Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
We have the world we have because of organised religion .....point 1..........not because we have ignored the teachings of Jesus etc etc

Point 2 .....the teachings of Jesus are just reasonable ways to live , people's of lots of backgrounds all over the centuries have either lived badly or somewhere in the middle or like complete tossers .....plenty of people who live as Christians die young through the actions of others or in accidents that if God existed he would have seen coming and thought blimey Trevor is going to be hit by flying masonry next week in the storm , I will make sure he stays in the house .....but he doesn't

He doesn't exist

God brings comfort then that's fine but quoting stories saying oh he said this and he said that on the way to the temple and the way that possible conversation was interpretation a few hundred years later means that people's lives are actually shaped by all this hearsay ?


And the Jews are the chosen ones ?

And this land is theirs oh no its not its ours !

The sooner humanity kicks all this into touch the better

If someone wants to argue religion is not at the core of the Israeli Arab conflict I know a good psychiatrist
I found this quote on the Internet which I think is a good summary:

“Instead of debating the fate of those who have never heard, we as Christians should be doing our best to make sure they do hear. We are called to spread the gospel throughout the nations (Matthew 28:19-20; Acts 1:8). We know people reject the knowledge of God revealed in nature, and that must motivate us to proclaim the good news of salvation through Jesus Christ. Only by accepting God’s grace through the Lord Jesus Christ can people be saved from their sins and rescued from an eternity apart from God”.

I freely admit that I am not a particularly good evangelist but if challenged about Christianity I will do my best to respond.

There is a Christian charity called the Wycliffe Bible Translators whose sole purpose it is, is to translate the Bible into every language. They say that 1 in 5 of the world's population have not heard the Gospels in their own language so they have quite a task on their hands. I am surprised that in this day and age there are so many people to reach.

The Bible acknowledges the issue you raise: “And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.” (Matthew 24:14). This means everyone will have a chance to hear the gospels and have the opportunity to accept or reject it. At the end of the day I am not God so (thankfully) it is not my job to judge people!

I can't help feeling that the fact you grew up in a Catholic environment has coloured your understanding of Christianity. Martin Luther, along with many other reformers, recognized that the Roman Catholic doctrine of “temporal and spiritual orders” (most commonly known to us as “Clergy and laity”) was not biblically accurate. In fact, for the most part it was man-made. They essentially believed that common believers were not capable of fulfilling the duties that the clergy were called to so they created this great distinction between the two. Instead of an equal playing field where every believer participated in the priestly duties, the Roman Catholic church created a hierarchy in the church. The trained professionals ruled over the common untrained people. This distinction was largely non-existent prior to the fourth century. (Some historians claim there were traces of it just prior to Constantine). We all know what happened with this unbiblical dispensing of power!

You may (or may not!) care to know that I no longer attend an established church. Instead as a group of like minded Christians we meet in our own homes just as the early church did back in the 1st century A.D. There is no hierarchy, we are all equal in the sight of God.

Finally, I do not deny that religion is the primary cause of the Israeli/Arab conflict. I rather think you mean here the Jewish and Islamic religions in particular – I don't believe there are many jihadist or “eye-for-an-eye” gun-toting Christians involved there do you?

I'm sure Jesus weeps over the whole situation as he did when speaking of Jerusalem all those years ago: “As he came near and saw the city, he wept over it, saying, “If you, even you, had only recognized on this day the things that make for peace! But now they are hidden from your eyes.” Luke 19:41-42 .

Fast forward 2000 years...mankind has learned nothing but we still have the free will to carry on, on our own sweet way.