40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

[Taunton Blue Genie]

The Jews are still awaiting the Messiah. AIUI Jewish scholars claim that there are a number of translation errors from the original Hebrew which in turn nullify some of the claims about Jesus fulfilling the OT prophesies about the Messiah. Also the Jews expected their Messiah to come as a powerful king who would raise an army to rid Israel of the Roman occupation. Instead Jesus came as the exact opposite - a servant figure, who paradoxically caused them trouble by starting to stir up the population and thereby threatening the status and power that the religious hierarchy enjoyed at that time. By having him executed by the Romans they thought that would be the end of their troubles.

I suppose logically then the Jews could not accept the New Testament as to them it was based on at best a misinterpretation and at worst a lie.

C.S. Lewis popularized the argument that Jesus was either a liar or a lunatic or the Messiah. I think it was Dawkins who added a fourth possibility – that he was deluded. From what I read from the gospels he was not a lunatic.

He could have been a convincing liar I suppose but he “put his money where his mouth was” in the compassionate way he dealt with people and the miracles of healing he performed. Also if he was a liar what did he hope to gain by deceit – not a lot it seems!

Deluded – well that might be arguable bar for the fact that he was resurrected after being dead for 3 days. That would take some delusion on his part I would say!

Hence I believe he was the Messiah and the New Testament is a true account of his life and works. Maybe the Jews will accept him when he returns in the Second Coming as it is will not be anything like the previous one and more in line with Jewish expectations of what the Messiah will be like perhaps?

I know the background of the Torah and the perspective of the Jews. I just wondered why you don't have their take on things. Is it because you were introduced to the Bible as a compendium as a child?

[truthpaste]

Yes, behaviour that benefits a whole group plays a huge part.

Yet again you don't actually address the question but you do constantly complain that the masses don't come anywhere near your intellectual heights.

If you actually have the latter then why do you constantly fail in the former?

[truthpaste]

I think he reconciles his perspective very well and can easily explain the primitive impulses in play regarding our ancestral evolution and the more complex and nuanced behaviour we are capable of due to our intelligence and intellect. I think the failure here is your lack of understanding of his perspective rather than his perspective per se.

John Lennox has made mincemeat of your 'high priest' on more than one occasion - in this example, Lennox states to Dawkins that evolution does NOT explain the origin of life - please avoid as usual if you wish to preserve your chosen delusion.

Dawkins tries to debate John Lennox

[Taunton Blue Genie]

John Lennox has made mincemeat of your 'high priest' on more than one occasion - in this example, Lennox states to Dawkins that evolution does NOT explain the origin of life - please avoid as usual if you wish to preserve your chosen delusion.

Dawkins tries to debate John Lennox

He's not my high priest, old fruit. I have never suggested as much. You have made that up completely. No surprises there. The delusion is all yours.
Why don't you read what I write rather than imagining what I write? Surely you can manage that.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

John Lennox has made mincemeat of your 'high priest' on more than one occasion - in this example, Lennox states to Dawkins that evolution does NOT explain the origin of life - please avoid as usual if you wish to preserve your chosen delusion.

Dawkins tries to debate John Lennox

I'll have a look at that video but is it the case that you deny evolution but believe in the talking snake?

[Gofer Blue]

I know the background of the Torah and the perspective of the Jews. I just wondered why you don't have their take on things. Is it because you were introduced to the Bible as a compendium as a child?

With apologies for the lengthy reply:

Yes, like most of my generation I attended Sunday School when I was a child. At secondary school my favourite subjects were the sciences, in particular biology, and although the biological processes involving DNA and RNA were only really just beginning to be understood, Darwinian evolution seemed to tick all the boxes about life for me. Consequently I abandoned any interest in religion/creation theory.

I was in my mid-30's (nearly 20 years later) when my wife, who had never had any exposure to, or interest in, religion of any form at all (apart from school assemblies I guess) decided that our two young children who were 5 and 6 years old at the time should go to Sunday School. As they were young and we had just moved to a new town, they were very clingy to her, she went along with them. It also gave her the opportunity to meet other young mums as we didn't know anyone then. To cut a long story short, it wasn't long before she announced that she was a Christian and indeed there was a complete change in her, very similar I discovered much later, to the experience that the atheist Lee Strobel described about his wife.

Reluctantly I ended up being coerced into going to the church with her. There I met some, what I now call, “real” Christian people as opposed to “church going” people. I know it's become a rather well worn cliché, but they had something special about them, something I felt I needed. I met a man and his wife there who subsequently became close friends. I spent many hours with them debating the Christian faith, in particular the resurrection of Jesus, which of course is the cornerstone but of which I was highly skeptical! If that was a fabrication then Christianity is a baseless belief. So I made quite a detailed study of this and read the books by Frank Morrison and Lee Strobel. These were both written by non-believing skeptics like myself, so quite influential.

Then one day I was driving my car concentrating on the road with nothing particular on my mind except for getting to work on time, when the most incredible feeling came over me. To this day I cannot explain what happened and no doubt skeptics will dismiss it as some random pharmacological/electrical event in my brain. My heart literally felt as if it would burst – it was just like the experience of falling in love for the first time and I had an incredible feeling of warmth and peace came over me, not just peace per se but a sense that everything was ok and under control with no need to worry. Now I know that some Christians claim to have God speaking to them several times a day every day but I can honestly say this was a one-off “Damascus road” experience which has never happened since. Dismiss it if you will, but I can tell you it was real and life-changing! The rest is history as they say.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

John Lennox has made mincemeat of your 'high priest' on more than one occasion - in this example, Lennox states to Dawkins that evolution does NOT explain the origin of life - please avoid as usual if you wish to preserve your chosen delusion.

Dawkins tries to debate John Lennox

Where's part two?

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

With apologies for the lengthy reply:

Yes, like most of my generation I attended Sunday School when I was a child. At secondary school my favourite subjects were the sciences, in particular biology, and although the biological processes involving DNA and RNA were only really just beginning to be understood, Darwinian evolution seemed to tick all the boxes about life for me. Consequently I abandoned any interest in religion/creation theory.

I was in my mid-30's (nearly 20 years later) when my wife, who had never had any exposure to, or interest in, religion of any form at all (apart from school assemblies I guess) decided that our two young children who were 5 and 6 years old at the time should go to Sunday School. As they were young and we had just moved to a new town, they were very clingy to her, she went along with them. It also gave her the opportunity to meet other young mums as we didn't know anyone then. To cut a long story short, it wasn't long before she announced that she was a Christian and indeed there was a complete change in her, very similar I discovered much later, to the experience that the atheist Lee Strobel described about his wife.

Reluctantly I ended up being coerced into going to the church with her. There I met some, what I now call, “real” Christian people as opposed to “church going” people. I know it's become a rather well worn cliché, but they had something special about them, something I felt I needed. I met a man and his wife there who subsequently became close friends. I spent many hours with them debating the Christian faith, in particular the resurrection of Jesus, which of course is the cornerstone but of which I was highly skeptical! If that was a fabrication then Christianity is a baseless belief. So I made quite a detailed study of this and read the books by Frank Morrison and Lee Strobel. These were both written by non-believing skeptics like myself, so quite influential.

Then one day I was driving my car concentrating on the road with nothing particular on my mind except for getting to work on time, when the most incredible feeling came over me. To this day I cannot explain what happened and no doubt skeptics will dismiss it as some random pharmacological/electrical event in my brain. My heart literally felt as if it would burst – it was just like the experience of falling in love for the first time and I had an incredible feeling of warmth and peace came over me, not just peace per se but a sense that everything was ok and under control with no need to worry. Now I know that some Christians claim to have God speaking to them several times a day every day but I can honestly say this was a one-off “Damascus road” experience which has never happened since. Dismiss it if you will, but I can tell you it was real and life-changing! The rest is history as they say.

Why is this related to any belief or existence of God ?

People who have no interest in , belief of or adherence to any God , faith or lifestyle talk of moments of peace , self awareness ......enlightenment ......

Why do you think that people who are not believers can't go through such experiences ?

It's a human experience and not particular to religious people

[truthpaste]

Where's part two?

Here is the FULL DEBATE Dawkins v Lennox

[Taunton Blue Genie]

I'll have a look at that video but is it the case that you deny evolution but believe in the talking snake?

The video was a one-sided and childishly edited piece and featured only someone who believes in miracles.
Pretty feeble.

Why the 'Good Lord" intervened in Israel in Bronze-aged times but sits back and does diddly squat in 2023 when thousands of children are being slaughtered following a heinous attack in the first place is anyone's guess. Still, if you believe in talking donkeys, people being turned to pillars of salt and virgin births, I am sure there is some platitudinous reason as to why the Abrahamic god is happy to just watch.

By the way, the Christian church once tortured people who claimed that the Earth revolved around the Sun.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Here is the FULL DEBATE Dawkins v Lennox

Well that's just a load of twaddle

Absolutely nothing in that at all

What sort of Dr is this bloke ?

[truthpaste]

The video was a one-sided and childishly edited piece and featured only someone who believes in miracles.
Pretty feeble.

Why the 'Good Lord" intervened in Israel in Bronze-aged times but sits back and does diddly squat in 2023 when thousands of children are being slaughtered following a heinous attack in the first place is anyone's guess. Still, if you believe in talking donkeys, people being turned to pillars of salt and virgin births, I am sure there is some platitudinous reason as to why the Abrahamic god is happy to just watch.

By the way, the Christian church once tortured people who claimed that the Earth revolved around the Sun.

Very revealing, now I am aware of what you consider the Christian Church to be.
You see man-made religion and nothing more.

I trust that will change, otherwise you will never understand.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Very revealing, now I am aware of what you consider the Christian Church to be.
You see man-made religion and nothing more.

I trust that will change, otherwise you will never understand.

You are just a gullible chump who believes in talking snakes, virgin births and Noah living almost a thousand years.

[truthpaste]

Well that's just a load of twaddle

Absolutely nothing in that at all

What sort of Dr is this bloke ?

Just when you suggest that you are going to give serious consideration to an issue, you then flip back into an adolescent mindset?

Thanks for saving me a few hundred hours, I hope for your sake you get a ten minute departure into a suitable mindset to work out a robust stance on this and other crucial matters.

As for your Question re Lennnox, have you been banned from Google?

[truthpaste]

You are just a gullible chump who believes in talking snakes, virgin births and Noah living almost a thousand years.

Gullible eh. Looking in the mirror again?

And even if you lived 950 years, it seems you would still be swimming without any answers in the same toxic soup.

Back in your bottle.

[Gofer Blue]

Why is this related to any belief or existence of God ?

People who have no interest in , belief of or adherence to any God , faith or lifestyle talk of moments of peace , self awareness ......enlightenment ......

Why do you think that people who are not believers can't go through such experiences ?

It's a human experience and not particular to religious people

I don't think that, nor did I say that, did I! It's just that I have never had an experience like it before or since. It just so happened it came at the very time I was wrestling with last minute questions and doubts about the Christian faith, so in fact I was a non-believer at the time! Obviously easily dismissed by any skeptics out there (I would have been one of them actually) but it happened to me and the effect was life changing.

P.S. On other important issues - what the heck happened to City today. Listened on Cardiff City TV. Couldn't believe it. Two moments of madness indeed!

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

I don't think that, nor did I say that, did I! It's just that I have never had an experience like it before or since. It just so happened it came at the very time I was wrestling with last minute questions and doubts about the Christian faith, so in fact I was a non-believer at the time! Obviously easily dismissed by any skeptics out there (I would have been one of them actually) but it happened to me and the effect was life changing.

P.S. On other important issues - what the heck happened to City today. Listened on Cardiff City TV. Couldn't believe it. Two moments of madness indeed!

Cardiff City , far more complex than your search for the white bearded bloke !

[jon1959]

This thread has been highjacked - 100%.

Tonight the genocide has reached new depths.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

This thread has been highjacked - 100%.

Tonight the genocide has reached new depths.

It's grim beyond words and I apologise for my part regarding the thread going off subject.

[pipster]

It has (been hijacked) but this "And even if you lived 950 years, it seems you would still be swimming without any answers in the same toxic soup."
Certainly seemed to sum one a certain individual.
Time for this thread to be locked or deleted.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

It's grim beyond words and I apologise for my part regarding the thread going off subject.

Don't be daft

[JamesWales]

I rather lost track of it all..

[Tuerto]

This thread has been highjacked - 100%.

Tonight the genocide has reached new depths.

Yup, people saying the same stuff they always say as well, nothing new and ironically, zero tolerance or understanding for each others beliefs. Pretty sad and quite telling really in a thread about the genocide being carried out in Palestine.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

I rather lost track of it all..

You have been too busy lying low after having your arse roasted

[JamesWales]

You have been too busy lying low after having your arse roasted

Your definition of a roasting is getting worse. Im guessing you don't cook much. Can't blame someone for wanting to take a few hours away from a horrible old rotter like you amyway, can you?