40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

[Gofer Blue]

We have the world we have because of organised religion .....point 1..........not because we have ignored the teachings of Jesus etc etc

Point 2 .....the teachings of Jesus are just reasonable ways to live , people's of lots of backgrounds all over the centuries have either lived badly or somewhere in the middle or like complete tossers .....plenty of people who live as Christians die young through the actions of others or in accidents that if God existed he would have seen coming and thought blimey Trevor is going to be hit by flying masonry next week in the storm , I will make sure he stays in the house .....but he doesn't

He doesn't exist

God brings comfort then that's fine but quoting stories saying oh he said this and he said that on the way to the temple and the way that possible conversation was interpretation a few hundred years later means that people's lives are actually shaped by all this hearsay ?


And the Jews are the chosen ones ?

And this land is theirs oh no its not its ours !

The sooner humanity kicks all this into touch the better

If someone wants to argue religion is not at the core of the Israeli Arab conflict I know a good psychiatrist

I found this quote on the Internet which I think is a good summary:

“Instead of debating the fate of those who have never heard, we as Christians should be doing our best to make sure they do hear. We are called to spread the gospel throughout the nations (Matthew 28:19-20; Acts 1:8). We know people reject the knowledge of God revealed in nature, and that must motivate us to proclaim the good news of salvation through Jesus Christ. Only by accepting God’s grace through the Lord Jesus Christ can people be saved from their sins and rescued from an eternity apart from God”.

I freely admit that I am not a particularly good evangelist but if challenged about Christianity I will do my best to respond.

There is a Christian charity called the Wycliffe Bible Translators whose sole purpose it is, is to translate the Bible into every language. They say that 1 in 5 of the world's population have not heard the Gospels in their own language so they have quite a task on their hands. I am surprised that in this day and age there are so many people to reach.

The Bible acknowledges the issue you raise: “And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.” (Matthew 24:14). This means everyone will have a chance to hear the gospels and have the opportunity to accept or reject it. At the end of the day I am not God so (thankfully) it is not my job to judge people!

I can't help feeling that the fact you grew up in a Catholic environment has coloured your understanding of Christianity. Martin Luther, along with many other reformers, recognized that the Roman Catholic doctrine of “temporal and spiritual orders” (most commonly known to us as “Clergy and laity”) was not biblically accurate. In fact, for the most part it was man-made. They essentially believed that common believers were not capable of fulfilling the duties that the clergy were called to so they created this great distinction between the two. Instead of an equal playing field where every believer participated in the priestly duties, the Roman Catholic church created a hierarchy in the church. The trained professionals ruled over the common untrained people. This distinction was largely non-existent prior to the fourth century. (Some historians claim there were traces of it just prior to Constantine). We all know what happened with this unbiblical dispensing of power!

You may (or may not!) care to know that I no longer attend an established church. Instead as a group of like minded Christians we meet in our own homes just as the early church did back in the 1st century A.D. There is no hierarchy, we are all equal in the sight of God.

Finally, I do not deny that religion is the primary cause of the Israeli/Arab conflict. I rather think you mean here the Jewish and Islamic religions in particular – I don't believe there are many jihadist or “eye-for-an-eye” gun-toting Christians involved there do you?

I'm sure Jesus weeps over the whole situation as he did when speaking of Jerusalem all those years ago: “As he came near and saw the city, he wept over it, saying, “If you, even you, had only recognized on this day the things that make for peace! But now they are hidden from your eyes.” Luke 19:41-42 .

Fast forward 2000 years...mankind has learned nothing but we still have the free will to carry on, on our own sweet way.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

I found this quote on the Internet which I think is a good summary:

“Instead of debating the fate of those who have never heard, we as Christians should be doing our best to make sure they do hear. We are called to spread the gospel throughout the nations (Matthew 28:19-20; Acts 1:8). We know people reject the knowledge of God revealed in nature, and that must motivate us to proclaim the good news of salvation through Jesus Christ. Only by accepting God’s grace through the Lord Jesus Christ can people be saved from their sins and rescued from an eternity apart from God”.

I freely admit that I am not a particularly good evangelist but if challenged about Christianity I will do my best to respond.

There is a Christian charity called the Wycliffe Bible Translators whose sole purpose it is, is to translate the Bible into every language. They say that 1 in 5 of the world's population have not heard the Gospels in their own language so they have quite a task on their hands. I am surprised that in this day and age there are so many people to reach.

The Bible acknowledges the issue you raise: “And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.” (Matthew 24:14). This means everyone will have a chance to hear the gospels and have the opportunity to accept or reject it. At the end of the day I am not God so (thankfully) it is not my job to judge people!

I can't help feeling that the fact you grew up in a Catholic environment has coloured your understanding of Christianity. Martin Luther, along with many other reformers, recognized that the Roman Catholic doctrine of “temporal and spiritual orders” (most commonly known to us as “Clergy and laity”) was not biblically accurate. In fact, for the most part it was man-made. They essentially believed that common believers were not capable of fulfilling the duties that the clergy were called to so they created this great distinction between the two. Instead of an equal playing field where every believer participated in the priestly duties, the Roman Catholic church created a hierarchy in the church. The trained professionals ruled over the common untrained people. This distinction was largely non-existent prior to the fourth century. (Some historians claim there were traces of it just prior to Constantine). We all know what happened with this unbiblical dispensing of power!

You may (or may not!) care to know that I no longer attend an established church. Instead as a group of like minded Christians we meet in our own homes just as the early church did back in the 1st century A.D. There is no hierarchy, we are all equal in the sight of God.

Finally, I do not deny that religion is the primary cause of the Israeli/Arab conflict. I rather think you mean here the Jewish and Islamic religions in particular – I don't believe there are many jihadist or “eye-for-an-eye” gun-toting Christians involved there do you?

I'm sure Jesus weeps over the whole situation as he did when speaking of Jerusalem all those years ago: “As he came near and saw the city, he wept over it, saying, “If you, even you, had only recognized on this day the things that make for peace! But now they are hidden from your eyes.” Luke 19:41-42 .

Fast forward 2000 years...mankind has learned nothing but we still have the free will to carry on, on our own sweet way.

My first response to this is simple

If organised religion through bibles and churches and missionaries......to be a Christian is to be a missionary my mother always said ......

Cannot get through to those that need to be given the chance to accept your God.....then if God is all powerful then he should let these people .....billions of them .... into his kingdom

Everything regarding God and religion fails basic tests every time ....and if it fails holy people have another story or saying or reading ......or excuse

[jon1959]

In answer to your question, please see my reply to SF below.

I read it. A lot of words but it doesn’t even attempt to answer my question - or the similar points made by TBG.

But let it lie - I have lost interest and there is no possible response that doesn’t involve mental contortions and supernatural illogical feedback loops that will be meaningless to anyone outside the bubble. Life’s too short.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

The surge in dogmatic atheism along with the growth of social media coincides with the most polarized society that I can remember.

A new religion of puritanical zealots has filled the vacuum and is succeeding in sucking out the reasoning and joys of society.

Back on topic though.

It is imperative that both Hamas and Israel are held accountable.
Hamas for the terrible atrocities that occurred recently and Israel for its abhorrent treatment of Palestinians over decades, creating such fertile ground for an organization like Hamas to grow.

This conflict is a Wet Dream for Netanyahu and his cabinet.
They must have had intelligence about what was going happen and I think they let it slide to allow them to pursue the actions that they are now taking.

Conversely, Hamas would have expected such a reaction including the deaths of thousands of civilians.
For what purpose?

Not having sufficient evidence to believe in a deity is a lack of dogma rather than a dogma, old fruit.

[jon1959]

Not having sufficient evidence to believe in a deity is a lack of dogma rather than a dogma, old fruit.

Dogmatix.jpg

[Gofer Blue]

I read it. A lot of words but it doesn’t even attempt to answer my question - or the similar points made by TBG.

But let it lie - I have lost interest and there is no possible response that doesn’t involve mental contortions and supernatural illogical feedback loops that will be meaningless to anyone outside the bubble. Life’s too short.

This one is indeed! OK, sorry you have lost interest but I'm happy to bow out of the discussion with you at this point.

[Gofer Blue]

My first response to this is simple

If organised religion through bibles and churches and missionaries......to be a Christian is to be a missionary my mother always said ......

Cannot get through to those that need to be given the chance to accept your God.....then if God is all powerful then he should let these people .....billions of them .... into his kingdom

Everything regarding God and religion fails basic tests every time ....and if it fails holy people have another story or saying or reading ......or excuse

Sludge - I don't think there is anything more I can say to you to try to answer your questions. At the end of the day it's all about faith, a single step of faith. I wasn't born a Christian. I didn't become one until my late 30's having been a skeptic from my teenage years on. All I know is now I would not go back to my old way of life, I have a new life in Christ. It's not a life of ease, far from it, as Jesus has warned: "I have said these things to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation". (John 16:33). I have that peace but obviously being human I am clinging on by my fingertips sometimes!

Jesus has shown the way but you and the rest of mankind are free to do what you want, believe what you want, so let's leave it there eh. Maybe one day there will be that light-bulb moment for you too - I pray there will be.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

This one is indeed! OK, sorry you have lost interest but I'm happy to bow out of the discussion with you at this point.

And this is the problem

There is always a yes but no but yes

Your god is omnipresent and omnipotent ?

Yes

Well tell him through his army of followers ......you lot .....to stop the awful situation in the place you think his son wandered .....tell him to stop all this killing !

Oh he can't do that


But he's omnipotent and omnipresent! You say so !

Er .....change tack , quote some stuff someone possibly wrote in a book 2000 years ago


Actually , no thanks , I have heard enough , I am going to watch some TV, phone a friend , listen to some music, this is all absolutely ridiculous ........

But what about chapter 12 , verse .....?

And on it goes

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Sludge - I don't think there is anything more I can say to you to try to answer your questions. At the end of the day it's all about faith, a single step of faith. I wasn't born a Christian. I didn't become one until my late 30's having been a skeptic from my teenage years on. All I know is now I would not go back to my old way of life, I have a new life in Christ. It's not a life of ease, far from it, as Jesus has warned: "I have said these things to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation". (John 16:33). I have that peace but obviously being human I am clinging on by my fingertips sometimes!

Jesus has shown the way but you and the rest of mankind are free to do what you want, believe what you want, so let's leave it there eh. Maybe one day there will be that light-bulb moment for you too - I pray there will be.

You believe Jesus has shown you his way

I don't believe in something that when asked to prove its existence completely fails

If someone is dying from cancer religious people get together and pray at the church

If he dies , it's God's will

If he lives for a while , it's God's will

It's covering every base I suppose

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Sludge - I don't think there is anything more I can say to you to try to answer your questions. At the end of the day it's all about faith, a single step of faith. I wasn't born a Christian. I didn't become one until my late 30's having been a skeptic from my teenage years on. All I know is now I would not go back to my old way of life, I have a new life in Christ. It's not a life of ease, far from it, as Jesus has warned: "I have said these things to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation". (John 16:33). I have that peace but obviously being human I am clinging on by my fingertips sometimes!

Jesus has shown the way but you and the rest of mankind are free to do what you want, believe what you want, so let's leave it there eh. Maybe one day there will be that light-bulb moment for you too - I pray there will be.

There's no proof that Jesus said as much (and not that most Abrahamists think that Jesus was the son of God in the first place). You have simply believed something written down by someone else way after the event and with no audit trail of proof whatsoever. Do you also believe in the talking snake, as reported in the Bible just because it was written down at some stage (and when Adam and Eve and their progeny would have been illiterate)?
This Christian god can't even get most people on the planet (i.e. the very people he created himself) to believe in 'him' and those that do don't all have the same perspective on who Jesus supposedly was or believe in the same collation of 'holy book'. Even the threat of eternal damnation doesn't do the trick.
Oh, and many of the stories in the Bible came from earlier religions in the vicinity; the virgin birth, the story of Noah (Ziusudra in Sumerian culture and who was re-packaged as Atrahasis in Old Babylonian culture and then as Ushnapishtim in the Epic of Gilgamesh), the story of a Moses being cast adrift as a baby to avoid being murdered (as in Mesoptamian stories), the story of Moses and receiving the 10 commandments (extremely close to ancient Egyptian writings), the forgiving nature and ability to heal the sick (as Asclepius in Greek culture), the Virgin birth (as in the cases of Mars the ancient Roman god and Horus the ancient Egyptian god). One could go on ad infinitum.
It's all folklore and exceedingly fascinating. To believe one version of a so-called holy book as literally all true because it is stated in one particular compendium (and one that contains contradiction) is amusing. Christianity took hold due to the expansion of the Roman Empire and the subsequent expansion of those cultures affected.
Abrahamism simply demonstrates the endless schisms that take place in respect of religions (e.g. Judaism, Islam, Christianity, Baháʼí Faith, Samaritanism, Druze, Rastafari etc. Even Christianity has its own endless schisms; Catholicism, Protestantism, Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, Methodism, Baptism, Lutheranism, Eastern Orthodox, Calvinism, Baptist, Pentecostalism etc etc etc).
In the absence of evidence, folklore is down to interpretation and it will be interpreted and and modified by its adherents as it goes along (and Christianity is simply a part of that process after taking onto The Torah (which itself lifted stories from elsewhere).
Whatever god you believe in, her/she/it isn't doing a great job in getting the majority of the world's population to believe in him/her/it - and religiosity is generally declining in countries where autocracy is not the flavour of government and where the population is educated.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

There's no proof that Jesus said as much (and not that most Abrahamists think that Jesus was the son of God in the first place). You have simply believed something written down by someone else way after the event and with no audit trail of proof whatsoever. Do you also believe in the talking snake, as reported in the Bible just because it was written down at some stage (and when Adam and Eve and their progeny would have been illiterate)?
This Christian god can't even get most people on the planet (i.e. the very people he created himself) to believe in 'him' and those that do don't all have the same perspective on who Jesus supposedly was or believe in the same collation of 'holy book'. Even the threat of eternal damnation doesn't do the trick.
Oh, and many of the stories in the Bible came from earlier religions in the vicinity; the virgin birth, the story of Noah (Ziusudra in Sumerian culture and who was re-packaged as Atrahasis in Old Babylonian culture and then as Ushnapishtim in the Epic of Gilgamesh), the story of a Moses being cast adrift as a baby to avoid being murdered (as in Mesoptamian stories), the story of Moses and receiving the 10 commandments (extremely close to ancient Egyptian writings), the forgiving nature and ability to heal the sick (as Asclepius in Greek culture), the Virgin birth (as in the cases of Mars the ancient Roman god and Horus the ancient Egyptian god). One could go on ad infinitum.
It's all folklore and exceedingly fascinating. To believe one version of a so-called holy book as literally all true because it is stated in one particular compendium (and one that contains contradiction) is amusing. Christianity took hold due to the expansion of the Roman Empire and the subsequent expansion of those cultures affected.
Abrahamism simply demonstrates the endless schisms that take place in respect of religions (e.g. Judaism, Islam, Christianity, Baháʼí Faith, Samaritanism, Druze, Rastafari etc. Even Christianity has its own endless schisms; Catholicism, Protestantism, Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, Methodism, Baptism, Lutheranism, Eastern Orthodox, Calvinism, Baptist, Pentecostalism etc etc etc).
In the absence of evidence, folklore is down to interpretation and it will be interpreted and and modified by its adherents as it goes along (and Christianity is simply a part of that process after taking onto The Torah (which itself lifted stories from elsewhere).
Whatever god you believe in, her/she/it isn't doing a great job in getting the majority of the world's population to believe in him/her/it - and religiosity is generally declining in countries where autocracy is not the flavour of government and where the population is educated.

There are 10 .....interpretations .....of Christianity listed by you there ......I believe its said there are 30 ?

The Islamic faith is often criticised by western religious faith hipsters ........because there are differing strands and even islamists can't agree

I would say these Christians should attend to the fire in their own back yard first

[Taunton Blue Genie]

There are 10 .....interpretations .....of Christianity listed by you there ......I believe its said there are 30 ?

The Islamic faith is often criticised by western religious faith hipsters ........because there are differing strands and even islamists can't agree

I would say these Christians should attend to the fire in their own back yard first

You can't put a number on schisms - as different individuals within the same schisms often disagree regarding interpretations, fundamental and otherwise.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

You can't put a number on schisms - as different individuals within the same schisms often disagree regarding interpretations, fundamental and otherwise.

Indeed it's all nonsense

A plague on all their houses

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Apols for taking this serious thread down a different track.

[Wash DC Blue]

Not having sufficient evidence to believe in a deity is a lack of dogma rather than a dogma, old fruit.

I know that I am ill equipped to have a debate with your good self on semantics sir.
However I do think that the word dogmatic can mean unwavering in opinion.

Copied from vocabulary.com

“To be dogmatic is to follow a set of rules no matter what. The rules might be religious, philosophical, or made-up, but dogmatic people would never waver in their beliefs so don't even think of trying to change their minds”.

I find the atheist movement becoming more and more zealous as well as intolerant and disrespectful to people of faith.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

I know that I am ill equipped to have a debate with your good self on semantics sir.
However I do think that the word dogmatic can mean unwavering in opinion.

Copied from vocabulary.com

“To be dogmatic is to follow a set of rules no matter what. The rules might be religious, philosophical, or made-up, but dogmatic people would never waver in their beliefs so don't even think of trying to change their minds”.

I find the atheist movement becoming more and more zealous as well as intolerant and disrespectful to people of faith.

Not being convinced of something due to a lack of evidence at a particular juncture in time is not dogmatic, old fruit. If evidence appears in due course and is convincing then I will take it on board. That's not exactly never waivering in a 'belief'. (I don't have a 'belief' as such, at this point in time).

You may believe in talking snakes and donkeys but I am not aware of any evidence to back it up. Similarly, I have no access to evidence about deities with elephant heads, eagle heads or a horse's torso. You probably don't believe in the latter three or thousands of other gods that have been worshipped so does that make you dogmatic by your own projected logic?

Are you really not able to understand the difference between being unconvinced due to a lack of evidence of something (although understanding that new evidence may indeed be discovered and be taken into account in due course) and being so dogmatic that whatever you are convinced of is unassailably correct whilst all alternatives are incorrect?

I think the dogmatism is one way here, old fruit. You are merely projecting.

[Wash DC Blue]

Not being convinced of something due to a lack of evidence at a particular juncture in time is not dogmatic, old fruit. If evidence appears in due course and is convincing then I will take it on board. That's not exactly never waivering in a 'belief'. (I don't have a 'belief' as such, at this point in time).

You may believe in talking snakes and donkeys but I am not aware of any evidence to back it up. Similarly, I have no access to evidence about deities with elephant heads, eagle heads or a horse's torso. You probably don't believe in the latter three or thousands of other gods that have been worshipped so does that make you dogmatic by your own projected logic?

Are you really not able to understand the difference between being unconvinced due to a lack of evidence of something (although understanding that new evidence may indeed be discovered and be taken into account in due course) and being so dogmatic that whatever you are convinced of is unassailably correct whilst all alternatives are incorrect?

I think the dogmatism is one way here, old fruit. You are merely projecting.

Not being certain in this case I would say is being agnostic not atheist.

You have made an assumption as to what I believe and disbelieve.
I’m not a believer in one true religion.
If someone believes in the son of Shiva…all power to them.

Are you able to understand that you have about as much of a clue regarding the origins of the universe as I do?
For all we know we could be part of a big simulation and your view on it carries no more weight than any devout Muslim or Hindu.
Higgs-Boson was held up as a scientific deity up until recently and now we are back still trying to find out more….which i think is a good thing.

Also, if you don’t mind…I’d appreciate it if you could define your understanding of the word “dogmatic” and if it is acceptable to be used in a non theological context.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

The first dictionary definition of atheism I found on Google comes from 'Oxford Languages':


a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods.
"he is a committed atheist""

'Or lacks belief'covers it, methinks.

I haven't stated how much I know about the origin of the universe and haven't suggested that I know more than you, old fruit. I don't have a problem in not knowing some things that seem unfathomable at this time. I just don't believe many of the Iron Age and Bronze Age explanations for such things.

We both know that dogmatic is used in a wider context than just regarding things theological and I have explained that my view on such things is not unchangeable, as I have explained. I don't tell other people what to think (including my religious friends) but I am happy explaining why I'm not religious.

Rather than the ad hominem stuff and discussing the different meaning of words (very important, I grant you) would you like to tell us about your world view (as mine is non-commital)? If not, and you want it to remain personal, I do understand.

I have no need to lock horns with you for the sake of it.

[A Quiet Monkfish]

Not being certain in this case I would say is being agnostic not atheist.

You have made an assumption as to what I believe and disbelieve.
I’m not a believer in one true religion.
If someone believes in the son of Shiva…all power to them.

Are you able to understand that you have about as much of a clue regarding the origins of the universe as I do?
For all we know we could be part of a big simulation and your view on it carries no more weight than any devout Muslim or Hindu.
Higgs-Boson was held up as a scientific deity up until recently and now we are back still trying to find out more….which i think is a good thing.

Also, if you don’t mind…I’d appreciate it if you could define your understanding of the word “dogmatic” and if it is acceptable to be used in a non theological context.

For 20 or so years the accepted wisdom - provided by the scientific community - was that everything started with the 'big bang'. Disgracefully some people dared ask 'what was there before the big bang ?'. They came up with 'there was another big bang before that one.". Well that's settled that then !!

[truthpaste]

The first dictionary definition of atheism I found on Google comes from 'Oxford Languages':


a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods.
"he is a committed atheist""

'Or lacks belief'covers it, methinks.

I haven't stated how much I know about the origin of the universe and haven't suggested that I know more than you, old fruit. I don't have a problem in not knowing some things that seem unfathomable at this time. I just don't believe many of the Iron Age and Bronze Age explanations for such things.

We both know that dogmatic is used in a wider context than just regarding things theological and I have explained that my view on such things is not unchangeable, as I have explained. I don't tell other people what to think (including my religious friends) but I am happy explaining why I'm not religious.

Rather than the ad hominem stuff and discussing the different meaning of words (very important, I grant you) would you like to tell us about your world view (as mine is non-commital)? If not, and you want it to remain personal, I do understand.

I have no need to lock horns with you for the sake of it.

A lack of faith is inaccurate as all individuals place faith in multiple things on a daily basis.
More specifically, it's the desire to believe that I am not accountable to any greater being, so I can live my life without any ultimate consequences whatsoever.

[jon1959]

A lack of faith is inaccurate as all individuals place faith in multiple things on a daily basis.

Not blind faith.

More specifically, it's the desire to believe that I am not accountable to any greater being, so I can live my life without any ultimate consequences whatsoever.

Most of us have values, ethics and a moral framework to live our lives. We don't need to aspire to eternity in Valhalla or on a fluffy cloud with a bearded white grandad to feel accountable for our actions.

.

[truthpaste]

[/COLOR]

.

Yet you have no clue why humans as opposed to lower forms of life have ethics and morals.

And Christians have never had blind faith.

And eternity is a factor.

[life on mars]

Yet you have no clue why humans as opposed to lower forms of life have ethics and morals.

And Christians have never had blind faith.

And eternity is a factor.

Well we know Christians are not safe to practice their alleged blind faith freely in many muslim countries, their persecution is quite troubling , “the inconvenient. truth” is that the overwhelming majority – up to 80% or some 245 million – of persecuted religious believers around the world today are Christians. His report went on to suggest that the situation is “arguably coming close to meeting the international definition of genocide”....

No marches for them though .. its not cause that gets folk going or use as a political tool to hijack it for political gain and reaction.

[Wash DC Blue]

For 20 or so years the accepted wisdom - provided by the scientific community - was that everything started with the 'big bang'. Disgracefully some people dared ask 'what was there before the big bang ?'. They came up with 'there was another big bang before that one.". Well that's settled that then !!

This has always been at the crux of things for me.
Conversely people could ask how god came into being.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

A lack of faith is inaccurate as all individuals place faith in multiple things on a daily basis.
More specifically, it's the desire to believe that I am not accountable to any greater being, so I can live my life without any ultimate consequences whatsoever.

We are talking about theology, if you hadn't noticed
As for the lack of consequences, that's absolute baloney. Japan is less religious than most of Europe but has a lower crime rate.
And most atheists and agnostics don't go around murdering people as they fear no deity. You really have to up your intellectual game, old fruit.