"I'm convinced that death is not the end for us whatever happens after that"

[truthpaste]

Your first statement is correct. As for 2 and 3? I don’t even know where to begin with those. When I’ve stopped laughing I might get around to addressing them.

Your claim that there is no God is simply wishful thinking as (like most people) you would rather not be held accountable for your thoughts & deeds.

With 2 there is historical evidence, so laugh all you like.

With 3 you will need to address this as it remains complete froth with no logical evidence for it's *origin even if these entities prove to be unmentioned in Scripture. I'll await your explanation.

*How these entities supposedly came to be.

[jon1959]

Your claim that there is no God is simply wishful thinking as (like most people) you would rather not be held accountable for your thoughts & deeds.

With 2 there is historical evidence, so laugh all you like.

With 3 you will need to address this as it remains complete froth with no logical evidence for it's *origin even if these entities prove to be unmentioned in Scripture. I'll await your explanation.

*How these entities supposedly came to be.

Your claim that there is a god is simply wishful thinking based on yor terror of death and irrational belief that you will be able to bore rigid anyone in earshot ( or the online version of earshot) for an eternity. Not even the most fabulous made-up god could be that cruel!

[stevo]

Your claim that there is no God is simply wishful thinking as (like most people) you would rather not be held accountable for your thoughts & deeds.

There's no correlation between those two things afaic. And no wishful thinking on my part - just basic, common sense. As for accountability, I hold myself accountable. I know that I am a good person. I have morals. There's a name for this and you know it - humanism.

With 2 [All your 'evidences' are a million miles from a Man living among us for 33 years and proving all that He declared to be true including His power over death] there is historical evidence, so laugh all you like.

How can you say that? You're talking about a man who lived 2000 years ago and you'd rather believe him than thousands of people alive today. And all you can do is quote a 2000+ year old book - how many times do we have to keep making this point? My evidences come from testimonies of thousands of people living TODAY. In fact, there is way more proof that aliens exist than God does. No, correction - in fact, there's zero proof that God exists. I don't need to tell you this, but your faith in God is just that - faith. That's the whole premise of religion isn't it, including yours (yes, I know yours isn't an organised religion, but so). Happy is the man who has not seen and yet believes. Right?

With 3 you will need to address this as it remains complete froth with no logical evidence for it's *origin even if these entities prove to be unmentioned in Scripture. I'll await your explanation.

*How these entities supposedly came to be.

Sorry, how are Christ's claims verifiable exactly? If they were, we would all be believers, right? It's laughable that you refer to all my claims as froth. As I said above, there is evidence to support mine, unlike yours. The fact that aliens are not mentioned in the Bible (actually - a lot of it could be interpreted as such, but that's another conversation), doesn't mean to say that they're not real. The idea of a collective consciousness that is everlasting is entirely logical to me - the idea that there is a supreme being is not.

A lot of remote viewing experiences actually confirm a lot of things written in the Bible. But they also offer a more compelling alternative view, which includes alien involvement. We're not too far away from alien disclosure, so maybe we can return to this topic then?

[truthpaste]

You say you KNOW that you are a good person?

What is your definition of GOOD and how do you know you fall into that bracket?

* I will address your other points once this first issue is clarified.

[stevo]

What is your definition of GOOD and how do you know you fall into that bracket?

At first, I thought what a bizarre question to ask. But then the more I thought about it, the more I realised my definition of a good person will be different from yours, so thanks for asking.

For me, a good person is one who puts others before themselves so is kind and considerate. One who identifies when people are in need and goes out of their way to help out. This is why I could ever vote for a right wing party as these are people just put themselves and their country first over others.

A good person will not judge others on their age, gender, sexuality or race. If I was to be politically correct here, I should include religion here too, but I can't. For example, I cannot respect people who deny their innocent children from life saving medical treatment and are happy to put their child's fate in God's hands. That to me, is just pure evil. Besides, those first four characteristics are ones that people have no choice over. Religion on the other hand is one that people do have a choice by the time they get to a certain age, where they can draw their own conclusions. But at the risk of stating the obvious, being of a religious persuasion doesn't make you either a good or bad person. That's down to the individual.

That said, I'm not perfect, but then nobody is. Sometimes I wish I could control my anger better. The things that get me angry are all bad things happening in the world. Violence and hatred is everywhere including but not limited to the Middle East, Ukraine and parts of Africa. Everything is so divisive these days and I no doubt play my part in that by calling out the likes of the Tories, Reform, Trump and the whole MAGA movement. Sometimes I wish I could be more like a Buddhist. Ever seen a Buddhist get angry? Lots to learn from them, I think.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

At first, I thought what a bizarre question to ask. But then the more I thought about it, the more I realised my definition of a good person will be different from yours, so thanks for asking.

For me, a good person is one who puts others before themselves so is kind and considerate. One who identifies when people are in need and goes out of their way to help out. This is why I could ever vote for a right wing party as these are people just put themselves and their country first over others.

A good person will not judge others on their age, gender, sexuality or race. If I was to be politically correct here, I should include religion here too, but I can't. For example, I cannot respect people who deny their innocent children from life saving medical treatment and are happy to put their child's fate in God's hands. That to me, is just pure evil. Besides, those first four characteristics are ones that people have no choice over. Religion on the other hand is one that people do have a choice by the time they get to a certain age, where they can draw their own conclusions. But at the risk of stating the obvious, being of a religious persuasion doesn't make you either a good or bad person. That's down to the individual.

That said, I'm not perfect, but then nobody is. Sometimes I wish I could control my anger better. The things that get me angry are all bad things happening in the world. Violence and hatred is everywhere including but not limited to the Middle East, Ukraine and parts of Africa. Everything is so divisive these days and I no doubt play my part in that by calling out the likes of the Tories, Reform, Trump and the whole MAGA movement. Sometimes I wish I could be more like a Buddhist. Ever seen a Buddhist get angry? Lots to learn from them, I think.

Do you think that being a Christian is incompatible with having an unpleasant persona, Stevo?

[stevo]

Nah, some Christians are good people, some are pure evil. Like I said, it's down to the individual, not the religion itself.

[truthpaste]

Do you think that being a Christian is incompatible with having an unpleasant persona, Stevo?

Someone who doesn't suffer fools gladly is following Godly wisdom; it may seem to be harsh to the listener, but yelling loudly at someone who is walking casually towards a cliff edge may at first seem out of place, but in the end it is showing concern for the safety of the individual, which is quite the opposite.
Furthermore, someone highlighting the glaring contraditions in a world view is being the opposite of 'unpleasant'.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Someone who doesn't suffer fools gladly is following Godly wisdom; it may seem to be harsh to the listener, but yelling loudly at someone who is walking casually towards a cliff edge may at first seem out of place, but in the end it is showing concern for the safety of the individual, which is quite the opposite.
Furthermore, someone highlighting the glaring contraditions in a world view is being the opposite of 'unpleasant'.

Nah. You are simply unpleasant, dishonest and have been caught lying repeatedly. Not very Christian at all.

[truthpaste]

At first, I thought what a bizarre question to ask. But then the more I thought about it, the more I realised my definition of a good person will be different from yours, so thanks for asking.

For me, a good person is one who puts others before themselves so is kind and considerate. One who identifies when people are in need and goes out of their way to help out. This is why I could ever vote for a right wing party as these are people just put themselves and their country first over others.

A good person will not judge others on their age, gender, sexuality or race. If I was to be politically correct here, I should include religion here too, but I can't. For example, I cannot respect people who deny their innocent children from life saving medical treatment and are happy to put their child's fate in God's hands. That to me, is just pure evil. Besides, those first four characteristics are ones that people have no choice over. Religion on the other hand is one that people do have a choice by the time they get to a certain age, where they can draw their own conclusions. But at the risk of stating the obvious, being of a religious persuasion doesn't make you either a good or bad person. That's down to the individual.

That said, I'm not perfect, but then nobody is. Sometimes I wish I could control my anger better. The things that get me angry are all bad things happening in the world. Violence and hatred is everywhere including but not limited to the Middle East, Ukraine and parts of Africa. Everything is so divisive these days and I no doubt play my part in that by calling out the likes of the Tories, Reform, Trump and the whole MAGA movement. Sometimes I wish I could be more like a Buddhist. Ever seen a Buddhist get angry? Lots to learn from them, I think.

Thanks for investing your consideration into the question instead of what can be knee jerk reactions by some on this and other boards.

When called 'good' by one individual, Jesus asked - "Why do you call me good?” ... “Only God is truly good".

You also said, "But at the risk of stating the obvious, being of a religious persuasion doesn't make you either a good or bad person. That's down to the individual".

I would say, any religion that says you can become religious and therefore be accepted by God as good enough is 100% lying to you. When Jesus met a very religious man to attending the local temple three times each day (!!) He didn't congratulate him, he told him he lacked something.

You see, like you, Nicodemus (in John 3) was a very "good" person, but Jesus told Him (in effect), to be accepted by God He needed a to be born again/ born from above, or if you like, he required a 'heart' operation. This would give him new priorities, a new direction, the power of God working within him and a new final destination.

Of course unlike you Nicodemus was extremely religious, but in the end, his religion only gave him false hope, Nicodemus knew there was an Almighty God, he knew lots about this Almighty God, but he didn't yet KNOW this God, ie he didn't know Him personally!
Yet stood in front of him was Jesus Christ, as Matthew 1:23 wrote of Him, 'Immanuel, God with us'.

Then you said, "I'm not perfect, but then nobody is. Sometimes I wish I could control my anger better. The things that get me angry are all bad things happening in the world. Violence and hatred is everywhere"

Even if you choose to repent and serve Christ for all your earthly days you won't ever be perfect down here, but thankfully that's not the aim anyway. Peter before he received the Holy Spirit was hot headed and often acted before he thought. After he accepted Christ and had the Holy Spirit he was a powerful evangelist, but he was still in some ways that hot headed individual. God starts working on us and we do change in some ways, but God isn't looking to wipe our 'hard drive' and replace it with Mr Perfect! Thankfully He accepts us just as we are, warts and all. As you will have noticed, my feisty no nonsense approach is very different to some Christians, but just as there was room for a John & Paul who were more measured as individuals, there was also room for the occasionally impetuous Peter.

[truthpaste]

Nah. You are simply unpleasant, dishonest and have been caught lying repeatedly. Not very Christian at all.

Whereas you have constantly been caught running from the meat of many conversations while spewing meaningless comments into them anyway! Furthermore I have not been caught lying at all, maybe I have by the Kangaroo Court that seems to inhabit your mind; but the one who pulls the strings in there was a liar from the beginning; so I fully understand why you think as you do.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Whereas you have constantly been caught running from the meat of many conversations while spewing meaningless comments into them anyway! Furthermore I have not been caught lying at all, maybe I have by the Kangaroo Court that seems to inhabit your mind; but the one who pulls the strings in there was a liar from the beginning; so I fully understand why you think as you do.

No kangarooo court involved. You made a number of accusations and when challenged couldn't evidence them. Game over.

[stevo]

Thanks for investing your consideration into the question instead of what can be knee jerk reactions by some on this and other boards.

When called 'good' by one individual, Jesus asked - "Why do you call me good?” ... “Only God is truly good".

You also said, "But at the risk of stating the obvious, being of a religious persuasion doesn't make you either a good or bad person. That's down to the individual".

I would say, any religion that says you can become religious and therefore be accepted by God as good enough is 100% lying to you. When Jesus met a very religious man to attending the local temple three times each day (!!) He didn't congratulate him, he told him he lacked something.

You see, like you, Nicodemus (in John 3) was a very "good" person, but Jesus told Him (in effect), to be accepted by God He needed a to be born again/ born from above, or if you like, he required a 'heart' operation. This would give him new priorities, a new direction, the power of God working within him and a new final destination.

Of course unlike you Nicodemus was extremely religious, but in the end, his religion only gave him false hope, Nicodemus knew there was an Almighty God, he knew lots about this Almighty God, but he didn't yet KNOW this God, ie he didn't know Him personally!
Yet stood in front of him was Jesus Christ, as Matthew 1:23 wrote of Him, 'Immanuel, God with us'.

Then you said, "I'm not perfect, but then nobody is. Sometimes I wish I could control my anger better. The things that get me angry are all bad things happening in the world. Violence and hatred is everywhere"

Even if you choose to repent and serve Christ for all your earthly days you won't ever be perfect down here, but thankfully that's not the aim anyway. Peter before he received the Holy Spirit was hot headed and often acted before he thought. After he accepted Christ and had the Holy Spirit he was a powerful evangelist, but he was still in some ways that hot headed individual. God starts working on us and we do change in some ways, but God isn't looking to wipe our 'hard drive' and replace it with Mr Perfect! Thankfully He accepts us just as we are, warts and all. As you will have noticed, my feisty no nonsense approach is very different to some Christians, but just as there was room for a John & Paul who were more measured as individuals, there was also room for the occasionally impetuous Peter.

I think your definition of a good person is hidden in there somewhere, but you’re not making this obvious.

For me though, I’m not looking to be accepted by God because I don’t believe he exists. So, by your definition does that make me a bad person? I don’t think so.

As a side note, I apparently received the Holy Spirit when I was baptised and confirmed. I believed this to be the case at the time of my confirmation but obviously I no longer do. Does that mean I am a good person in your eyes? Probably not.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

I think your definition of a good person is hidden in there somewhere, but you’re not making this obvious.

For me though, I’m not looking to be accepted by God because I don’t believe he exists. So, by your definition does that make me a bad person? I don’t think so.

As a side note, I apparently received the Holy Spirit when I was baptised and confirmed. I believed this to be the case at the time of my confirmation but obviously I no longer do. Does that mean I am a good person in your eyes? Probably not.

If truthpaste's god (and it couldn't be a 'he' in reality as gender in the ethereal world would be meaningless) does exist we can only hope that our plights on Judgement Day will be decided on real things that we have said and done as opposed to total fabrications.......

[truthpaste]

I think your definition of a good person is hidden in there somewhere, but you’re not making this obvious.

For me though, I’m not looking to be accepted by God because I don’t believe he exists. So, by your definition does that make me a bad person? I don’t think so.

As a side note, I apparently received the Holy Spirit when I was baptised and confirmed. I believed this to be the case at the time of my confirmation but obviously I no longer do. Does that mean I am a good person in your eyes? Probably not.

Ok, for clarity let's put aside my 'eyes' - if you do meet God (and the Bible and the claims of Christ have to be invalid for that to not happen) then my opinion is not the issue, it's the truth and God's views that WILL count.

OK, I appreciate that you've eliminated the role of God from your current thinking; yet you are left with two key issues:-

1. I don't see you currently having a robust or logical alternative for the creator/ sustainer of time, matter & space. Your current model simply points to alien life, and of course angels (for example), as they are not human, fall into that category. The Bible records fallen angels seriously interfering with mankind on more than one occasion, and very dramatically, so how do you know that your chosen 'deities' are not simply fallen angels feeding you the 'doctrines of demons'?

2. The Holy Spirit does not enter humans at the point of Baptism. That was something taught to you by religious individuals who obviously didn't understand God's Word. I can understand why you parked religious 'christianity' or churchianity as some label it, because it makes zero sense!

Does that mean I am a good person in your eyes? Probably not.

The Bible reveals to us that none of us are good people, it doesn't matter if we are atheist, agnostic, theistic or born again believers; 'for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God' - the word sinner is used in sport, archery to be exact; it is called out when an arrow falls short of the target. We ALL FALL SHORT!

This is why we need a Saviour, we are not going to make it on our own, no matter how clued up, successful, powerful, wealthy or wise we may be; Jesus said, "I am the Way" - there is no plan B.

[stevo]

1. I don't see you currently having a robust or logical alternative for the creator/ sustainer of time, matter & space. Your current model simply points to alien life, and of course angels (for example), as they are not human, fall into that category. The Bible records fallen angels seriously interfering with mankind on more than one occasion, and very dramatically, so how do you know that your chosen 'deities' are not simply fallen angels feeding you the 'doctrines of demons'?

Why does there have to be creator at all? And my model doesn't just point to alien life, far from it. I'm saying that the consciousness of all living things is eternal. There is no greater being, we are all just one.

2. The Holy Spirit does not enter humans at the point of Baptism. That was something taught to you by religious individuals who obviously didn't understand God's Word. I can understand why you parked religious 'christianity' or churchianity as some label it, because it makes zero sense!

So, enlighten us. When does the Holy Spirit enter a person, like it did with Peter? And please specify why I suspect you believe this is only happens for Evangelists like yourself and not other types of Christians?

The Bible reveals to us that none of us are good people[/B], it doesn't matter if we are atheist, agnostic, theistic or born again believers; 'for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God' - the word sinner is used in sport, archery to be exact; it is called out when an arrow falls short of the target. We ALL FALL SHORT!

Well, I completely disagree with the Bible. I am a good person, whether the Bible thinks otherwise or not.

As a side note - are you aware of how condescending your posts can be at times, especially towards other types of Christians? I'm not offended by it, but it doesn't make you come across as a good person at all. But then, none of us are, right? Please take on board this little nugget before posting again

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Why does there have to be creator at all? And my model doesn't just point to alien life, far from it. I'm saying that the consciousness of all living things is eternal. There is no greater being, we are all just one.




So, enlighten us. When does the Holy Spirit enter a person, like it did with Peter? And please specify why I suspect you believe this is only happens for Evangelists like yourself and not other types of Christians?




Well, I completely disagree with the Bible. I am a good person, whether the Bible thinks otherwise or not.

As a side note - are you aware of how condescending your posts can be at times, especially towards other types of Christians? I'm not offended by it, but it doesn't make you come across as a good person at all. But then, none of us are, right? Please take on board this little nugget before posting again

You are born as a sinner, old fruit. That's the Christian schtick. You pop out of the womb and are partly responsible for what took place in the garden of Eden. Guilty from the off with the Great Jehovah, I'm afraid.

[truthpaste]

Why does there have to be creator at all? And my model doesn't just point to alien life, far from it. I'm saying that the consciousness of all living things is eternal. There is no greater being, we are all just one.




So, enlighten us. When does the Holy Spirit enter a person, like it did with Peter? And please specify why I suspect you believe this is only happens for Evangelists like yourself and not other types of Christians?


Well, I completely disagree with the Bible. I am a good person, whether the Bible thinks otherwise or not.

As a side note - are you aware of how condescending your posts can be at times, especially towards other types of Christians? I'm not offended by it, but it doesn't make you come across as a good person at all. But then, none of us are, right? Please take on board this little nugget before posting again

Other types of Christians?

I see, so as the word Christian by definition means 'follower of Christ', I have chosen that path, so who do these other Christians follow?

[stevo]

Other types of Christians?

I see, so as the word Christian by definition means 'follower of Christ', I have chosen that path, so who do these other Christians follow?

You tell me seeing as you’re so condescending towards them.

[truthpaste]

Stevo, all I have said is: The Bible reveals to us that none of us are good people, it doesn't matter if we are atheist, agnostic, theistic or born again believers; 'for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God' - the word sinner is used in sport, archery to be exact; it is called out when an arrow falls short of the target. We ALL FALL SHORT!

This is why we need a Saviour, we are not going to make it on our own, no matter how clued up, successful, powerful, wealthy or wise we may be; Jesus said, "I am the Way" - there is no plan B.

How is any of that being condescending towards anyone else who is following Christ?

As the great Charles H. Spurgeon said, “Every Christian is either a missionary or an imposter.”

I can only assume you are referring to the imposters.

[jeepster]

Stevo, all I have said is: The Bible reveals to us that none of us are good people, it doesn't matter if we are atheist, agnostic, theistic or born again believers; 'for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God' - the word sinner is used in sport, archery to be exact; it is called out when an arrow falls short of the target. We ALL FALL SHORT!

This is why we need a Saviour, we are not going to make it on our own, no matter how clued up, successful, powerful, wealthy or wise we may be; Jesus said, "I am the Way" - there is no plan B.

How is any of that being condescending towards anyone else who is following Christ?

As the great Charles H. Spurgeon said, “Every Christian is either a missionary or an imposter.”

I can only assume you are referring to the imposters.

It is imposible to talk to you every thing goes back to the book.
So entrenched you just do not listen to anyone very disturbing.

[jon1959]

It is imposible to talk to you every thing goes back to the book.
So entrenched you just do not listen to anyone very disturbing.

To be fair to Truthpaste he has narrowed down his role to one of two options. He’s got all the wrong positions for a missionary (hard to think of someone less like Michael Palin) so he is obviously an imposter!

And a small minded, reactionary cult member!

[truthpaste]

It is imposible to talk to you every thing goes back to the book.
So entrenched you just do not listen to anyone very disturbing.

Christian puts God's opinion above that of flawed individuals shocker!

And I don't only listen to opinions (including the insulting type) on here, but I address them too.
If only the agnostics could try that for one day.

[jeepster]

Christian puts God's opinion above that of flawed individuals shocker!

And I don't only listen to opinions (including the insulting type) on here, but I address them too.
If only the agnostics could try that for one day.

This nail on head because i do not agree with you i am flawed.
Yet you keep pumping out unproven fables.

[truthpaste]

This nail on head because i do not agree with you i am flawed.
Yet you keep pumping out unproven fables.

I get it, life and eternity would be a lot less complicated for you if God's Word (the Bible) turned out to be fiction.
Well consider this; you won't be the first person to prove it is, so the sooner you get with the program the better.