Latest British Social Survey finds 52% of the Country are non Religious

[lisvaneblue]

Re: Latest British Social Survey finds 52% of the Country are non Religious

The facts are that:

1. The first five books of the Bible and which represent the Torah were supposedly written by Moses.
2. There is no evidence that Moses existed
3. There is no evidence that if he existed that he spoke to 'God'
4. There is no evidence of such dialogue being recorded.

The whole concept of Abrahamist religions are based on the supposed works of one mythical person and there is nothing resembling an audit trail of any description. However, catch people when they are young, indoctrinate them and they swallow it whole. And most believers have little idea how so-called Holy Books have been compiled, sifted, edited and changed through the centuries. And that's precisely why religions are subject to endless and deep schisms even under the Abrahamist umbrella.

Golfer Blue's comments related to the book of John, in the New Testament. Your reply relates to Moses and I do not see the connection other than an implication that the Torah may be false so the rest of the bible is the same.

Thomas had the same problem as you 2000 years ago.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: Latest British Social Survey finds 52% of the Country are non Religious

Golfer Blue's comments related to the book of John, in the New Testament. Your reply relates to Moses and I do not see the connection other than an implication that the Torah may be false so the rest of the bible is the same.

Thomas had the same problem as you 2000 years ago.

I had asked a question about Moses several times in this thread and it went unanswered. As Moses is one of the most important pillars of the story in Abrahamist religions it is perfectly logical to seriously analyse things assigned to him and which adherents believe in. It seems to be the case of a possibly mythical person supposedly carrying God's word to the masses so I think the subject deserves more respect than referring to another possibly mythical person mentioned in the same tome.

[Gofer Blue]

Re: Latest British Social Survey finds 52% of the Country are non Religious

Golfer Blue's comments related to the book of John, in the New Testament. Your reply relates to Moses and I do not see the connection other than an implication that the Torah may be false so the rest of the bible is the same.

Thomas had the same problem as you 2000 years ago.

There is no point in any further discussion with those who believe (note: I use the word believe with a touch of irony here) that the Bible is a complete book of fiction because they cannot/will not accept it as a reference source. My faith is based on Jesus not on Moses and there is evidence other than that in the Bible that he existed. The standard response to that is ok, there may have been an historical Jesus but he was just a bloke, he didn't say most, if not all, the things he is supposed to have said, did not perform any miracles and certainly did not rise from the dead. Oh, and that I must have been brain washed as a child.

In reality by my late teens I had rejected Christianity because I believed science had all the answers (I studied the three sciences at A level and then a science degree). I became a Christian about 20 years later when I guess I finally realised that science does not have all the answers after all!

[Bluebirdman Of Alcathays]

Re: Latest British Social Survey finds 52% of the Country are non Religious

There is no point in any further discussion with those who believe (note: I use the word believe with a touch of irony here) that the Bible is a complete book of fiction because they cannot/will not accept it as a reference source. My faith is based on Jesus not on Moses and there is evidence other than that in the Bible that he existed. The standard response to that is ok, there may have been an historical Jesus but he was just a bloke, he didn't say most, if not all, the things he is supposed to have said, did not perform any miracles and certainly did not rise from the dead. Oh, and that I must have been brain washed as a child.

In reality by my late teens I had rejected Christianity because I believed science had all the answers (I studied the three sciences at A level and then a science degree). I became a Christian about 20 years later when I guess I finally realised that science does not have all the answers after all!

Perhaps science doesn't have all the answers but it might, given time, and if it doesn't find them that might be down to our limitations as a species.

Do you think Jesus rose from the dead? Do you believe the miracles are true? To be honest, this is the stuff that confounds me. I can understand the notion of God because it's an answer to the big questions but the Jesus story seems (to me) to be marketing for said notion.

In an earlier post you asked why would John (of gospel fame) fictionalise anything - people like fiction and fancy narratives, don't they? Put a bit of water walking and defeating death in and you've got yourself a best seller.

[Baloo]

Re: Latest British Social Survey finds 52% of the Country are non Religious

Finally even if you are convinced that the whole thing is a complete cock and bull story, what is so wrong with the underlying sentiments of Jesus as recorded in the books of John and James, like love one another as I have loved you, love your neighbour as yourself, faith without works is dead etc? No-one can argue surely that these traits are desperately needed in the world today?

Yes, but many of these ideas were imported from the classical ethical tradition preceding Christianity. So it’s possible to try and live a good life following them without any real need to also include the supernatural.

[UNDERHILL1927]

Re: Latest British Social Survey finds 52% of the Country are non Religious

Religion summed up for me.... Tyson Fury, God will give me the victory, Deontay Wilder, God will give me the victory......... Fury wins, God gave me the victory, Wilder loses, God was teaching me a lesson....... God loves boxing, doesn't seem to care for children with cancer.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: Latest British Social Survey finds 52% of the Country are non Religious

There is no point in any further discussion with those who believe (note: I use the word believe with a touch of irony here) that the Bible is a complete book of fiction because they cannot/will not accept it as a reference source. My faith is based on Jesus not on Moses and there is evidence other than that in the Bible that he existed. The standard response to that is ok, there may have been an historical Jesus but he was just a bloke, he didn't say most, if not all, the things he is supposed to have said, did not perform any miracles and certainly did not rise from the dead. Oh, and that I must have been brain washed as a child.

In reality by my late teens I had rejected Christianity because I believed science had all the answers (I studied the three sciences at A level and then a science degree). I became a Christian about 20 years later when I guess I finally after all!

Regarding your last sentence: science means knowledge. No-one in their right mind thinks that we yet have perfect knowledge of all things. Our knowledge is built on trial and error along with evidence. On the other hand, ancient religions that have little or no evidence may explain the creation of the universe whereas people at the time didn't understand electricity, microbes or a million other things that we have subsequently learned about.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: Latest British Social Survey finds 52% of the Country are non Religious

I had asked a question about Moses several times in this thread and it went unanswered. As Moses is one of the most important pillars of the story in Abrahamist religions it is perfectly logical to seriously analyse things assigned to him and which adherents believe in. It seems to be the case of a possibly mythical person supposedly carrying God's word to the masses so I think the subject deserves more respect than referring to another possibly mythical person mentioned in the same tome.

Looks like no-one is going to provide any evidence of God's words passed onto Moses, including the book of Genesis and the talking snake.
Surely, the veracity of what are meant to be God's words represents the basis of all that followed in various Abrahamist holy books.

[truthpaste]

Re: Latest British Social Survey finds 52% of the Country are non Religious

Perhaps science doesn't have all the answers but it might, given time, and if it doesn't find them that might be down to our limitations as a species.

Do you think Jesus rose from the dead? Do you believe the miracles are true? To be honest, this is the stuff that confounds me. I can understand the notion of God because it's an answer to the big questions but the Jesus story seems (to me) to be marketing for said notion.

In an earlier post you asked why would John (of gospel fame) fictionalise anything - people like fiction and fancy narratives, don't they? Put a bit of water walking and defeating death in and you've got yourself a best seller.

Have you seriously looked into the evidence OUTSIDE the Bible re the bodily Resurrection of Christ?

[Bluebirdman Of Alcathays]

Re: Latest British Social Survey finds 52% of the Country are non Religious

Have you seriously looked into the evidence OUTSIDE the Bible re the bodily Resurrection of Christ?

Only my (admittedly layman's) understanding of biology. Perhaps he was unconscious/presumed dead after his crucifixion, and spluttered into life a couple of days later before succumbing to his injuries/ascending to heaven, but then he wouldn't be dead and therefore not rising from the dead, and that's not as enticing a tale.

I had a google though and have bookmarked a couple of articles to look at later but even in a cursory search one sees there are a number of theories and doubts about the resurrection story alone. I suspect it would just come down to wanting to believe, wanting a faith, and that's fine if that's what people are looking for for themselves, but all that does is return to my question of why seek a faith in the first place.

[Gofer Blue]

Re: Latest British Social Survey finds 52% of the Country are non Religious

Only my (admittedly layman's) understanding of biology. Perhaps he was unconscious/presumed dead after his crucifixion, and spluttered into life a couple of days later before succumbing to his injuries/ascending to heaven, but then he wouldn't be dead and therefore not rising from the dead, and that's not as enticing a tale.

I had a google though and have bookmarked a couple of articles to look at later but even in a cursory search one sees there are a number of theories and doubts about the resurrection story alone. I suspect it would just come down to wanting to believe, wanting a faith, and that's fine if that's what people are looking for for themselves, but all that does is return to my question of why seek a faith in the first place.

Have a read of "Who moved the stone" by Frank Morrison. IIRC he covers the "swoon" theory pretty well, as well as other similar theories like Jesus had an identical twin brother who was happily crucified in his place.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Latest British Social Survey finds 52% of the Country are non Religious

In over 5 decades of having an interest in matters of fauth, I can only recall members of one group taking such violent and deadly actions. Unfortunately their understanding of their own prophecies means that many of them believe that they can personally accelerate the end-time events by bringing about such world instability.
In contrast those who read and understand Biblical Prophecy know that God is alone in control of all such future events and their timing on the world stage.

Well if god is in control of future events then he's either very mean or forgets

Only someone very mean would allow hitler to try and slaughter half of Europe

Either he's mean or he can't control future events 🤷

[gabbsthenewt]

Re: Latest British Social Survey finds 52% of the Country are non Religious

Well if god is in control of future events then he's either very mean or forgets

Only someone very mean would allow hitler to try and slaughter half of Europe

Either he's mean or he can't control future events 🤷

Which one are we talking about tho? Allah or Joe Pesci?

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: Latest British Social Survey finds 52% of the Country are non Religious

Looks like no-one is going to provide any evidence of God's words passed onto Moses, including the book of Genesis and the talking snake.
Surely, the veracity of what are meant to be God's words represents the basis of all that followed in various Abrahamist holy books.

Still no takers on the Moses front.....

[splott parker]

Re: Latest British Social Survey finds 52% of the Country are non Religious

Still no takers on the Moses front.....

Crikey.......