Derby County tonight!

[Bobby Dandruff]

Wonder if derby quality has improved or if its down to their manager?

I know lots here think we just don't have the players to be mid table but I wonder how derby would be doing with riza as their manager.

For me apart from the top 2 or 3 this season the rest is just about management and coaching. The players and squads are all the same.

Hence why Coventry were just outside relegation at Xmas now they are going up with a new manager. Same players.

Quite. This is all on the manager and the people who appointed him.

The players are definitely good enough.

Which makes it all the more annoying especially when you consider how dreadful most of the teams are in this league.

[the other bob wilson]

Quite. This is all on the manager and the people who appointed him.

The players are definitely good enough.

Which makes it all the more annoying especially when you consider how dreadful most of the teams are in this league.

Can you list the things which make these players “definitely good enough” please? I’ll help you on your way by saying that since we lost to Sheffield United just before Christmas, we’ve only failed to score in one league game, at Leeds. That.s impressive and should be the base on which an escape from the relegation zone could be based, but two clean sheets in league games since the only time we kept the opposition out in an away league games, West Brom in late October, renders that ability to score in nearly all of our matches next to useless.

I’ve always believed that you can base how good or bad a squad is on the number of 1-0 wins they get. Even the most fluent and attractive teams have a share of matches where they don’t play well, but a sound defence can help them to a win in such games via a scruffy goal. Our well dodgy defence has meant that the 1-0 win is virtually out of the equation for us - there’s been just two of them, Millwall and Hull, all season.

A team with a record like that cannot be “definitely good enough” to stay up in my opinion - this is a record which cries out relegation and just blaming a current bottom three placing on the manager and the people who appointed him is akin to an ostrich sticking its head in the sand.

However, I now await your list of things which make this squad “definitely good enough” - perhaps you’ll be able to change my mind on the subject?

[DJ-Q]

Can you list the things which make these players “definitely good enough” please? I’ll help you on your way by saying that since we lost to Sheffield United just before Christmas, we’ve only failed to score in one league game, at Leeds. That.s impressive and should be the base on which an escape from the relegation zone could be based, but two clean sheets in league games since the only time we kept the opposition out in an away league games, West Brom in late October, renders that ability to score in nearly all of our matches next to useless.

I’ve always believed that you can base how good or bad a squad is on the number of 1-0 wins they get. Even the most fluent and attractive teams have a share of matches where they don’t play well, but a sound defence can help them to a win in such games via a scruffy goal. Our well dodgy defence has meant that the 1-0 win is virtually out of the equation for us - there’s been just two of them, Millwall and Hull, all season.

A team with a record like that cannot be “definitely good enough” to stay up in my opinion - this is a record which cries out relegation and just blaming a current bottom three placing on the manager and the people who appointed him is akin to an ostrich sticking its head in the sand.

However, I now await your list of things which make this squad “definitely good enough” - perhaps you’ll be able to change my mind on the subject?

I think a settled back four team selection and stronger defensive/set piece coaching would help to improve any defence - surely these 2 points are on the manager and people who appointed him?

[Bobby Dandruff]

Can you list the things which make these players “definitely good enough” please? I’ll help you on your way by saying that since we lost to Sheffield United just before Christmas, we’ve only failed to score in one league game, at Leeds. That.s impressive and should be the base on which an escape from the relegation zone could be based, but two clean sheets in league games since the only time we kept the opposition out in an away league games, West Brom in late October, renders that ability to score in nearly all of our matches next to useless.

I’ve always believed that you can base how good or bad a squad is on the number of 1-0 wins they get. Even the most fluent and attractive teams have a share of matches where they don’t play well, but a sound defence can help them to a win in such games via a scruffy goal. Our well dodgy defence has meant that the 1-0 win is virtually out of the equation for us - there’s been just two of them, Millwall and Hull, all season.

A team with a record like that cannot be “definitely good enough” to stay up in my opinion - this is a record which cries out relegation and just blaming a current bottom three placing on the manager and the people who appointed him is akin to an ostrich sticking its head in the sand.

However, I now await your list of things which make this squad “definitely good enough” - perhaps you’ll be able to change my mind on the subject?

Ok, well firstly this team (or a similar one at least) was good enough to finish mid table last year.

Secondly they were good enough to go on a mini run of decent results as soon as Bulut left.

Thirdly, so many Championship teams that I have seen this year are absolutely terrible, with worse players than ours.

And fourthly, we have got rid of the real rubbish (see Kanga for Salech etc). Whereas we still have some passenger (I’ll leave that to you to decide who) we have a starting XI easily capable of mid table.

Whereas the players aren’t world beaters there are enough players who are good enough for mid table but the manager isn’t and directionless leadership is responsible for not maximising the potential of the players.

The players of course are culpable too but I think that ignoring the fact that we have a very inexperienced manager who has regularly made poor in game decisions that most people can spot straight away is akin to an ostrich sticking its head in the sand.

There you go.

[Bobby Dandruff]

Ok, well firstly this team (or a similar one at least) was good enough to finish mid table last year.

Secondly they were good enough to go on a mini run of decent results as soon as Bulut left.

Thirdly, so many Championship teams that I have seen this year are absolutely terrible, with worse players than ours.

And fourthly, we have got rid of the real rubbish (see Kanga for Salech etc). Whereas we still have some passenger (I’ll leave that to you to decide who) we have a starting XI easily capable of mid table.

Whereas the players aren’t world beaters there are enough players who are good enough for mid table but the manager isn’t and directionless leadership is responsible for not maximising the potential of the players.

The players of course are culpable too but I think that ignoring the fact that we have a very inexperienced manager who has regularly made poor in game decisions that most people can spot straight away is akin to an ostrich sticking its head in the sand.

There you go.

Sorry one last point: whereas I have no axe to grind with Riza personally as he seems like a decent chap, I suspect that nearly every fan would agree that if we had appointed a more experienced or proven manager when Bulut left, then we would not be in this mess.

See Eustace at Derby and Rowett at Oxford. We’d likely be clear of trouble.

[Trigger]

For me we are about where we should be, I don't think this is a particularly better than relegation squad at all.

Last season there were large patches where we were awful, early form and bloody brilliant set pieces were the difference.

I also can't argue that with a different manager there would be enough gains to not be in this situation. The league for a lot of teams is much of a muchness and a few small changes could have changed our season.

But we have been here on and off for a few years now, and for that we can only blame the owner and his board.

[goats]

Ok, well firstly this team (or a similar one at least) was good enough to finish mid table last year.

Secondly they were good enough to go on a mini run of decent results as soon as Bulut left.

Thirdly, so many Championship teams that I have seen this year are absolutely terrible, with worse players than ours.

And fourthly, we have got rid of the real rubbish (see Kanga for Salech etc). Whereas we still have some passenger (I’ll leave that to you to decide who) we have a starting XI easily capable of mid table.

Whereas the players aren’t world beaters there are enough players who are good enough for mid table but the manager isn’t and directionless leadership is responsible for not maximising the potential of the players.

The players of course are culpable too but I think that ignoring the fact that we have a very inexperienced manager who has regularly made poor in game decisions that most people can spot straight away is akin to an ostrich sticking its head in the sand.

There you go.

The last two managers have been a disaster, probably the last five in fact, you can’t go on like that. I think we have some decent players but we lack the most basic need of a solid spine….

[A Quiet Monkfish]

All Eustace has asked Derby to do tonight is get the ball in the box and it's worked.
Riza on the other hand has us playing 4 different systems with 16 different players every game.

I can't help but think that Riza lacks the pragmatism of an experienced manager when setting up City for games. It all seems to be lots of inter-passing in midfield, the occasional overlapping full back, and then long periods of chasing the the ball. I don't rate our squad as high some do, but I'm coming round to the view that Riza wasn't the man to keep us up..

[North Cardiff Blue]

Sorry one last point: whereas I have no axe to grind with Riza personally as he seems like a decent chap, I suspect that nearly every fan would agree that if we had appointed a more experienced or proven manager when Bulut left, then we would not be in this mess.

See Eustace at Derby and Rowett at Oxford. We’d likely be clear of trouble.

Rowatt will be in trouble because he has a shit team, if Riza was there and Rowatt was there we would be safe by now and they would be relegated already.

[North Cardiff Blue]

The last two managers have been a disaster, probably the last five in fact, you can’t go on like that. I think we have some decent players but we lack the most basic need of a solid spine….

Bulut had us twelfth with a weaker squad, Riza has fecked us right up, he doesn't know his best back four.

[North Cardiff Blue]

Can you list the things which make these players “definitely good enough” please? I’ll help you on your way by saying that since we lost to Sheffield United just before Christmas, we’ve only failed to score in one league game, at Leeds. That.s impressive and should be the base on which an escape from the relegation zone could be based, but two clean sheets in league games since the only time we kept the opposition out in an away league games, West Brom in late October, renders that ability to score in nearly all of our matches next to useless.

I’ve always believed that you can base how good or bad a squad is on the number of 1-0 wins they get. Even the most fluent and attractive teams have a share of matches where they don’t play well, but a sound defence can help them to a win in such games via a scruffy goal. Our well dodgy defence has meant that the 1-0 win is virtually out of the equation for us - there’s been just two of them, Millwall and Hull, all season.

A team with a record like that cannot be “definitely good enough” to stay up in my opinion - this is a record which cries out relegation and just blaming a current bottom three placing on the manager and the people who appointed him is akin to an ostrich sticking its head in the sand.

However, I now await your list of things which make this squad “definitely good enough” - perhaps you’ll be able to change my mind on the subject?

An experienced Manager stabilises the best back four, tries to get the games to noil for the opposition, then works on set play goals and gradually builds up to more goals from open play. That way, you get lots of one-nil wins.

[North Cardiff Blue]

Wonder if derby quality has improved or if its down to their manager?

I know lots here think we just don't have the players to be mid table but I wonder how derby would be doing with riza as their manager.

For me apart from the top 2 or 3 this season the rest is just about management and coaching. The players and squads are all the same.

Hence why Coventry were just outside relegation at Xmas now they are going up with a new manager. Same players.

Derby has massively improved, while Blackburn are in freefall; of course, it's down to the Manager.

We haven't even got one, we've given the job to a newly appointed coach from Watford, who's seen so many Managers come in and out, that he's not sure which one was the best to try and copy.

[North Cardiff Blue]

Quite. This is all on the manager and the people who appointed him.

The players are definitely good enough.

Which makes it all the more annoying especially when you consider how dreadful most of the teams are in this league.

It's a decent squad, and should be mid-table plus, but we leak goals like a sieve and Riza and Purse haven't got the first clue who their best back four is and how to organise them into a Championship defence.

[Rock_Flock_of_Five]

I can't help but think that Riza lacks the pragmatism of an experienced manager when setting up City for games. It all seems to be lots of inter-passing in midfield, the occasional overlapping full back, and then long periods of chasing the the ball. I don't rate our squad as high some do, but I'm coming round to the view that Riza wasn't the man to keep us up..

To be honest, I haven't seen many on here rating the squad "high".
What some are saying is they are capable of better, I tend to agree with that.
No one could say that Riza is getting the best out of his players, in the same way Eustace is doing at Derby for example.

[Rjk]

I think a settled back four team selection and stronger defensive/set piece coaching would help to improve any defence - surely these 2 points are on the manager and people who appointed him?

The manager inherited almost all the coaching staff

[the other bob wilson]

Ok, well firstly this team (or a similar one at least) was good enough to finish mid table last year.

Secondly they were good enough to go on a mini run of decent results as soon as Bulut left.

Thirdly, so many Championship teams that I have seen this year are absolutely terrible, with worse players than ours.

And fourthly, we have got rid of the real rubbish (see Kanga for Salech etc). Whereas we still have some passenger (I’ll leave that to you to decide who) we have a starting XI easily capable of mid table.

Whereas the players aren’t world beaters there are enough players who are good enough for mid table but the manager isn’t and directionless leadership is responsible for not maximising the potential of the players.

The players of course are culpable too but I think that ignoring the fact that we have a very inexperienced manager who has regularly made poor in game decisions that most people can spot straight away is akin to an ostrich sticking its head in the sand.

There you go.

1. You're using your opinion as if you're qioting facts and so I'll do the same and say that last season was a freak in which the stats show us as consistently one of the weakest squads in the division - albeit a weak squad which was able to keep clean sheets, unlike this one.

2. Every side in the Championship goes on a mini run of good results at some time in the season - we've had two decent runs of results followed by the inevitable fall from grace because you cannot expect to have any concerted success when you only keep two clean sheets in twenty seven games.

3. That's your opinion about how poor other teams are. Mine is that we were lucky to beat Millwall, Norwich and Hull while I struggle to think of many we haven't won that we might have - maybe Stoke and Watford.

4. How can we have possibly have a starting eleven "easily capable of mid table?' when we can only keep two clean sheets every twenty seven games? These players aren't as good as you think they are.

In my opinion, Riza made a really big mistake in his third game in charge (Bristol City) and the worst thing about that is there's been few signs that he learned from it. As I mentioned we've had two decent to good spells this season, but, having started so poorly, they've both been followed by bad spells where the same old mistakes are repeated. Riza has made mistakes, but he's not been helped by a squad that keeps on repeating the sort of defensive mistakes I don't believe you can blame managers or coaches for when they keep on happening so regularly (always assuming the coaching staff have tried to sort things out on the training ground).

Having watched us defend for eight months now, it cannot be denied that we're hopeless at it. I also look at this team's character and they wilt too easily, they don't strike me as having the street wise credentials that are needed in this division and they are weak when it comes to basics like set pieces - I think most managers currently in this division would not be able to keep our current squad out of the bottom six.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Derby has massively improved, while Blackburn are in freefall; of course, it's down to the Manager

Last season we spent 6 months in freefall yet you kept your fingers in your ears, wouldn't listen to any reason and wanted Bulut to have a 2 year deal. Now we're supposed to keep taking notice of your opinions?

[Eric the Half a Bee]

1. You're using your opinion as if you're qioting facts and so I'll do the same and say that last season was a freak in which the stats show us as consistently one of the weakest squads in the division - albeit a weak squad which was able to keep clean sheets, unlike this one.

2. Every side in the Championship goes on a mini run of good results at some time in the season - we've had two decent runs of results followed by the inevitable fall from grace because you cannot expect to have any concerted success when you only keep two clean sheets in twenty seven games.

3. That's your opinion about how poor other teams are. Mine is that we were lucky to beat Millwall, Norwich and Hull while I struggle to think of many we haven't won that we might have - maybe Stoke and Watford.

4. How can we have possibly have a starting eleven "easily capable of mid table?' when we can only keep two clean sheets every twenty seven games? These players aren't as good as you think they are.

In my opinion, Riza made a really big mistake in his third game in charge (Bristol City) and the worst thing about that is there's been few signs that he learned from it. As I mentioned we've had two decent to good spells this season, but, having started so poorly, they've both been followed by bad spells where the same old mistakes are repeated. Riza has made mistakes, but he's not been helped by a squad that keeps on repeating the sort of defensive mistakes I don't believe you can blame managers or coaches for when they keep on happening so regularly (always assuming the coaching staff have tried to sort things out on the training ground).

Having watched us defend for eight months now, it cannot be denied that we're hopeless at it. I also look at this team's character and they wilt too easily, they don't strike me as having the street wise credentials that are needed in this division and they are weak when it comes to basics like set pieces - I think most managers currently in this division would not be able to keep our current squad out of the bottom six.

Finally some sense while lots seem to be losing theirs.

One little point about the bit highlighted.

Over the last 4 seasons only 4 sides have conceded more goals than us across all 4 divisions, that have played all 4 seasons in the league (so any sides in non-league not included). Last season we had the worst defensive record in this division for decades despite keeping 12 clean sheets. In 34 games where we did concede, we let in 70. That was an appalling record, which needed urgent improvement, so we sold our best centre back (McGuinness).

However, one messageboard regular reckoned Warnock would have them keeping clean sheets in 2 weeks

[North Cardiff Blue]

Last season we spent 6 months in freefall yet you kept your fingers in your ears, wouldn't listen to any reason and wanted Bulut to have a 2 year deal. Now we're supposed to keep taking notice of your opinions?

Judge a Manager over a season not ignore the good part and only look at the bad part, 12th is in the top half and the 22nd is in the relegation zone.

I said it's better to keep Bulut, because I didn't trust the morons running the club to pick another YTS apprentice and I was correct to be worried.

You wanted your man, Omer, look where that got us

All but relegated with a much better squad

[Rjk]

Judge a Manager over a season not ignore the good part and only look at the bad part, 12th is in the top half and the 22nd is in the relegation zone.

I said it's better to keep Bulut, because I didn't trust the morons running the club to pick another YTS apprentice and I was correct to be worried.

You wanted your man, Omer, look where that got us

All but relegated with a much better squad

If we judge Riza on what he's done this season we would be 16th.

how much better than that is our squad?

[North Cardiff Blue]

Finally some sense while lots seem to be losing theirs.

One little point about the bit highlighted.

Over the last 4 seasons only 4 sides have conceded more goals than us across all 4 divisions, that have played all 4 seasons in the league (so any sides in non-league not included). Last season we had the worst defensive record in this division for decades despite keeping 12 clean sheets. In 34 games where we did concede, we let in 70. That was an appalling record, which needed urgent improvement, so we sold our best centre back (McGuinness).

However, one messageboard regular reckoned Warnock would have them keeping clean sheets in 2 weeks

In his prime, Neil Warnock would have transformed defenders like Fish, Bagan, Darland, or Goutis into a more cohesive unit. He would likely have deployed traditional full-backs in defence and utilised wingers in their natural positions. If we had a Warnock from five or six years ago, our safety in the league would be assured by now. However, some might then complain about the direct style of play, preferring a more possession-based approach, even if it leads to losses, huge goals against and relegation.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Judge a Manager over a season not ignore the good part and only look at the bad part, 12th is in the top half and the 22nd is in the relegation zone.

I said it's better to keep Bulut, because I didn't trust the morons running the club to pick another YTS apprentice and I was correct to be worried.

You wanted your man, Omer, look where that got us

All but relegated with a much better squad

Riza isn't my man, stop inventing shit as usual.

However, it is unquestionable that he's done a better job than the guy you wanted here for 2 years.

Might I suggest going on Mastermind - specialist subject: Talking shite.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

In his prime, Neil Warnock would have transformed defenders like Fish, Bagan, Darland, or Goutis into a more cohesive unit. He would likely have deployed traditional full-backs in defence and utilised wingers in their natural positions. If we had a Warnock from five or six years ago, our safety in the league would be assured by now. However, some might then complain about the direct style of play, preferring a more possession-based approach, even if it leads to losses, huge goals against and relegation.

So you're backtracking from your claim he'd do it in 2 weeks?

[North Cardiff Blue]

If we judge Riza on what he's done this season we would be 16th.

how much better than that is our squad?

Loads better, you've taken out the toughest run of games in the season, Sunderland, Burnley away, Swansea away, Boro, Derby away, Leeds, we'd still have been 22nd if he had those games.

[North Cardiff Blue]

So you're backtracking from your claim he'd do it in 2 weeks?

I reckon he would yes, he did it with most teams he took over around that time you said.

The point is he would have improved us very quickly and got us out of this mess like he did when he came here last time and got promoted the following season.

Your man Riza is more likely to get us relegated two years in a row.

If you think Riza compares favourably with a Warnock in his prime, you should stick to knitting and stop wasting people's time on here that want to discuss football and our relegation fight.