then I reach my teens - I just assumed I’d grow up big muscular and strong with a beard but kept being reminded every time I looked in the mirror …….you are curvy and your chest is developing! You can bear a child - It’s horrendous. This is why so many trans people self harm and even take their own lives. On top of this you have then got hatred in society but some people. Basically I just tried to navigate my way through life the best I can but then I am faced with …….you aren’t a man you’re a women by people - that really cuts deep.

All I can say is to try and put yourselves in that situation, imagine being called and told you are women when you don’t feel you are inside and imagine looking in the mirror and you have female body parts. It goes way beyond what clothes you want to wear or the colour of your t shirt etc - it’s completely about how you feel inside. For people who are not trans, there is never a reason to challenge who you are because everything aligns. But as a trans person when there is a mismatch or an alignment problem between how you are wired and what body parts you have, it’s very difficult.

In terms of pronouns though Icompletely understand and I’m pretty sure most trans people know that it’s hard to adjust to and making mistakes is just human.it’s absolutely fine. Obviously if someone kept doing it constantly then yes it may become awkward but no trans person I know would worry if it is a genuine mistake. To be honest even trans people, and I’ve done it myself, have made these mistakes and it can take time to adjust.

All I can say is just to give it a go. If you say something by accident just say oh sorry and correct it and move on….no harm done :-) The problem lies where people deliberately call someone the opposite or wrong pronoun to what they are or refuse to acknowledge that being trans even exists. If people are unsure there is absolutely no harm in asking or if it feels too awkward to ask just call the person by their name until it becomes more clear. I would think the pronoun ‘it’ is very offensive HOWEVER, I was aware of someone using it as their pronoun once so it’s individual and unique really.

Basically gender is a spectrum and where the majority of people sit on the binary of either male or female, some people don’t. They may feel they are somewhere in between or actually feel they don’t identify with any gender whatsoever ever. I realise it’s very hard to take this in if you weren’t aware of this before but it’s important to realise it’s not new,trans people have been around for a long long time but there’s just more words and ways to describe things now which helps trans people but can be confusing to people who aren’t.

The main pronouns I come across are basically he/him, she/her, they/them (often used by people who are nonbinary or come along the spectrum somewhere other than male or female) but there are others too but it can be difficult to learn them all and take it all in so I basicallly would say as long as you are aware of the above 3 then if a person differs from these they will probably just say so.
Many workplaces now have policies in place to cater for different pronouns. It maybe hard for some people to adjust to it but I can say that it isn’t as hard as it is for the trans person in that workplace.

I really hope the above helps and hopefully it hasn’t come across as abit condescending or anything. If people don’t want to learn about it, it’s absolutely fine no one can be forced into reading about this but they are important life issues and you never know one day you could have a best mate, a partner or even a child who is trans. I am certainly not an alien from out of space but the way I see it, when I was made in the factory, they ran out of the correct body parts that day and had to give me the opposite.

[UNDERHILL1927]

Re: Personal pronouns in the workplace

Having read through this post it’s obvious that some people completely get what trans is and others who are trying to understand/be thoughtful and that’s great to see. I can also see that there’s some people who don’t get it or don’t want to.

The trouble is there’s a lot of negative misinformation and anti trans campaign going on and it really doesn’t help in terms of helping people to understand. Campaign wise these people target vulnerable minority groups and it happened to gay people years ago but thankfully over time things are changing. The problem comes when people deliberately go out of their way to cause harm whether verbal or physical to trans people and there’s the issue but this says more about that person. Sounds crazy but trans people are currently being used as a scapegoat in a culture war hence all the rubbish about the bathroom debate - trans people just need to pee like everyone else.

I should mention at this point that I am trans myself so I have first hand experience (Female to male transition) with these issues. I can’t speak for every trans person but personally it is traumatic going back as early as I can remember. I would just go about my business as a young lad and suddenly someone would call me a girls name….it’s mortifying. It’s the constant reminders that you are supposed to be a girl that’s hard. Then I reach my teens - I just assumed I’d grow up big muscular and strong with a beard but kept being reminded every time I looked in the mirror …….you are curvy and your chest is developing! You can bear a child - It’s horrendous. This is why so many trans people self harm and even take their own lives. On top of this you have then got hatred in society but some people. Basically I just tried to navigate my way through life the best I can but then I am faced with …….you aren’t a man you’re a women by people - that really cuts deep.

All I can say is to try and put yourselves in that situation, imagine being called and told you are women when you don’t feel you are inside and imagine looking in the mirror and you have female body parts. It goes way beyond what clothes you want to wear or the colour of your t shirt etc - it’s completely about how you feel inside. For people who are not trans, there is never a reason to challenge who you are because everything aligns. But as a trans person when there is a mismatch or an alignment problem between how you are wired and what body parts you have, it’s very difficult.

In terms of pronouns though Icompletely understand and I’m pretty sure most trans people know that it’s hard to adjust to and making mistakes is just human.it’s absolutely fine. Obviously if someone kept doing it constantly then yes it may become awkward but no trans person I know would worry if it is a genuine mistake. To be honest even trans people, and I’ve done it myself, have made these mistakes and it can take time to adjust.

All I can say is just to give it a go. If you say something by accident just say oh sorry and correct it and move on….no harm done :-) The problem lies where people deliberately call someone the opposite or wrong pronoun to what they are or refuse to acknowledge that being trans even exists. If people are unsure there is absolutely no harm in asking or if it feels too awkward to ask just call the person by their name until it becomes more clear. I would think the pronoun ‘it’ is very offensive HOWEVER, I was aware of someone using it as their pronoun once so it’s individual and unique really.

Basically gender is a spectrum and where the majority of people sit on the binary of either male or female, some people don’t. They may feel they are somewhere in between or actually feel they don’t identify with any gender whatsoever ever. I realise it’s very hard to take this in if you weren’t aware of this before but it’s important to realise it’s not new,trans people have been around for a long long time but there’s just more words and ways to describe things now which helps trans people but can be confusing to people who aren’t.

The main pronouns I come across are basically he/him, she/her, they/them (often used by people who are nonbinary or come along the spectrum somewhere other than male or female) but there are others too but it can be difficult to learn them all and take it all in so I basicallly would say as long as you are aware of the above 3 then if a person differs from these they will probably just say so.
Many workplaces now have policies in place to cater for different pronouns. It maybe hard for some people to adjust to it but I can say that it isn’t as hard as it is for the trans person in that workplace.

I really hope the above helps and hopefully it hasn’t come across as abit condescending or anything. If people don’t want to learn about it, it’s absolutely fine no one can be forced into reading about this but they are important life issues and you never know one day you could have a best mate, a partner or even a child who is trans. I am certainly not an alien from out of space but the way I see it, when I was made in the factory, they ran out of the correct body parts that day and had to give me the opposite.

Thanks for your honesty, very refreshing. I’d love to know more, ignorance isn’t bliss, education is bliss.

There’s a few in here using the usual whataboutery.

Black lives matter - all lives matter in nature.

Rather than judge people by the media and their ridiculous biases, I prefer to listen to real people like you, so thank you.

[blue matt]

Re: Personal pronouns in the workplace

non binary, but plays for a girls team so happy with female when it suits her

I guess this was a reply to my post

you could look at it that way

but

when " they " started playing football, " they " were a girl, and " they " are still physically a girl ( not taking any hormones ), Playing football is a massive plus for " them " in a rather mundane life, so to me, it really does no harm to anyone if " they " play football and it makes " them " happy while not identifing as a boy or girl, it really is no Drama

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: Personal pronouns in the workplace

Having read through this post it’s obvious that some people completely get what trans is and others who are trying to understand/be thoughtful and that’s great to see. I can also see that there’s some people who don’t get it or don’t want to.

The trouble is there’s a lot of negative misinformation and anti trans campaign going on and it really doesn’t help in terms of helping people to understand. Campaign wise these people target vulnerable minority groups and it happened to gay people years ago but thankfully over time things are changing. The problem comes when people deliberately go out of their way to cause harm whether verbal or physical to trans people and there’s the issue but this says more about that person. Sounds crazy but trans people are currently being used as a scapegoat in a culture war hence all the rubbish about the bathroom debate - trans people just need to pee like everyone else.

I should mention at this point that I am trans myself so I have first hand experience (Female to male transition) with these issues. I can’t speak for every trans person but personally it is traumatic going back as early as I can remember. I would just go about my business as a young lad and suddenly someone would call me a girls name….it’s mortifying. It’s the constant reminders that you are supposed to be a girl that’s hard. Then I reach my teens - I just assumed I’d grow up big muscular and strong with a beard but kept being reminded every time I looked in the mirror …….you are curvy and your chest is developing! You can bear a child - It’s horrendous. This is why so many trans people self harm and even take their own lives. On top of this you have then got hatred in society but some people. Basically I just tried to navigate my way through life the best I can but then I am faced with …….you aren’t a man you’re a women by people - that really cuts deep.

All I can say is to try and put yourselves in that situation, imagine being called and told you are women when you don’t feel you are inside and imagine looking in the mirror and you have female body parts. It goes way beyond what clothes you want to wear or the colour of your t shirt etc - it’s completely about how you feel inside. For people who are not trans, there is never a reason to challenge who you are because everything aligns. But as a trans person when there is a mismatch or an alignment problem between how you are wired and what body parts you have, it’s very difficult.

In terms of pronouns though Icompletely understand and I’m pretty sure most trans people know that it’s hard to adjust to and making mistakes is just human.it’s absolutely fine. Obviously if someone kept doing it constantly then yes it may become awkward but no trans person I know would worry if it is a genuine mistake. To be honest even trans people, and I’ve done it myself, have made these mistakes and it can take time to adjust.

All I can say is just to give it a go. If you say something by accident just say oh sorry and correct it and move on….no harm done :-) The problem lies where people deliberately call someone the opposite or wrong pronoun to what they are or refuse to acknowledge that being trans even exists. If people are unsure there is absolutely no harm in asking or if it feels too awkward to ask just call the person by their name until it becomes more clear. I would think the pronoun ‘it’ is very offensive HOWEVER, I was aware of someone using it as their pronoun once so it’s individual and unique really.

Basically gender is a spectrum and where the majority of people sit on the binary of either male or female, some people don’t. They may feel they are somewhere in between or actually feel they don’t identify with any gender whatsoever ever. I realise it’s very hard to take this in if you weren’t aware of this before but it’s important to realise it’s not new,trans people have been around for a long long time but there’s just more words and ways to describe things now which helps trans people but can be confusing to people who aren’t.

The main pronouns I come across are basically he/him, she/her, they/them (often used by people who are nonbinary or come along the spectrum somewhere other than male or female) but there are others too but it can be difficult to learn them all and take it all in so I basicallly would say as long as you are aware of the above 3 then if a person differs from these they will probably just say so.
Many workplaces now have policies in place to cater for different pronouns. It maybe hard for some people to adjust to it but I can say that it isn’t as hard as it is for the trans person in that workplace.

I really hope the above helps and hopefully it hasn’t come across as abit condescending or anything. If people don’t want to learn about it, it’s absolutely fine no one can be forced into reading about this but they are important life issues and you never know one day you could have a best mate, a partner or even a child who is trans. I am certainly not an alien from out of space but the way I see it, when I was made in the factory, they ran out of the correct body parts that day and had to give me the opposite.

Thanks for your contribution and ignore those in this thread who aren't able to conduct themselves in an intelligent debate without descending to personal insults. Unfortunately, such people usually end up dominating thread and intelligent debate goes down the pan - but reading of your perspective is of interest to most thinking people on here, I would imagine.

[lardy]

Re: Personal pronouns in the workplace

Thanks for writing that, superbluebird. There will always be some who think their own narrow view of the world is the only one that exists and everyone else is simply wrong, such as on this thread, but most people are very open to reading first-hand accounts like yours.

[splott parker]

Re: Personal pronouns in the workplace

Perhaps the post of the year, as early as it is, thanks SuperBluebird, very enlightening :thumbup:

[North Cardiff Blue]

Re: Personal pronouns in the workplace

Having read through this post it’s obvious that some people completely get what trans is and others who are trying to understand/be thoughtful and that’s great to see. I can also see that there’s some people who don’t get it or don’t want to.

The trouble is there’s a lot of negative misinformation and anti trans campaign going on and it really doesn’t help in terms of helping people to understand. Campaign wise these people target vulnerable minority groups and it happened to gay people years ago but thankfully over time things are changing. The problem comes when people deliberately go out of their way to cause harm whether verbal or physical to trans people and there’s the issue but this says more about that person. Sounds crazy but trans people are currently being used as a scapegoat in a culture war hence all the rubbish about the bathroom debate - trans people just need to pee like everyone else.

I should mention at this point that I am trans myself so I have first hand experience (Female to male transition) with these issues. I can’t speak for every trans person but personally it is traumatic going back as early as I can remember. I would just go about my business as a young lad and suddenly someone would call me a girls name….it’s mortifying. It’s the constant reminders that you are supposed to be a girl that’s hard. Then I reach my teens - I just assumed I’d grow up big muscular and strong with a beard but kept being reminded every time I looked in the mirror …….you are curvy and your chest is developing! You can bear a child - It’s horrendous. This is why so many trans people self harm and even take their own lives. On top of this you have then got hatred in society but some people. Basically I just tried to navigate my way through life the best I can but then I am faced with …….you aren’t a man you’re a women by people - that really cuts deep.

All I can say is to try and put yourselves in that situation, imagine being called and told you are women when you don’t feel you are inside and imagine looking in the mirror and you have female body parts. It goes way beyond what clothes you want to wear or the colour of your t shirt etc - it’s completely about how you feel inside. For people who are not trans, there is never a reason to challenge who you are because everything aligns. But as a trans person when there is a mismatch or an alignment problem between how you are wired and what body parts you have, it’s very difficult.

In terms of pronouns though Icompletely understand and I’m pretty sure most trans people know that it’s hard to adjust to and making mistakes is just human.it’s absolutely fine. Obviously if someone kept doing it constantly then yes it may become awkward but no trans person I know would worry if it is a genuine mistake. To be honest even trans people, and I’ve done it myself, have made these mistakes and it can take time to adjust.

All I can say is just to give it a go. If you say something by accident just say oh sorry and correct it and move on….no harm done :-) The problem lies where people deliberately call someone the opposite or wrong pronoun to what they are or refuse to acknowledge that being trans even exists. If people are unsure there is absolutely no harm in asking or if it feels too awkward to ask just call the person by their name until it becomes more clear. I would think the pronoun ‘it’ is very offensive HOWEVER, I was aware of someone using it as their pronoun once so it’s individual and unique really.

Basically gender is a spectrum and where the majority of people sit on the binary of either male or female, some people don’t. They may feel they are somewhere in between or actually feel they don’t identify with any gender whatsoever ever. I realise it’s very hard to take this in if you weren’t aware of this before but it’s important to realise it’s not new,trans people have been around for a long long time but there’s just more words and ways to describe things now which helps trans people but can be confusing to people who aren’t.

The main pronouns I come across are basically he/him, she/her, they/them (often used by people who are nonbinary or come along the spectrum somewhere other than male or female) but there are others too but it can be difficult to learn them all and take it all in so I basicallly would say as long as you are aware of the above 3 then if a person differs from these they will probably just say so.
Many workplaces now have policies in place to cater for different pronouns. It maybe hard for some people to adjust to it but I can say that it isn’t as hard as it is for the trans person in that workplace.

I really hope the above helps and hopefully it hasn’t come across as abit condescending or anything. If people don’t want to learn about it, it’s absolutely fine no one can be forced into reading about this but they are important life issues and you never know one day you could have a best mate, a partner or even a child who is trans. I am certainly not an alien from out of space but the way I see it, when I was made in the factory, they ran out of the correct body parts that day and had to give me the opposite.

Interesting.